Exile's canonical gender confirmed!

[CoM_Solaufein]

The same reason why we have Bastila worshippers.

[GhostofAnakin]

The same reason why we have Bastila worshippers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The accent.

[Weaponmaster303]

Lol yeah the accent lol. I dunno but I dont see a problem with making it canon, well I would of had a problem with Revan being a chick since I could never get into the female version of the game and always quit after dantooine, just missed the whole bastila-revan thing, but female exile meh I finished the game and really didnt see any diff.

[Ulicus]

But like I've said, what the hell is the point of having a 'canon' Revan and a 'canon' Exile?

To have a single, consistent universe.

 

Sorry Sikon. That's bull. They could have had a single, consistant universe without clarifying it. All they had to do was gloss over that area of history in the databases, leave it at:

 

"Historical records of this time period have been lost"

 

And let people make up their own minds as to what "really happened".

 

I don't know exactly what happened in world history- but I don't doubt that there was only *one* timeline.

 

As I said in another post, both here, and over at Jedi Council Forums, if LucasFilm don't want ambigious characters, or ambigious endings, they shouldn't give us a choice in LucasArts published games.

 

I've been called anal over this, and I suppose I am - but honestly, had LucasFilm not been so anal themselves, then I'd not be angry at all would I?

 

Leland Chee said that the only reason they mess with these genders is to allow their authors to reference this characters at all - with correct pronouns.

 

Why do the authors *need* to reference the characters? It's w*nk. They don't *need* to - and there certainly didn't need to be a comic set in the KotOR timeframe - though it is good.

 

LucasFilm know that the KotOR era is more popular amongst casual Star Wars fans than any other, so they're milking it. That's their right, sure, but it still sucks.

 

And come on, a "strict" continuity? STRICT? Star Wars? It's a jumbled mess that retcons itself all the time. If it was truly *strict,* it would have abolished itself in the wake of the prequels and rebooted.

 

They should have kept all the stuff relating to KotOR *within the games*. Any references in other media would simply be:

 

"Historical records of this time are scattered and contradictory - there is even great debate amongst scholars as to whether "Darth Revan" was male or female"

 

Then they'd at least have shown some respect to the fans, for most of whom the appeal was playing an important part in Star Wars history as your *own* character.

 

Honestly, I'd have preferred it if all the KotOR stuff had been declared infinities and was therefore nothing to do with proper Star Wars continuity - which is a mess, despite the clever retcons - letting the developers do what they want within the setting.

 

Don't me wrong, I'll probably get just as excited as anyone else if Revan crops up in the KotOR comics - even if he's been given a canon appearance - but there will always be a part of me that is angry about the unnecessary clarifications.

 

Neccessary clarification = Kyle Katarn doesn't go dark in Dark Forces II, as if he did, all post RotJ continuity would go to hell

 

Unneccessary clarification = Revan/the Exile's gender/alignment. As both are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Ulicus

[Sikon]

If they want to explore that time period in detail, and there are a lot of signs that they do, they can't just say that "historical details were lost". Because in contemporary materials, it isn't history, it's modern age.

When saying "strict continuity", I didn't mean that the continuity is free from problems. There are inconsistencies, but if they didn't care about the continuity, they wouldn't retcon them at all. The retcons at least wrap it up and reduce the number of loose ends, and this is the right direction to take, even if they don't totally succeed in it. Inconsistencies here and there are inevitable due to the amount of existing material, but with the introduction of the Holocron, the problem was reduced.

So, if you don't like the fact that the genders were canonized,

go ahead. Call them about K1. Call them about K2. Do not hesitate. Tell them of the horrible, bloody crimes being committed in their backyard, which they have seen, yet somehow must be mistaken in their decisions. Tell them what fools they are for making that decision and how Star Wars historical accuracy has been ruined for you, sullied, dragged through the dirt. Tell them how it has crippled their reputation in your eyes for centuries, and how it has left a wound in the Force - a wound that echoes still. I think that only then will they see that what they have done is wrong... and that the balance in the Force must be rectified.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Sikon

[Jediphile]

Who is to say that when Visas, Disciple, Atton, Bao Dur and Mira (and probably Bastila eventually) restored the Order, presumably beginning on Telos they didn't encounter Brianna and train her as a Jedi?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why? Because as near as I can figure, Brianna is DEAD in the female Exile plot!

