IGN TOP 100

[Judge Hades]

Yeah, really.

 

Once it comes to the PC you will see. It has the lead from Firefly/Serenity, Nathan Fillon, so it is already superior to KotOR 1. Also there is no Carth-like NPC in the game. The closest is Skye but for the most part he is actually useful, and there is a proper romance option with him... for both male and female characters.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Plano Skywalker]

All told, I think Jade Empire probably is a better product than KOTOR...it's just that KOTOR and KOTOR II feel "fresh" because it is a space setting. You feel like you have a lot more control than you really do because you are navigating to so many different worlds (and making light speed jumps, etc), you have cargo in hold (certain side quests), etc. It feels like you have more control.

 

And Jade Empire, when it gets right down to it, is really just another medieval fantasy game, only with an Oriental twist and with twitch combat. KOTOR is not a medieval fantasy game, thus making it a bit different than the standard fare.

[Judge Hades]

Star Wars is a is not a medieval fantasy game. It is a space fantasy game.

[alanschu]

This just seems like a thread created to start arguments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a thread made about completely arbitrary value judgements (an IGN list) Argument comes naturally to it. You might as well start a "vanilla is better than chocolate" thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I was more referring to Volo's rather tenacious reiterations of how much better JE is than the games he has listed. He's gone on about it numerous times before, and it seemed like this thread was just an excuse to start it up again, while falling back on the veil that it's a discussion about IGN's list.

Edited October 17, 2006 by alanschu

[Judge Hades]

And you fell for it. So what?

Edited October 17, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Slowtrain]

If Jagged Alliance 2 isn't number one then the knowledge of the listmakers is obviously called into a great deal of question, making all other arguments moot.

[Judge Hades]

Of course Fallout 1 needs to be in the number one spot. Best game of all time, hands down. I have heard good things about Jagged Alliance 2. I still need to play that game.

[Pidesco]

You're all underestimating the power of Samantha Fox's Strip Poker.

[Slowtrain]

Of course Fallout 1 needs to be in the number one spot.  Best game of all time, hands down.  I have heard good things about Jagged Alliance 2.  I still need to play that game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

FO 1 should be number 2. but I could live with it the other way as well.

 

 

You're all underestimating the power of Samantha Fox's Strip Poker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Black Powder Deer Hunting ftw!

Edited October 17, 2006 by CrashGirl

[Judge Hades]

Damn that Samantha Fox! DAMN HER TO SLAHITHER!

[Dark_Raven]

Deer Hunter. Lovely games.

[Volourn]

"I was more referring to Volo's rather tenacious reiterations of how much better JE is than the games he has listed. He's gone on about it numerous times before, and it seemed like this thread was just an excuse to start it up again, while falling back on the veil that it's a discussion about IGN's list."

 

False. The thread is exactly what it is. It's about the IGN Top 100. Just like anyone else, I have my opinions on the list. I gave them. Just like others have given theirs. I think the problem here is certain people don't like it when a different opinion is shared so they cry about it espicially if it's my opinion.

 

P.S. JE > KOTOR

[Pop]

Uh, you could have made your opinion a little more clear.

 

"JE (#43) was deservedly placed ahead of the pathetic Oblivion (#57), and the good but heavily flawed KOTOR2 (#87)."

 

Without a caveat in place, that reads as an "it is the case that" statement, which concerns fact, not opinion. Put in an "IMO" next time, or an "IMHO", if you swing that way.

[Gorth]

If Lords of Midnight or Midwinter aren't on the top 10, then the list is obviously flawed

 

And yeah, Fallout and JA2 definitely belongs in the top 10 too >_

 

Took me a google search to realise that it wasn't on the main ign website. Only fun thing to read on the front page there was, that Uwe Boll is going to direct Far Cry, the movie (w00t)

[Volourn]

"Put in an "IMO" next time, or an "IMHO", if you swing that way."

 

NO!

 

If you couldn't tell it was an opinion then that's your loss; not mine. It should be beyond OBVIOUS that it was opinion.

 

NEWSFLASH: Whenever someone favors one game over another it is ALWAYS an OPINION. ALWAYS.

[Pop]

"Put in an "IMO" next time, or an "IMHO", if you swing that way."

 

NO!

 

If you couldn't tell it was an opinion then that's your loss; not mine. It should be beyond OBVIOUS that it was opinion.

 

NEWSFLASH: Whenever someone favors one game over another it is ALWAYS an OPINION. ALWAYS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your logic is ****ed.

