Oblivion First Impressions

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

The AI is running processes at all times, whether you see them on screen, or they're in the same town as you.  They are not, however, running full processes.

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which is pretty much what I mentioned earlier... with LOD AI.

[jaguars4ever]

Do none of these folks know how to objective review? It's either an "OMFGz0r F4N80Y" or a player-hating Codexer.

[Jorian Drake]

Anyone should decide for him/her self.

[StillLife]

Even a seamless world like the Ultima games didn't have the AIs running for all people in the world at the same time.  I'd be very surprised if Oblivion did.

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It can be done and has been done in NWN for multiplayer as previously stated, but that doesn't exactly work in the exact same fashion.

 

I also seriously doubt oblivion would be running full AI routines for the entire world.... That would be lunacy.

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Yeah that wouldn't make sense at all.

 

It's unlikely the NPCs in Oblivion "remember" things you have done either. Most of the processing concerning NPCs reactions to you--if the Beth devs aren't drooling idiots--would most likely take place through a checklist of sorts when you initiate a conversation with them. In otherwords, basic NPCs you run by don't have their own personal space in memory where it has everything it's learned from you stored away.

 

When you walk by an NPC with some decision making code, it's not a whole lot different, maybe even less resource intensive than an enemy in a FPS depending on how compelex the "AI" is in either game. The behavior of enemies in Far Cry was pretty damn complex and there are lots of things going on, like areas where damage to the environment has taken place or objects that may have been knocked over, for memory to keep track of and the computer to process.

 

NightandTheShape probably has it right I think; the only reason RPGs usually lack behind FPS in the graphics department is because a lot more goes into the other elements of them to spend too much time focusing on state of the art graphics, which is understandable, and probably preferable for people who are really looking for an RPG--not a visual orgasm. It's probably one of the reasons in recent years RPG developers have developed a fondness for using FPS engines for their RPGs, or what gets marketed as an RPG these days.

[jaguars4ever]

Anyone should decide for him/her self.

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You don't say.

[Shadowstrider]

Yeah that wouldn't make sense at all.

 

It's unlikely the NPCs in Oblivion "remember" things you have done either.  Most of the processing concerning NPCs reactions to you--if the Beth devs aren't drooling idiots--would most likely take place through a checklist of sorts when you initiate a conversation with them.  In otherwords, basic NPCs you run by don't have their own personal space in memory where it has everything it's learned from you stored away.

 

When you walk by an NPC with some decision making code, it's not a whole lot different, maybe even less resource intensive than an enemy in a FPS depending on how compelex the "AI" is in either game.  The behavior of enemies in Far Cry was pretty damn complex and there are lots of things going on, like areas where damage to the environment has taken place or objects that may have been knocked over, for memory to keep track of and the computer to process.

 

NightandTheShape probably has it right I think; the only reason RPGs usually lack behind FPS in the graphics department is because a lot more goes into the other elements of them to spend too much time focusing on state of the art graphics, which is understandable, and probably preferable for people who are really looking for an RPG--not a visual orgasm.  It's probably one of the reasons in recent years RPG developers have developed a fondness for using FPS engines for their RPGs, or what gets marketed as an RPG these days.

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I fail to see how storing a variable on an NPC is any different than an NPC remembering something the PC has done.

 

PlayerHasMyQuest == 0

Player has not accepted the NPC's quest.

PlayerHasMyQuest == 1

Player has accepted the NPC's quest.

PlayerHasMyQuest == 2

The player has completed the NPC's quest.

 

This isn't exclusive to Oblivion, either. I'm 99% sure other game development houses do something like this. How is it any different than you remembering something?

"I haven't eaten breakfast."

"I will eat breakfast now/I am eating breakfast now."

"I've eaten breakfast."

 

Or hey, lets apply to something that someone ELSE might ask you to do.

"No, I have not asked him to pick up milk on his way home."

"I've asked him to pick up milk on his way home."

"He has brought me milk!"

[Jorian Drake]

Anyone should decide for him/her self.

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You don't say.

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I say.

[Tigranes]

There are no untextured hills, the problem is video drivers, and hardware configuration.

 

No. They are clearly visible on Oblivion's official trailer (with a huge draw distance) as well as in other screenshots. See the "1 Week To Go" trailer, 20 seconds, the hill on the left. Somebody more knowledgeable might argue that it's not exactly "untextured", but it sure looks like a green, flat glob of crapness.

 

The game still looks amazing, and I have preordered it, but yeah, no texture, or whatever, it is visible. The game actually has a great set of options letting you set draw distances independently for buidlings, trees, actors, etc: but if you have a trailer from Bethesda itself where you can look very very far out, yet you can see the grass drawn in front of your feet and have globby hills far out, I would definitely say it is noticeable.

 

It has also been commented on by IGN Impressions and many others, including German screenshots and fan reviews.