 

Note how Atris kills all the handmaidens. Now, if Brianna is still on the academy, then what does that mean? And do you see her when you return to the academy as the female Exile? No, you don't - look through all the rooms, if you want. You're not going to find her. The last you'll ever see her is the one place where you actually get to talk to her in the entire game as a female Exile.

 

Or are we going to presume that that Atris killed all the handmaidens sisters, but left precisely Brianna alive for some odd reason in the female Exile's story? Perhaps that will happen in order to not completely annoy people who actually cared a little about Brianna, such as myself, but honestly - that's some pretty bad storytelling, which is worse than seeing her dead IMHO

 

A curse on Leland Chee - may his car have flats on all tires and may he be barked at by a dog named Rover! LA hasn't considered these consequences one bit, I fear...

 

And why would the Exile's companions found an academy on Telos?

 

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If they going to do so, it is far more likely to be in a place where the jedi order has some reputation, such as Dantooine, or - even better - Coruscant.

 

Anyway, I don't mind her being female (and the book says heroine, so she would be light sided) but it adds a dimension to the Star Wars universe. Plus I liked the whole idea of Sion having some remotely sick love for the Exile, also Atris still claims to have loved the exile to some level after you redeem her in the duel. So I guess it adds another dimension again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't get that at all. I find Sion's "love" for the female Exile both sickening, inappropriate, uncompelling, and - worse - an unflattering add-on which is there only to mirror Atris' love for the male Exile, but which has no basis in the plot and it just splashed all over the plot very unattractively as an impolite afterthought. Yuck!

 

And Atris doesn't care as much for the female Exile as she did for the male Exile. If she had, then she would have sent Brianna to spy on the female Exile as well, and we all know that she didn't.

 

While I disliked Mical, I think he was right to make the Atton-Exile relationship more poignant. I think it was after I finished Onderon that I got a cut scene where Mical, Exile and Kreia were meditating, and Atton was standing watching. Then Mira came along and they had some discussion about it. I think Mical needed to be a goody-goody, someone that Kreia, the mother figure approves of (at the Trayus Core she says something like 'his love for you is pure') but if the Exile were to ultimately appreciate Atton, who really is a lost soul more it is more... I suppose Shakespearean.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't see that Atton was any more interesting in the female Exile's story than in the male's - he's a lost soul in either case, and I actually find his ruin to be more poignant without the romance option in the picture. Still, I might have felt different about it, if they hadn't cut the Sion/Atton or Disciple/Atton fights from the game.

 

But I must say that I don't understand why peole hate Mical so much. Yes, I find him rather annoying too, though mainly for the poor voice-acting. As for being a goodie-boy, he would have been far more interesting, if his own inablility to influence the Exile's decision to leave for the war had weighed upon him rather than listening to him preach to us all the time. But other than that, he's not a bad character, and he's not useless either - I frequently had him in my party once I turned him into a jedi, because his healing and meditation skills are very convenient. Yes, Mical has his voice and manners a bit against him, but I don't see why this makes people hate him quite that much...

[Sikon]

But was Brianna Atris' spy to begin with? And why do you presume that Atris kills the Handmaidens? Why should she?

By the way, good to see that there is a person who doesn't hate Disciple!

