HL2 Episode 2 Delayed until Feb 2007

[alanschu]

Who knows what they're up to with Ep2? They also include TF2 and Portal, what if I don't want those? Would I get a cheaper package without that mini-game crap?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Given their digital distribution package, I wouldn't be surprised.

[Musopticon?]

I'd play Half Life 3 with HL2-graohics if it was less like a pipe with lotsa triggers. Half-life 2 was an awesome rolleccoaster ride, but I doubt I'll buy a rehash with better graphics in 3 years. Gameplay gots to improve, you know.

 

And have some emergent gameplay. There's never enough emergent gameplay or body awareness or open-endedness.

[Pidesco]

I'd play Half Life 3 with HL2-graohics if it was less like a pipe with lotsa triggers. Half-life 2 was an awesome rolleccoaster ride, but I doubt I'll buy a rehash with better graphics in 3 years. Gameplay gots to improve, you know.

 

And have some emergent gameplay. There's never enough emergent gameplay or body awareness or open-endedness.

 

Newell hates that. He thinks games should be linear, with as little options for the player as possible. Streamlined is the hype word.

 

Go him. <_>

[alanschu]

Really? I don't remember hearing him say anything like that.

[Musopticon?]

Wait, I forgot streamlining. Add that in too.

 

And awesome to the max, needs more of that too.

[Pidesco]

Really?  I don't remember hearing him say anything like that.

 

Gabe Newell: What we try to do is get people through as much entertainment as possible. This is an argument I have with Warren Spector; he builds a game that you can play through six different times. So that means that people pay for the game, but don't get to play five sixths of the game, which I feel is a mistake. You spend all of this time to build stuff that most players will never ever ever see, and I feel we try to maximise... I mean, I understand the exploration impulse and we try to make people happy doing that because it's an important part. Exposition, exploration, combat and so on are things that we need to make sure are present, but if only one per cent of your customers see this cool thing that takes five per cent of your development budget, that's not a good use of resources.

 

Robin Walker: Playtesting drives a lot of this. Often, you'll watch a playtest and something incredibly cool happens, and the first question you ask afterwards is how can we make sure all of our customers see that? They'll say 'the gunship nearly crashed on me when I shot it down and I had to jump to the side to dodge it and that was incredibly cool'. How can we make sure that happens to almost everyone?

 

From here.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Pidesco

[Calax]

honestly I don't quite see how they could make half life into a open ended game like Deus Ex (just for example). I mean the game gives you a VERY VERY Defined objective and says DO IT! while pushing you along a certain line.

 

It just wouldn't work for me to see Gordon freeman all of a sudden hop out of the sewers and decide to pull off a front aussalt on the citidel with all it's defenses and survive intact.

[Pidesco]

And you've just defined the lameness of Half-Life. And th storyline is only good compared to FPSes who had the whole story explained in the readme so you're left with precisely squat plus a few cool technical innovations.

 

Anyway, the real problem is that you can expect about zero game design innovation from any future Valve games.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Pidesco

[Calax]

And you've just defined the lameness of Half-Life. And th storyline is only good compared to FPSes who had the whole story explained in the readme so you're left with precisely squat plus a few cool technical innovations.

 

Anyway, the real problem is that you can expect about zero game design innovation from any future Valve games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...

 

Making portals is zero design innovation?

[Bokishi]

Yeah it is, they ripped off Prey, but in a fun way that I'd like to play it.

[alanschu]

I'd put linearity way down on a list of what makes a story lame.

[Llyranor]

The correct answer is generic Bioware writing!

[Morgoth]

Valve is on the way losing their FPS crown if they keep continuing making those silly little puzzle games!

If now Monolith throws out a Shogo2 and NOLF3, they're my personal kings of teh FPS genre! Nobody matches their coolness when it comes to FPS! :cool:

[Musopticon?]

Shogo2 and NOLF3

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pidesco]

I'd put linearity way down on a list of what makes a story lame.

 

 

Linearity doesn't make a story lame. But if you make a game completely linear for the sake of the story, and then, go ahead and write a crap story anyway, then what's the point of the linearity?

[alanschu]

Meh. Half-Life knocked my pants off, and so did Half-Life 2. I didn't mind the story in either one of them, and I certainly didn't mind the atmosphere and environments.

[Pidesco]

Ok, so I'm exagerating a little bit about the crappiness of Half-Life's story. :">

 

Still, it's just a meh kind of story that does the job of keeping the game going forward. Which is all you ever do in the game, by the way: go forward and kill the baddies. It's Quake single-player with AI.

[angshuman]

Well, the good thing is, the game's not pretentious. It doesn't have a very solid story, but it never really tries to shove a seemingly-heavy but actually shoddy story down your throat. The storytelling is fairly mild (at least compared to RPGs etc.) and it fits in well with the gameplay. The overall package is very pleasing, and the feeling of adventure that I got from both HL1 and HL2 was something I couldn't find in any other FPS. A rollercoaster ride indeed; and I didn't for a second miss the lack of open-endedness.

[metadigital]

I think you're all dancing around the definition of FUN. If there were a way to define it in a couple of sentences, then the publishers would have bottled it and sold it en masse by now.

 

[Calax]

Ok, so I'm exagerating a little bit about the crappiness of Half-Life's story.  :">

 

Still, it's just a meh kind of story that does the job of keeping the game going forward. Which is all you ever do in the game, by the way: go forward and kill the baddies. It's Quake single-player with AI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

isn't that the point of every single FPS?

 

I mean you look at any FPS that's not an attempt (good or bad) at being a hyrbid and the only nonlinear stuff is getting from A-B via C, D, E, or F.

[metadigital]

D-Day: when we go from Omaha Beach to Berlin!

[Pidesco]

Ok, so I'm exagerating a little bit about the crappiness of Half-Life's story.  :">

 

Still, it's just a meh kind of story that does the job of keeping the game going forward. Which is all you ever do in the game, by the way: go forward and kill the baddies. It's Quake single-player with AI.

isn't that the point of every single FPS?

 

I mean you look at any FPS that's not an attempt (good or bad) at being a hyrbid and the only nonlinear stuff is getting from A-B via C, D, E, or F.

 

My question about Half-Life is: what C, D, E, or F? I guess some levels had a C and a D. Arguably.

 

NOLF for example is a straightforward, mostly linear FPS, which allows for different choices both due to map designs and core gameplay.

[alanschu]

I don't really recall any different choices in NOLF. It's been a long time since I played the game though.

 

Both were excellent games though.

[Pidesco]

To the best of my knowledge it wasn't possible to play through Half-Life without killing your enemies, or am I wrong?

 

This completely besides the point, but the tricycle chase scene in NOLF2 is the best vehicle scene in any game. Ever.

[alanschu]

Actually, you probably could get through large parts of the game without ever killing a creature. Some parts would just be really, really tough.

 

Though I don't typically consider the sneaking around in NOLF to really be all that derivative from shooting people like crazy. It's sneaking was more akin to GoldenEye sneaking around IMO.

 

The tricycle chase scene was definitely one of the most bizarre scenes I ever had the pleasure of participating in.

 

The mimes in general, as well as a lot of the banter was great. The problem I found though, was that if I stuck around to listen to the banter (which I always did), then my best opportunity to sneak past unscathed ends up passing me by (since the guards return to their patrol routes rather than standing around). I typically just used the sneaking around to get kills without alerting the whole world.

 

 

Though I doubt it's possible to get through NOLF without killing anyone either. Even Deus Ex requires you to kill I think 3 people.

Edited August 30, 2006 by alanschu