Shameless Firefly Fan

[metadigital]

I liked Serenity, and only heard about Firefly because of Serenity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ditto. And I only watched Firefly after Serenity.

 

Same for my non-geek friend, who thought the film was terrific and still hasn't watched the series (though he bought it).

 

I think Serenity gave the SF film a fillip, much as the orginal Star Wars changed the general public's opinion of SF in general (oh, it can be just Space Opera! with the "technology" just magic bits to impel the plot); so too the whole re-focusing of extra-solar exploration paradigmatically with previous forays by individuals into uncivilized and dangerous wilds / badlands (the US after the civil war, for example, but also many others) gives new purpose and (more importantly) new meaning to the old tales of space travel. It is easy to die in the middle of the ocean from a lack of water, after all.

 

Now SF doesn't have to be robots and lasers doing the deus ex machina denoument, it can be regular fiction with regular characters dealing with an unfamiliar (to us) reality: "You live on a space ship, dear."

[kalimeeri]

I think that the Operative's journey was meant to mirror Book's own. In OIS, what River overhears is apparently Book's response to a person pleading to be spared. If that incident is still on his mind, it was likely his 'Serenity Valley'--the moment when his belief was destroyed.

 

Book managed to save himself by finding another kind of faith, and by going to ground in a monastery for many years. While the Operative suggests that he might not be so fortunate, I think there are possibilities for that character (with his new outlook) if he manages to return to the core worlds. Not exactly as an ally--he would certainly have his own agenda--but as someone who is able to access top secret information (about other Operatives and Parliament plans) and one who has some respect for Mal.

[Dark_Raven]

I liked Serenity, and only heard about Firefly because of Serenity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here. I bought the DVD, watched it and it seemed like there was more going on than what was shown. Than I watched the extras that came with it and found out it was based off the tv series Firefly.

[Walsingham]

I really genuinely don't understand what you thought was so forgettable about Serenity, especially given Hades apt reminder concerning so many recent sci-fi films with pod all in their favour.

 

You had a raft of characters. Some with a few twists and curves.

 

You had plenty of chases, explosions, and fights involving weapons from sword to lasers.

 

You had screaming wild barbarians.

 

You had a surprisingly interesting bad guy who believed he was good. Indeed who some would still say was good.

 

You had some first class special effects.

 

A story that was easy to follow, but had a couple of minor twists.

 

So we can debate first place for film of 2005, but completely forgettable? :D

[metadigital]

It won the award for the BBC's Film of 2005, too.

[Fionavar]

Could have been a senator too, who knows.

 

Yeah - but that would lose the uber-cool factor Seriously though, his comfort with weaponry and such makes me suspect the operative aspect, but I'd not put it past the realm of possibility that he could be a Senator.

 

I think that the Operative's journey was meant to mirror Book's own.  In OIS, what River overhears is apparently Book's response to a person pleading to be spared.  If that incident is still on his mind, it was likely his 'Serenity Valley'--the moment when his belief was destroyed.

 

That sounds both plausible and really very exciting. The depth implied would again be an affirmation of the potential of the series. I continue to wrestle - especially with the insights in this thread - that FF works better as a series than a film franchise. Not that I do not appreciate the film aspect, but the series inherently possesses much more depth for an ensemble piece (as Gromnir observed about some of the shortcomings of the film). That having been said, a balance between the two would be wonderful! Babylon 5 demonstrated some paradigm shift in that regard - 5 made for tv movies if I recall? The possibility is definitely there.

[mr insomniac]

Not within 160 km! We have something called a Movie Gallery' I may check ... well should check.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sounds like where i live <_<

 

great news about firefly though. unfortunately i was one of the many who didn't watch the show when it was actually on TV, but i get the movie and series on dvd recently. its great stuff, imho.

Edited July 19, 2006 by mr insomniac

[kalimeeri]

I continue to wrestle - especially with the insights in this thread - that FF works better as a series than a film franchise.

 

Slow and subtle plot/character development is a beauty to behold, but it can only be fully realized in a series, with a dedicated, gifted (and hungry) team. The downside is that over time the original crew gradually changes; the creative spark is lost; and the series begins looking for a shark to jump. (IMO the new Battlestar Galactica may be on the verge, although I hope not.) Watching the gradual disintegration, to me, is worse than ending prematurely on a high note. A movie is generally not prone to that illness ('original' does not apply to remakes!!--LOL).

