Do you think we could move back to the topic at hand, or is this lovely love-in gonna spell D-E-R-A-I-L-M-E-N-T?

Um, the last one.

 

Edited April 28, 200619 yr by Blank

Oh, let's not derail. The fact is, for NWN2, the proof will undoubtedly lie in the playing.

NWN 2 will be awesome but do we really need another chosen one? Why not a fallen hero, or someone who has been evil, who finally sees the light?

NWN 2 will be awesome but do we really need another chosen one? Why not a fallen hero, or someone who has been evil, who finally sees the light?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because those predetermine your character to some extent.

In order to determine if it's a chosen one story. You first have to determine what a chosen one is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But why does it matter whether it's a chosen one story or not?

 

See, that's the problem with this argument, which I think Eldar has got right: the "chosen one story" has become a kind of insult, and if it can somehow be associated with a game, then the game's mediocrity is self-explanatory. As a result, instead of arguing about the *why* the NWN 2 story might suck, you end up arguing about whether it's a chosen one story, with the knowledge that its relationship to the chosen one storyline is indictive of its quality.

 

Naturally, since everyone's idea of what a chosen one story is might very well differ, the argument becomes meaningless - a disagreement over semantics (which inevitably end up in a stalemate), instead of a discussion over the merits of actual story elements.

Edited April 28, 200619 yr by Azarkon

Azarkon, that's a fair statement. Here's my take: Obsidian had stated that your character would be a 'nobody' yet the story shared now makes your character rather important right from the start - not through any actions you may or not take; but by chance. That's why I dislike the story outline as shared.

 

Game over.

 

 

P.S. That doesn't mean I think the NWN OC story will eevntually suck overall. Afterall, I feel the PST storyline of amnesia lame yet the story itself ends up being rather good - mostly because of the fantastic characters...

But why does it matter whether it's a chosen one story or not?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well they are generally predictable and they inevitably dictate a lot about your character.

Azarkon, that's a fair statement. Here's my take: Obsidian had stated that your character would be a 'nobody' yet the story shared now makes your character rather important right from the start - not through any actions you may or not take; but by chance. That's why I dislike the story outline as shared.

 

Game over.

 

I see. So the real beef is with whether the story allows you to define yourself, rather than being defined a priori?

 

Personally, I think the Githyanki sword thing is just there to keep you on your toes - to provide a sense of urgency and purpose to the player's involvement in the plot. Alot of people complained about Morrowind on the lines that the game lacked narrative drive - that is, personal motivation for the player's actions.

 

To wit: the ideal "nobody" story would start you off tabula rasa and allow *you* to determine what your motivations and goals are. Yet such a game, from a player's point of view, is going to have a very slow start as in the beginning I'd have little interest and personal attachment to the world. In order to make a educated decision as to what my goal is, and to have the passion to pursue such a goal, I must first be *interested* in the world. This, in turn, argues for some sort of in media res introduction - a hook I can relate to (and anyone can relate to being chased by murderous Githyanki, surely ) that'll get me exploring and learning about the world.

 

The sword piece stuck in your ass is probably not the best hook in the world, but it is such a hook.

 

P.S. That doesn't mean I think the NWN OC story will eevntually suck overall. Afterall, I feel the PST storyline of amnesia lame yet the story itself ends up being rather good - mostly because of the fantastic characters...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

PS:T is one of those games that just couldn't have been done any other way without losing its thematic focus, I think. It *had* to establish your guilt, or the plot wouldn't have worked. Alot of people loved it for that.

 

Well they are generally predictable and they inevitably dictate a lot about your character.

 

Well, if that's what you're worried about, then I tend to agree that I want neither of those attributes in the story. But I don't see predictability as a necessary attribute in the current NWN 2 story - what we've been given thus far is only a brief sketch of the plot. It could easily throw some curve balls (ie what if the King of Shadows was actually good?)

"To wit: the ideal "nobody" story would start you off tabula rasa and allow *you* to determine what your motivations and goals are. Yet such a game, from a player's point of view, is going to have a very slow start as in the beginning I'd have little interest and personal attachment to the world. In order to make a educated decision as to what my goal is, and to have the passion to pursue such a goal, I must first be *interested* in the world. This, in turn, argues for some sort of in media res introduction - a hook I can relate to (and anyone can relate to being chased by murderous Githyanki, surely ) that'll get me exploring and learning about the world."

 

This could abeen solved much easier, and still have the same 'Githyanki want their sword back' story.

 

 

In the previous war when their sword got lost, the last remaining piece got buried in an old ruins in the nearby swamp. In the first chapter of the OC, the PC can easily come across these ruins, and find the sword. At the conclusion of said chapter, the gith have figured out where the sword is (they don't know you have it) so attack the village. they overwhelm the palce and you flee (knowing at tjsi time you cna't beat an army of well armed Gith).

 

Then the chase can be on (they figure out you ahve the sword by interrogating other villagers) and the games really begins. See, same basic story, but none of this 'sword stuck in my behind when I was baby and now I was Chosen To defend It At All Cost).

 

Heck, in this version, you cna actually have the PC decide to surrender the sword willingly to the Gith (to spare the village or out of self safety) and then the enemy of the Gith (the other funny race) can become really upset for you returning their enemy's powerful weapon and start to hunt you down in the same manner... this can make you stuck between the two sides 9which, in a way, can still be possible even in the current Obsidian version).

 

Still, at least in this fake version, your character is defined solely by your actions; not by something you have no control over whatsoever...