Edited July 5, 2006 by Sikon

[GhostofAnakin]

But I must say that I don't understand why peole hate Mical so much. Yes, I find him rather annoying too, though mainly for the poor voice-acting. As for being a goodie-boy, he would have been far more interesting, if his own inablility to influence the Exile's decision to leave for the war had weighed upon him rather than listening to him preach to us all the time. But other than that, he's not a bad character, and he's not useless either - I frequently had him in my party once I turned him into a jedi, because his healing and meditation skills are very convenient. Yes, Mical has his voice and manners a bit against him, but I don't see why this makes people hate him quite that much...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've always been curious about that as well. Disciple wasn't my favorite character, not by a long shot, but the kind of heated dislike people have for him always struck me as odd because he never invoked that kind of feeling about him.

 

I thought he was an average, decent NPC. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Jediphile]

But was Brianna Atris' spy to begin with?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia says so, and there are voice files from a cutscene which is now cut content, where Atris orders Brianna to spy on the Exile. The male Exile, that is.

 

And why do you presume that Atris kills the Handmaidens? Why should she?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You must have missed the cutscene where Kreia steps out to the handmaidens and says that their mistress has something to tell them, then they all run in to Atris' chambers and we just hear the thumbs. Never left much doubt in my mind that Atris killed them all, but I suppose we could also argue they sat down for tea and a chat...

 

By the way, good to see that there is a person who doesn't hate Disciple!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not the only one, it seems. He's a bit boring, but hating him seems unfair.

[KaanFun-We]

And why would the Exile's companions found an academy on Telos? 

 

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. If they going to do so, it is far more likely to be in a place where the jedi order has some reputation, such as Dantooine, or - even better - Coruscant.

 

Disciple and Kreia make it clear that some wealth of Jedi and Sith knowledge lies on the Telos academy, so I think it makes perfect sense that eventually during the reformation of the order they would return there to obtain these. Doesn't mean they would restart the order based on Telos.

 

As for Atris killing the handmaidens, I don't recall the thumps. But you probably have a point there, in that cutscene though, I recall only two handmaidens running to Atris' meditation chamber, and neither of them were the Last Handmaiden. But as Star Wars oh so frequently does they could find a way around it, such as Brianna conversing with the Exile when she was detained on Telos, and after hearing of how it is to feel the force she fled the academy in search of the Exile, whom she never caught up with.

Edited July 6, 2006 by KaanFun-We

[Ulicus]

(Note, the quote function wasn't being helpful, so italics will have to do - all quotes, aside from Avellone's, attributed to Sikon)

 

If they want to explore that time period in detail, and there are a lot of signs that they do, they can't just say that "historical details were lost". Because in contemporary materials, it isn't history, it's modern age.

 

I'm aware of that. Which is why I said that they shouldn't have released a KotOR comic or any other material set in the "KotOR era". My opinion on the matter is that they flat out *shouldn't* have been exploring that area of history in detail outside of the games.

 

Of course you have to clarify things such as Revan/the Exile's alignment and gender if you're going to release a whole bunch of materials in the same era, but saying it's neccessary is incorrect - because those "new materials" themselves were certainly not neccessary.

 

Ideally, KotOR 1/2 would only have been referenced in the NEC or whatever in passing - and at that point, it *would* have been ancient history.

 

 

When saying "strict continuity", I didn't mean that the continuity is free from problems. There are inconsistencies, but if they didn't care about the continuity, they wouldn't retcon them at all.

 

Well, I don't doubt that they care about their continuity, hell, that's the problem - they care about it *too* much. I'm one of the few who would support a full reboot.

 

The retcons at least wrap it up and reduce the number of loose ends, and this is the right direction to take, even if they don't totally succeed in it. Inconsistencies here and there are inevitable due to the amount of existing material, but with the introduction of the Holocron, the problem was reduced.

 

*Shrug* I enjoy clever retcons as much as the next guy. I'd just rather have things reworked from the ground up so that they weren't needed.