 

Not saying I don't agree with you, just that I'd be happy with another two movies (which all of the Serenity actors already have signed contracts for) to wrap up the various storylines in a grand fashion.

[astr0creep]

What about a 4-5 hours miniseries on tv?

[Judge Hades]

That would be cool, or a direct to DVD movie like what Joss plans on doing with Spike.

[Fionavar]

Not saying I don't agree with you, just that I'd be happy with another two movies (which all of the Serenity actors already have signed contracts for) to wrap up the various storylines in a grand fashion.

 

Oh I definitely hear you. In fact that is why I feel the movie/series balance could address this. That Whedon has comfort with nixing characters could lead to a more thorough uni telling ... or better yet different stories in the same uni. The problem, of course, is the ST phenom that ends up motivated by its own propulsion w/o creativity - does that make sense?

 

What about a 4-5 hours miniseries on tv?

 

I think that's another tool in the box indeed. From what I understand over the pond in the UK, there are close ended story-lines that are like this rather than ongoing TV series. I think that would work really well, as a way to add pieces to the large potential of the FF uni.

 

That would be cool, or a direct to DVD movie like what Joss plans on doing with Spike.

 

And there Hades you have hit on my excitement about the FF fan-base. Though the documentary may not appeal to non-Geckling Brown Coats , the fact of the matter is it demonstrates - to me at least - that the whole entertainment paradigm is changing. Though there are a lot of fan made movies now, it is clear that commercial, wide-spread endeavours can utilise the net and be marketable. In fact, I'd love to see Whedon skip the whole network nightmare and direct to the user. I feel the sale of the DVDs warrants this consideration. The problem is how much intellectual copyright has he released to Fox and Universal? Of course, Fox or Universal could be leaders and do this with an invitation to Whedon if he no longer has intellectual ownership (which I suspect is the case ).

[Judge Hades]

The Spike movie isn't fan based work. It will have James Marsters and rumored to have Amy Acker and Alyssan Hannigan in thier respective roles. Alsoit is rumored that the BBC wants to do a 13 episode series with Anthony Stewart Head reprising his role as Giles called Ripper.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Fionavar]

Sorry Hades - I was not so much talking about fan-based movies for FF, as much as alluding to the fact that fan0based movies are already demonstrating that the net can work to distribute entertainment content that challenges the conventional distribution structure - does that make sense?

 

As for the BBC rumour - that's very cool. Do you have a link for that by chance?

[Judge Hades]

http://listing-index.ebay.com/movies/Rippe...elevision).html

 

Here is one link.

[Fionavar]

http://listing-index.ebay.com/movies/Rippe...elevision).html

 

Here is one link.

 

Thanks Hades - I have a few friends who will be most excited about this rumour.

[metadigital]

That would be cool, or a direct to DVD movie like what Joss plans on doing with Spike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And there Hades you have hit on my excitement about the FF fan-base. Though the documentary may not appeal to non-Geckling Brown Coats , the fact of the matter is it demonstrates - to me at least - that the whole entertainment paradigm is changing. Though there are a lot of fan made movies now, it is clear that commercial, wide-spread endeavours can utilise the net and be marketable. In fact, I'd love to see Whedon skip the whole network nightmare and direct to the user. I feel the sale of the DVDs warrants this consideration. The problem is how much intellectual copyright has he released to Fox and Universal? Of course, Fox or Universal could be leaders and do this with an invitation to Whedon if he no longer has intellectual ownership (which I suspect is the case ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see the plethora of NwN2 Community modules now ... ^_^

[Fionavar]

WOW - I never thought of that! That would be most interesting indeed ...

[metadigital]

Yeah, even if they don't actually MAKE a game from the IP (which I would think is a very possible), there is NOTHING to stop the fans making mods.

 

:Obligatory single emoticon expressing many emotions simultaneously, such as joy, poking fun, superciliousness, pride, and probably a dozen others ... :

[Dark_Raven]

Like WoW, so amazing.

[Gromnir]

I really genuinely don't understand what you thought was so forgettable about Serenity, especially given Hades apt reminder concerning so many recent sci-fi films with pod all in their favour.

 

You had a raft of characters. Some with a few twists and curves.

 

You had plenty of chases, explosions, and fights involving weapons from sword to lasers.

 

You had screaming wild barbarians.

 

You had a surprisingly interesting bad guy who believed he was good. Indeed who some would still say was good.