 

Seriosuly, for all the places/people for a part of sword to find itself ... it has to be you? And, no one happens to notice you got a piece of a sword inside? Weren't your parents/caregivers watching you?

 

Uhuh....

Seriosuly, for all the places/people for a part of sword to find itself ... it has to be you? And, no one happens to notice you got a piece of a sword inside? Weren't your parents/caregivers watching you?

 

Uhuh....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No it dosnt have to be you. It just happens to be you. Thats what dosnt make it a chosen one scenerio.

 

People have carried around shrapnel and bullets for years(and thats in real life). Unless it was noticed at the time, then probably not. It's not like the FR has xray machines and metal detectors.

Well, if that's what you're worried about, then I tend to agree that I want neither of those attributes in the story.  But I don't see predictability as a necessary attribute in the current NWN 2 story - what we've been given thus far is only a brief sketch of the plot.  It could easily throw some curve balls (ie what if the King of Shadows was actually good?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The NWNII story dosnt make you some sort of chosen one. And unless it's going to go around filling in your background (highly unlikely given you have the option to write or choose it) then it's just a single event in the characters life. It (the shard) may be quite critical to the characters continued survival to not get caught but it dosnt define the character at all.

Edited April 28, 200619 yr by ShadowPaladin V1.0

Heck, in this version, you cna actually have the PC decide to surrender the sword willingly to the Gith (to spare the village or out of self safety) and then the enemy of the Gith (the other funny race) can become really upset for you returning their enemy's powerful weapon and start to hunt you down in the same manner... this can make you stuck between the two sides 9which, in a way, can still be possible even in the current Obsidian version).

 

Still, at least in this fake version, your character is defined solely by your actions; not by something you have no control over whatsoever...

 

Seriosuly, for all the places/people for a part of sword to find itself ... it has to be you? And, no one happens to notice you got a piece of a sword inside? Weren't your parents/caregivers watching you?

 

Non-linearity would indeed be great. However, what if you lacked the time and resources to make such a non-linear campaign?

In order to be a chosen one, you must be chosen. The sword being in you, as I undestand it, was an accident. Thus, you're not chosen.

The story so far doesn't sound bad to me. Devil is in the details. In NWN1 the character wasn't Chosen One, however the beginning of the story (only You, The Hero can recover those darn creatures!) was really ridiculous.

The story so far doesn't sound bad to me. Devil is in the details. In NWN1 the character wasn't Chosen One, however the beginning of the story (only You, The Hero can recover those darn creatures!) was really ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it was more ridiculous that something could wipe out the masters. But they couldnt manage to take down a 1st level character. Not the most credible introduction.

But a sword up your butt is a-ok.

 

 

R00fles!

 

P.S. You obviously haven't played NWN OC.

Edited April 29, 200619 yr by Volourn

But a sword up your butt is a-ok.

 

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A shard of a sword which is not up your butt.

 

It's a circumstance. An event happens which has unforseen consequences for the person involved.

 

To be the same as NwN you would have to send a Gythanki warparty to wipe everyone out and then have the PC just encounter level 1 creatures. That makes a good deal less sense than just being the victim of an accident.

"A shard of a sword which is not up your butt."

 

Semantics.

 

 

"To be the same as NwN you would have to send a Gythanki warparty to wipe everyone out and then have the PC just encounter level 1 creatures. That makes a good deal less sense than just being the victim of an accident."

 

The PC was unimportant. The attack wasn't against the PC; but a search for the creatures. The PC meant crap. He wasn't chosen... Unlike the PC in NWN2 where the entire game from the get go - with no action from the PC - is 100% focused on the PC and the sword stuck up his behind. Sounds like a Chosen (and a crappy one at that) Story to me.

 

That said, as before, this doesn't mean the NWN2 OC story is a lost cost. As others (and I) have stated previously, the devil is in the details.

 

Game over.

Edited April 29, 200619 yr by Volourn

If it was as bad as you claim then you wouldnt have to exagerate.

"If it was as bad as you claim then you wouldnt have to exagerate."

 

Not exaggeration. There's a sword up your butt. Deal with it. That's how the game ends. That's the 'dark ending'. The Gith corner you and take the pieces they have, and the last piece (the sword tip) is in your body and they stick it up your butt reconnecting the sword which destroys your body and places your soul in the sword for all eternity.

 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

 

 

p.s. Semantics does not equal exaggeration.

Edited April 29, 200619 yr by Volourn

What???

"If it was as bad as you claim then you wouldnt have to exagerate."

 

Not exaggeration. There's a sword up your butt. Deal with it. That's how the game ends. That's the 'dark ending'. The Gith corner you and take the pieces they have, and the last piece (the sword tip) is in your body and they stick it your butt reconnecting the sword which destroys your body and places your soul in the sword for all eternity.

 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

 

 

p.s. Semantics does not equal exaggeration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Quote from the interview where it says there is a sword up your butt then.

 

Semantics The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form:

 

Quite how you interprete a shard of metal to be a sword up your but. Well I guess that only works in your logic.

"Quite how you interprete a shard of metal to be a sword up your but."

 

This is easy. The sward in question is a piece of sword so, quite literally, you have a sword up your butt (or pick x body part if you so wish) - not a whole sword; but a sword nontheless.

"Quite how you interprete a shard of metal to be a sword up your but."

 

This is easy. The sward in question is a piece of sword so, quite literally, you have a sword up your butt (or pick x body part if you so wish) - not a whole sword; but a sword nontheless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is exageration not semantics.