 

So, if you don't like the fact that the genders were canonized,

go ahead. Call them about K1. Call them about K2. Do not hesitate. Tell them of the horrible, bloody crimes being committed in their backyard, which they have seen, yet somehow must be mistaken in their decisions. Tell them what fools they are for making that decision and how Star Wars historical accuracy has been ruined for you, sullied, dragged through the dirt. Tell them how it has crippled their reputation in your eyes for centuries, and how it has left a wound in the Force - a wound that echoes still. I think that only then will they see that what they have done is wrong... and that the balance in the Force must be rectified.

 

That quote is mocking the people who get uptight about the timeline and so called "consistancy". Mainly in reference to the huge jump in technological standards between TotJ and KotOR. Surely my stance of not *wanting* to clarify something in the timeline is kinda off in the other direction? Though the bitching at LucasFilm bit stuff stands.

 

Oh well, thanks for the quote anyway Si, it makes me chuckle and I always enjoy reading it.

 

End of the day, it doesn't matter, because NONE of it is real. It just realllly bugs me. Like Christiano Ronaldo

Edited July 6, 2006 by Ulicus

[Wild Storm]

You must have missed the cutscene where Kreia steps out to the handmaidens and says that their mistress has something to tell them, then they all run in to Atris' chambers and we just hear the thumbs. Never left much doubt in my mind that Atris killed them all, but I suppose we could also argue they sat down for tea and a chat...

Only problem is that they are alive and well during Handmaidens re-entry.

[KoToR3:hopefull]

Ahh great male revan, female exile we ALL know what will happen in KoToR3 nwo dont we? *smooches*

 

 

Have to agree the male exile version was a lot more interesting to me, but that is most likely because ima guy and not because of the game features.

[Sikon]

we ALL know what will happen in KoToR3 nwo dont we?

No, we don't. The only thing we know for sure is that the Republic, the Jedi, and a number of planets will survive it. Everything else can only be speculated.

[Xard]

Smart post Sikon

 

We can say what will propably happen, but we can't say that this and this happen.

 

Oh, Revan & Exile (especially Exile) must be killed in k3 (especially DS ones). Before asking why, use your brains and try figure it out. (yeah, I was too lazy to write explanation )

[GhostofAnakin]

Why? Because as near as I can figure, Brianna is DEAD in the female Exile plot!

 

Note how Atris kills all the handmaidens. Now, if Brianna is still on the academy, then what does that mean? And do you see her when you return to the academy as the female Exile? No, you don't - look through all the rooms, if you want. You're not going to find her. The last you'll ever see her is the one place where you actually get to talk to her in the entire game as a female Exile.

 

Or are we going to presume that that Atris killed all the handmaidens sisters, but left precisely Brianna alive for some odd reason in the female Exile's story? Perhaps that will happen in order to not completely annoy people who actually cared a little about Brianna, such as myself, but honestly - that's some pretty bad storytelling, which is worse than seeing her dead IMHO 

 

A curse on Leland Chee - may his car have flats on all tires and may he be barked at by a dog named Rover! LA hasn't considered these consequences one bit, I fear...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never even thought of that until now. You're right.

 

Good job, female gamers screaming for a female Exile. You just killed Brianna! :ph34r:

[Xard]

Well, male gamers did it too

[DAWUSS]

Well, male gamers did it too

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like me for example

[GhostofAnakin]

Then you're just as guilty as all those fangirls!

 

Heretic!

[Dark_Raven]

I never even thought of that until now.  You're right.

 

Good job, female gamers screaming for a female Exile.  You just killed Brianna!  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She wasn't that great to begin with.

[GhostofAnakin]

I never even thought of that until now.  You're right.

 

Good job, female gamers screaming for a female Exile.  You just killed Brianna!  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

She wasn't that great to begin with.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pixelated character murderer!

[Dark_Raven]

She is but slime on the ground compared to Bastila.

[GhostofAnakin]

That's true. However, she still doesn't deserve the fate given to her!

[CoM_Solaufein]

Poor Handmaiden but it's a small price to pay for a female Exile.

[GhostofAnakin]

The entire moderating team are traitors to the cause! :ph34r: