Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Was rebuilding HK vital to the main quest? Nope.
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Well, no one is going to convince me that the werewolf wasn't bad and asshot design from Troika or that a direct combat with a creature is a "puzzle" or some sort. It also severely deviated from canon material and basically made it that different rules apply to NPCs and PCs which is poor design work for a CRPG. It was badly done and executed, plain and simple. Lets hope Obsidian avoids such things in their games. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah, but if you're basing your experiences on Canon, aren't you metagaming them? You, as a newbie Vampire that is told many times by Nines Rodriguez that you cannot beat the werewolf, had little inclination to think that you could harm the werewolf. I thought you hated metagaming.
Llyranor Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Does it matter, or should the main quest be completely linear by default because it makes for better storytelling? (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Dark_Raven Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Was rebuilding HK vital to the main quest? Nope. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No but it gave you a valuable ally, one who gave you information on the past about Revan. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I'm talking about the older games like the entire Ultima series. Or the Gold Box games. And which game is PNJ? PS:T And if it didn't worked back then why re-add it now. Why not get food back too... let's make sure that while exploring Oblivion you go to a food shop 3x a day or you die of hunger! OH YEAH... the coolness... What I get from the Ultima's is that is mostly used passwords and codes instead of items though... making you need paper... loads! ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Ah, but if you're basing your experiences on Canon, aren't you metagaming them? You, as a newbie Vampire that is told many times by Nines Rodriguez that you cannot beat the werewolf, had little inclination to think that you could harm the werewolf. I thought you hated metagaming. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A newbie vampire that has taken out vampires and other critters far more powerful than a werewolf. I hate when a game or a game master cheats more than metagaming.
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 No but it gave you a valuable ally, one who gave you information on the past about Revan. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But its not vital to the main quest. Getting past the werewolf is vital for the main quest.
Dark_Raven Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Ah, but if you're basing your experiences on Canon, aren't you metagaming them? You, as a newbie Vampire that is told many times by Nines Rodriguez that you cannot beat the werewolf, had little inclination to think that you could harm the werewolf. I thought you hated metagaming. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A newbie vampire that has taken out vampires and other critters far more powerful than a werewolf. I hate when a game or a game master cheats more than metagaming. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So what other characters were suppose to be "stronger" than the werewolf do tell. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Llyranor Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Well, Nines was. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I'm talking about the older games like the entire Ultima series. Or the Gold Box games. And which game is PNJ? PS:T And if it didn't worked back then why re-add it now. Why not get food back too... let's make sure that while exploring Oblivion you go to a food shop 3x a day or you die of hunger! OH YEAH... the coolness... What I get from the Ultima's is that is mostly used passwords and codes instead of items though... making you need paper... loads! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey, I'm not the one that said: Having actual game-events happen based on a quest-item. In the older games that would be harder, since you had to indeed calculate the risk that the player might have dropped it. Thus the quests were more of the "talk/journal" type of stuff than the actual having of some item. I was pointing out how ludicrously incorrect your statement was. I wasn't saying we should or should not readd it. And what you get from Ultima is also quite wrong. Exceptionally wrong. Especially the later games.
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 And even if Oblivion uses such a system for quest you can still blow it with for exemple the Nirnroot quest... HK-rebuilding shows something that is not done alot in previous games, both due to the risk as to the way inventories were build then (no unlimited space back then), but it does happen now due to seperate "quest item" screens. ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Tigranes Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Sion wasn't invincible, you hurt him then he escaped. Or do I remember wrong? You could actually do damage to him I think, and have a 'normal' battle till he ran away. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Volourn Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 The lead vampires, the demons, the end boss, the vampire hunters etc., etc... I laugh at Hades dying to the werewolf so many times; but yeah the werewolf being invulnerable was sillyand illogical in the game world considering that your buddy manages to kill one. You should be able harm it. Period. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Sion wasn't invincible, you hurt him then he escaped. Or do I remember wrong? You could actually do damage to him I think, and have a 'normal' battle till he ran away. No. Everytime he hit 0 he regained all health once again. Thus an endless spiral of combat... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Shadowstrider Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 You know, when a topic goes this far off topic, it should either be split or locked.
alanschu Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Ah, but if you're basing your experiences on Canon, aren't you metagaming them? You, as a newbie Vampire that is told many times by Nines Rodriguez that you cannot beat the werewolf, had little inclination to think that you could harm the werewolf. I thought you hated metagaming. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A newbie vampire that has taken out vampires and other critters far more powerful than a werewolf. I hate when a game or a game master cheats more than metagaming. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nines had a reputation of being exceptionally powerful. The only reason why your vampire would think that Nines, who is more powerful than you (especially if you metagamed at a different point and were unable to defeat him...and the fact that he can defeat the werewolf and you can't) is bluffing when he says that you cannot defeat a werewolf, is if you're metagaming. Another excellent demonstration of your hypocrisy.
Dark_Raven Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 The lead vampires, the demons, the end boss, the vampire hunters etc., etc... I laugh at Hades dying to the werewolf so many times; but yeah the werewolf being invulnerable was sillyand illogical in the game world considering that your buddy manages to kill one. You should be able harm it. Period. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not disagreeing with this, making a character in a game unkillable is lame, but if it must be implemnted into a game, than one should think about what to do in order to "beat" it or in this case run away from it. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 And what you get from Ultima is also quite wrong. Exceptionally wrong. Especially the later games. Tell me how item intensive the Ultima's were... ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 Yeah, I remember that bit now. Bad and asshat design right there as well. Obsidian needs to stop that sort of nonsense in their games.
Tigranes Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 PS:TAnd if it didn't worked back then why re-add it now. Why not get food back too... let's make sure that while exploring Oblivion you go to a food shop 3x a day or you die of hunger! OH YEAH... the coolness... What I get from the Ultima's is that is mostly used passwords and codes instead of items though... making you need paper... loads! HH, no. PS:T had lots of items that you needed to keep a hold of. Bronze Sphere (even if most people had no idea you could do anything with it), Modron Cube, most of the itmes from the devil shop in the Lower Ward, and other memorabilia. The list isn't so long because it is not a long game. Ultima also has items, so I don't even know where you are coming from. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Hassat Hunter Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 (edited) I never bought the cube, nor took the Sphere after delivering it to the old man before leaving Sigil... Yeah some of those items in the shop where indeed needed... but that is (unlike in many other games) quasi on the same screen as where you had to use them... EDIT: Also alot you were send for to get them instead of just getting them and then thinking WTF am I supposed to do with this... Edited April 25, 2006 by Hassat Hunter ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
Judge Hades Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 (edited) Another excellent demonstration of your hypocrisy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And your point being what? Listen, yeah I hate metagaming but there are worse things in gaming than metagaming and that is cheating. Nothing is worse than cheating in a role playing game, PnP or Computer/Console. As a game master, if you have to cheat to make an encounter challenging then you have no right being a game master. THe same applies to game designers. Same rules for the PCs and the NPCs, plain and simple. In one campaign I set up this very elaborate encounter with a main bad guy. It was to be the crowning moment of the campaign, an epic battle that would be remembered for years... In the first round one of the PCs criticaled and killed the main baddie in one hit, battle over. Did I cheat and make the bugger immune to criticals? No. I let the dice fall where they may and that was that. Same rules apply to the PCs as does to the NPCs. Edited April 25, 2006 by Judge Hades
Llyranor Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 NICE MODERATING JOB EVERYONE (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Blank Posted April 25, 2006 Posted April 25, 2006 I just needed to take a moment and laugh at what this thread has become.
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