 

If "Jade Empire is better than KOTOR" = "I believe it is the case that Jade Empire is better than KOTOR", than it would impossible to disagree with you, and you would always be right anytime you ever said anything, because everything you said would be statements of what you believe, and I can't argue that you don't believe what you say. By that same logic, I could say "KOTOR is better than Jade Empire", and we would both be right, and that's a huge contradiction, because KOTOR and Jade Empire would be the best game, and they can't both objectively be the best game. There would be no objective facts about the case, and no standards by which to judge games. JE would be equivalent to the NWN OC, and the ET Atari game would be equivalent to Final Fantasy 7. Thus, by saying you're simply stating your opinion, you're saying that you're not saying anything at all, and I can completely dismiss you. Thus, your opinion argument is total ****.

 

This is why subjectivism doesn't work.

[alanschu]

False. The thread is exactly what it is. It's about the IGN Top 100. Just like anyone else, I have my opinions on the list. I gave them. Just like others have given theirs. I think the problem here is certain people don't like it when a different opinion is shared so they cry about it espicially if it's my opinion.

 

P.S. JE > KOTOR

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No it's not, it's just you finding support for your position that JE is better than other games that people have argued with you about on this forum.

 

It's funny that you have opinions on the list, yet only talk about how 1 game did relative to two games you have argued with people on this forum about.

 

And it's not that people don't like it when a different opinion is shared (you could certainly toss yourself into that category, given your previous fanatical defenses of Jade Empire), it's that people don't like it when someone continuously restates that same opinion multiple times. Which you have done in your repeated discussions of Jade Empire. We get it, you like the game.

[angshuman]

[alanschu]

I hope you brought enough for me!

 

EDIT: How did that emoticon miss the nominations?!?!

Edited October 18, 2006 by alanschu

[Plano Skywalker]

what holds Jade Empire back a bit is that it is a new franchise with nothing but itself to draw upon. KOTOR and games in the D&D universe have a built-in advantage as they have well-established franchises to draw audiences in...and plenty of cliches to throw around once you get there.

 

if the Jade Empire franchise continues (which I hope it does), it will develop its own lore and cliches, etc that will draw people in for future titles. it appears that it was successful enough for a sequel, though, and that is a good thing.

 

Mass Effect will not have this problem, I suspect, because, even though it is a new IP, it offers a space RPG experience that no one can even come close to.

[Tigranes]

Jade Empire's merits as a single work has no bearing on that. An original work is itself a source of offshoots and intertextual works. FFVII spawned a monstrous army of fanfics, fan-etcs, spinoffs, movies, etc, etc, in an effort to expand a universe that people wanted more of.

 

Personally, I felt that aesthetically JE had an interesting universe (despite my not liking the game), but despite all its 'oriental' roots it was constructed really in the same way as normal High Fantasy. Volourn may disagree.

[Plano Skywalker]

but despite all its 'oriental' roots it was constructed really in the same way as normal High Fantasy. Volourn may disagree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well, Diablo-style High Fantasy, yes....undead creatures and beings from the Otherworld but not much in the way of Goblins and the like...which is fine, don't get me wrong but, indeed, it is a High Fantasy game.

 

I think what it is missing is the lack of roaming opportunities....the presentation was very linear, very Yellow Brick Road-ish. I'm thinking if future games have more of a "free-roam" element, that will help a lot.

 

also, lack of party-based combat (while a bold move), probably drove many away.

[Tigranes]

No, no. I mean the philosophies behind the game, or the ideas, or the way people behaved, and so forth, was still very much high fantasy. It was high fantasy with aesthetic and stylistic differences in terms of buildings, clothes, etc, then drawing a bit from oriental myth especially for creatures but.. that was about it. The epistemology, as to be expected, was the same. The High Dragon King Emperor Whatever was pretty much the same as the Grand Lord Imperator Baron Etc-Man.

 

Which would have been fine I suppose, if it was done well, but what makes JE stand out? I really struggle to remember.

 

(cue Volo with mountains of evidence.. uh.. opinion.)

[kirottu]

This was one of my problems as well with JE. It

[Volourn]

"I like to play mage characters"

 

JE wasn't a D&D type game. You are thinking in that archetype of game. Everyone should have realized going in that while JE *is* a role-playing game (depsite the RT combat) that there would be limits (like 99% of RPGs) and that you would be 'forced' to role-play some sort of martial artist. That said, you could effectively play a mage if you so wished though some battles would have forced you to chnage it up a bit (just like some enemies in D&D are also immune to spells).

 

Tigranes; I kinda agree that JE did have a lot of high fantasy elements to it. Then again, I didn't think BIO made it a secret that it would share similarities to that tpe of game. It also had differences as well.

 

 

"think what it is missing is the lack of roaming opportunities....the presentation was very linear, very Yellow Brick Road-ish. I'm thinking if future games have more of a "free-roam" element, that will help a lot."

 

Yeah. They wasted their pretty world map, imo. It wa slinear in that way; but the role-playing chocies and multiple ways to complete quests made up for that, imo.

 

 

P.S. JE > KOTOR

Edited October 18, 2006 by Volourn