Im sick of NDA's

[Kaftan Barlast]

A non-disclosure agreement (NDA), also called a confidential disclosure agreement (CDA), confidentiality agreement or secrecy agreement, is a legal contract between at least two parties which outlines confidentiality materials the parties wish to share with one another for certain purposes, but wish to restrict from generalized use. In other words, it is a contract through which the parties agree not to disclose information covered by the agreement.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

 

 

We got some last year students at Uni (Im studying game development with a major in graphics) who are working on a commercial project which forced them to sign an NDA so theyre sitting in the room next to us but they cant say one word of what theyre doing.

 

Next year I might join a team who is doing some outsourced work for a German CRPG( that Im not supposed to talk about), and Ill be forced to sign an NDA aswell.

 

 

 

When did this extreme need for secrecy come up? Was it like this 10 years ago?

Edited May 25, 2006 by Kaftan Barlast

[Volourn]

I think it makes perfect sense. Why would anyone want the 'competition' to grab your dieas. Plus, perhaps, you don't want to announce something before you are ready to. It should be up to the owner of said project (ie. the one apying the bills) to decide when it's time to go public, and/or announce something.

 

Perfectly legit thing to do, I think.

[Atreides]

Sounds reasonable. Insider trading anyone?

[Darque]

NDAs are the norm....

[alanschu]

When did this extreme need for secrecy come up? Was it like this 10 years ago?

 

Welcome to the business. Where have you been?

 

If you're really lucky, you'll get some experience with some code obfuscators as well, to help make reverse engineering a lot more difficult.

[metadigital]

Kaftan, businesses are in business to take the revenue available in the (finite) marketplace; to do this it behooves them to keep their competitive business advatanges. In your marketplace, as with many others in the knowledge industry, information is a key competitive element. Keeping IT assets safe and secure from competitors is pretty straight forward, I would think.

 

Would you be happy to see your artwork submitted under someone else's name, and they receive the credit, fudiciary reward and peer laudation?

 

Now think about the head of a creative company, like a developer, whose revenue depends on their novel and inventive work ... do you see the need for it now?

 

Otherwise, why is there an international patent treaty ...?

[Kaftan Barlast]

My dad works for a security company as an engineer, yet he is allowed to talk WAAAY more about what he does than the average game developer employee. Does that make sense to you?

 

 

And with the project that I might join:

 

-Its a sequel that everyone knows is comming so no harm in saying what game it is.

-There is nothing revolutionary whatsoever about the game mechanics or graphics that could be copied.

-There is about as much story as in Diablo, so noone cares about spoilers anyway.

-There is nothing unique or new about the game or the tools used to make it

 

 

Its a secret not worth keeping a secret.

[Fenghuang]

So you're working on Sacred 2?

[Fenghuang]

It's funny because he just broke an NDA he hasn't even signed yet.

[Gorth]

Even adding that little information, that there is nothing revolutionary or things worth keeping secret is worth keeping secret, as it gives the competition a target they need to beat. I.e. what is the minimum they need to invest of time and money to make their competitive product better, in this case, just a little. No need to pull all the plugs on their wallets then, which can be spend on something else that increases their profit for maximum ROI.

[Darque]

Its a secret not worth keeping a secret.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's not really your call.

 

If you don't like it, don't sign it, and then don't work for them.

 

It's really that simple.

 

If you want to play, you gotta play by their rules

[Fenghuang]

That and he basically said it's Sacred 2.

 

Sequel everyone knows is coming: check

 

Nothing revolutionary: check

 

Little to no story but actiony like Diablo: check

 

Nothing unique or new: check

 

Made by a German dev: check

 

I wonder if they can get you in trouble for disclosing things before you signed an NDA if you sign it later.

[Darque]

Not sure... technically he hasn't signed it... so he's under no obligations... I guess.

[Hassat Hunter]

Reason why some devs even hire somebody and THEN tell them what they work at. To keep this "but there is not even a NDA signed" stuff at bay "

[Llyranor]

And with the project that I might join:

 

-Its a sequel that everyone knows is comming so no harm in saying what game it is.