 

You had some first class special effects.

 

A story that was easy to follow, but had a couple of minor twists.

 

So we can debate first place for film of 2005, but completely forgettable?    :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

come now. if we goes on this point by point kinda basis, then serenity not even hold up well with the first crappy star wars film. episode one had better special effects. episode 1 had better any number of better performances including ewan and liam. episode 1 had much better fight scenes. etc.

 

episode 2 & 3 were better films, both in terms o' acting and visual impact. the first matrix film were better in almost every aspect than were serenity. ai will be recalled longer, if only 'cause o' being kubrick's last project... and 'cause that sixth sense kid really were excellent in it... and so too will spider man and spider man2 and xmen and x-men2 be recollected after serenity is forgotten. the iron giant and a host o' other films that typical gets the sci-fi grouping will all be 'membered, not the least of all 'cause they were all better films.

 

people recalls serenity now, 'cause it is fresh, but in five years it will be nothing more than an obscure trivia question.

 

we liked firefly, but if we is honest we cannot help but recognize that the firefly movie weren't nearly as good as some of the firefly episodes, and that alone should condemn it as a failure.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[metadigital]

It is possible in my overt desire to will a good SF film out of the ether, I may have over-looked some faults in Serenity, but I still don't think all those other films you mentioned were "better" [edit: with the notable exception of The Matrix]. Sure, they may have been better when measured by the checkboxes of Hollywood cinematic "blockbuster"; but I still think the underlying concept is a winner. And fresh.

 

And sure I am a little uncomfortable watching a teenage girl jumping around blithely as a mistress of violence (and therefore being associated with primal arousal): still it didn't arouse me, so I can simply say the film was "of its time" (as it is de rigueur to have ultraviolence and to sexualise young women, and sometimes both in the same character).

 

But that does have a plausible explanation (advanced "hot-housed" child taught to be a weapon), so I can let that slide. (I agree it seems that Mr Wheadon has an unhealthy fixation on young girls, though, based on his

Edited July 21, 2006 by metadigital

[Walsingham]

As usual, my learned colleague (meaning Meta) has summed it up better than I.

[Judge Hades]

First off we are talking about science fiction movies, Grommie and the Star Wars prequels were crap in comparison to Serenity. Spider Man movies and the X Men movies are not sci fi, but comic book movies. Not even in the same catagory.

 

Also what is this fixation of River and her violent tendacies. In the movie she got overly violent twice and the rest of the time she was well, nonviolent if not a little loopy. Besides in the second violent bit it was going back and forth with Mal's battle with the Operative.

[kalimeeri]

technology, culture, galacto-politics, and characters

 

If Sci-fi is ever to gain respect, it must progress beyond reliance on glitzy special effects and concept. It has to be accessible.

 

This is what makes the Firefly universe different. It's viewed from the perspective of 'ordinary' people just trying to survive, after a war that they may or may not have believed in.

 

Homogenization does not occur all at once; much like early pioneers, people left to their own devices to settle an outlying planet would tend to fall back on their own cultural past--whatever it might be.

 

It's fair to assume even in our own history that 'pioneers' were mostly comprised of people who were discontent or just plain desperate for a fresh start. They had no grand plans for assuming control/taking over the world; they only wanted to be left alone. If a fantasy or two came into the picture ("I always wanted to be a cowboy") it might be entirely possible within the realm of human behavior. That leap is not nearly as far as the most painstakingly drawn alien culture or alternate future.

 

Critically and objectively, there are flaws in any movie (or series, or book, or game, etc.). Serenity has a moment or two that jars, as do some of the Firefly episodes--but it's no worse than the others mentioned. I am willing to indulge JW his preference for a 90-pound superheroine, because what he did right is portray 3D characters, warts and all, without becoming melodramatic. That's something that Sci-fi (in particular) has been lacking. I can watch Neo/Luke or Anakin Skywalker/Wolfie in their fights or angst, but relate to them? Hardly. And it's refreshing to see JW's characters say more with one look than GL's did with 15 minutes of dialogue.

 

Granted, much of the characterization may have been done in the series. It's hard for me to judge Serenity on a standalone basis, having watched Firefly prior. But I would contend that it made the utmost of every minute of screentime, which is a rare bird in any genre these days.

[metadigital]

What was Nartwak's (old) signature ..? "Bad writing is about sex and violence, good literature is about love and war."

 

)