-There is nothing revolutionary whatsoever about the game mechanics or graphics that could be copied.

-There is about as much story as in Diablo, so noone cares about spoilers anyway.

-There is nothing unique or new about the game or the tools used to make it

 

 

Its a secret not worth keeping a secret.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you think no one will care, why bother breaking the NDA in the first place?

[Kaftan Barlast]

I havent signed anything yet so, yes Sacred 2. Suppose Id go on and disclose something like that there will be X new spells.. what could that matter to anyone?

 

 

If you don't like it, don't sign it, and then don't work for them.

 

It's really that simple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I dont work for them I get no pay and no credit. Thats hardly a choice, IMO.

 

 

 

But Im not really making a serious argument here, Im just ranting about being forced to sign lots of binding legal documents I dont want to sign and dont see the need for "

[Darque]

That's because you're on the bottom of the totem pole

 

You'll learn... in time

[alanschu]

It's funny because he just broke an NDA he hasn't even signed yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I laughed at that too.

[alanschu]

I havent signed anything yet so, yes Sacred 2. Suppose Id go on and disclose something like that there will be X new spells..  what could that matter to anyone?

 

Talk to the marketting team.

 

I dont work for them I get no pay and no credit. Thats hardly a choice, IMO.

 

 

 

But Im not really making a serious argument here, Im just ranting about being forced to sign lots of binding legal documents I dont want to sign and dont see the need for  "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why do you have to sign it?

[mkreku]

I understand the concept behind Non-Disclosure Agreements, but I don't always agree with the way it's handled. It's like there's no limit to the stupidity behind the rules sometimes, when developers aren't even allowed to mention the genre, the colour of the logo or the amount of polygons in a lamppost in the middle of nowhere in the game. I understand that some information is sensitive (story, general artistic design, innovations etc.), but I also have the brains to understand that not everything has to be top secret.

 

When information about a company you're interested in is withheld because of principle and not because it could actually hurt anyone/anything, then it becomes an annoyance. Especially American companies are known for this anal stance in the matter, for some reason.

[alanschu]

It's probably done that way because something that may seem innocuous might actually not be as harmless as they thought.

 

When you leave some parts of it up to the descretion of those that signed the NDA, then there's a chance that something he thinks is not covered by the NDA but actually was, then there's possible trouble. A blanket catch all of zero tolerance limits this opportunity.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Still, I wonder what would happen if you were open about the game? I suspect the PR boom from that could be more powerful than the "controlled information release" we have now.

 

 

Wouldnt you prefer to get: "we have worked to implement X but it causes a texture bug thats related with the collisions somehow, so we're not sure if we will be able to finish it in time because we have other features that we prioritise higher" Rather than "I cant say if X will be in game game or not, but we hope so"

 

I know I would.

Edited May 27, 2006 by Kaftan Barlast

[Hassat Hunter]

J.E. Sawyer explains

[alanschu]

Still, I wonder what would happen if you were open about the game? I suspect the PR boom from that could be more powerful than the "controlled information release" we have now.

 

 

Wouldnt you prefer to get: "we have worked to implement X but it causes a texture bug thats related with the collisions somehow, so we're not sure if we will be able to finish it in time because we have other features that we prioritise higher" Rather than "I cant say if X will be in game game or not, but we hope so"

 

I know I would.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you basically want developers to admit that they lack to competance to do what they wanted to do? I know that this perspective is rather harsh, but it is one that will be taken by people.

 

I suggest avoiding a career in marketting "

[Kaftan Barlast]

I dont agree with you, people who doesnt know anything about how games are made wont care to read forums designer diaries anyway. And those who do, will most likely prefer to know WHY something was dropped or made it to release.

 

My idea on how I would setup my forums if I ran a development studio would be to have the regular sections but also a "developers corner" area for people who really wanted to follow the dev process. Access to this section would be restricted to keep out the kids and trolls. Members would be able to ask the devs whats going on and Devs would be able to quickly get feedback from the fanbase.

 

 

J.E. Sawyer explains

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Coincidentally, I was the one who begged him to write that.