Edited March 22, 2006 by Tigranes

[Shadowstrider]

That is not what untextured means. If it were untextured it would appear as a giant white, featureless plane. Once again, what you refer to as "untextured" only appears in certain hardware configurations/settings. If you set the draw distance to the max, but turn off LOD trees, yeah you're going to notice the huge, featureless, low-process texturing.

[Tigranes]

Right, there we go. Not untextured, then, I'll admit that. However, there is an issue: I am saying that not only do fan screenies show these, the OFFICIAL BETHESDA TRAILER shows this, where you are clearly going to get the best LOD possible. Are you saying that in their last PR drive Bethesda would release a trailer exclusively built to show off the beautiful terrain a hardware glitch?

 

I don't really buy that. THat's the part I am concerned about - I wouldn't mind as much if it was a bug.

[jaguars4ever]

Note to self: This thing is completely unplayable on a 256 MB Geforce 5700 LE.

[CoM_Solaufein]

What

[jaguars4ever]

What

[CoM_Solaufein]

I'm at the tail end of the video card recommendations. Guess I will wait until I upgrade that first.

 

Thanks

[Musopticon?]

Thank god I get to play this on an Xbox 360. Morrowind was horrible no matter what kind of rig you got.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Thank god I get to play this on an Xbox 360. Morrowind was horrible no matter what kind of rig you got.

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Probably cost less to buy a 360 than a new graphics card. I'm going to wait and see how the blockbuster thing pans out first though. The only games I really bought for the Xbox were games that I would have been buying on the PC. KOTOR etc.

 

So the way I figure I can either really go for it till the other consoles are released. Or just not bother until the price hits rock bottom and the back catalogue can be had for next to nothing.

 

The problem with going for it. Well there just isnt much stuff around that interests me. But if BB expand the catalogue a bit (from two titles) then who knows.

 

Actually kind of suprised that one wasnt "demanded" for DOA 4

[Kaftan Barlast]

Did Elder Scrolls:Arena have real dialogue? Its the only game in the series that I liked ( I was 14 )

[Vic]

[Hurlshort]

Again, if you hated Morrowind, you probably will hate Oblivion. So go find another thread.

 

Oblivion is a definite improvement, but it's still very much Elder Scrolls. So far the dialogue is way less "put you to sleep" wordy, and the quests are fairly interesting. There also seems to be a good variety, rather than, "go here, kill this guy, return."

[Pidesco]

I really liked Daggerfall and hated Morrowind. What would you say about Oblivion to someone like me?

[Cantousent]

Do none of these folks know how to objective review?  It's either an "OMFGz0r F4N80Y" or a player-hating Codexer. 

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For some reason I thought this was quite funny. Of course, the Don is right. That's my problem. There's so much bias it's hard to trust the reviews. That's also why message boards are better. You can call the guy for bias. You can even have a discussion with him. In either case, you can cut through the politics and find out about the game.

[karka]

No game deserves full score..

[Dhruin]

Even a seamless world like the Ultima games didn't have the AIs running for all people in the world at the same time.  I'd be very surprised if Oblivion did.

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Well - be surprised. Oblivion runs AI updates for *every* NPC across the world. I was wrong on the number (it's 1500) and there's a better post than this one but I'm too tired to find it. Here's Gavin 'kathode' Carter arguing about WoW :

 

Even though we have massively higher poly counts than WoW and higher texture res's and more texture passes than they do, it's not all rendering. WoW doesn't have 1500 NPCs running in the background. I know you're going to tell me that they have a lot more than that, but you'd be incorrect. Their system doesn't require that they maintain persistent state data (client-side) on all the characters. In fact, about the only thing it does is update positions and animations and stats for characters in your client's local area. That's throwing around a few numbers, which is easy. The hard part of AI processing is making the decisions for characters (i.e. evaluations of circumstances), which we do for all characters in the world in staggered updates, as we have to maintain a persistent world state. WoW certainly does have quite a load just from the sheer amount of data that they have, but they have a server side to take care of that. We only have a client.

[Hurlshort]

I really liked Daggerfall and hated Morrowind. What would you say about Oblivion to someone like me?

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You have either had a change in your perspective since Daggerfall came out, or you didn't really "hate" Morrowind. When someone tells me they put 30 hours into Morrowind and hated it, I don't believe them. There must have been something compelling enough to get you to spend that much time. If I hate a game, I rarely spend more than a few hours on it.

 

Maybe you were just disappointed that Morrowind did not meet your expectations. That is the way I felt. Personally, I enjoyed Morrowind for awhile, but was very disappointed by the lackluster quests and storyline. I would not say I hated it though.

 

Daggerfall was not a shining gem of a story either. It had randomized quests that were pretty generic, and I don't remember ever even engaging the main plot. But my perspective was different at the time. I didn't have a bunch of other free form games to choose from, so it was a refreshing concept.

 

So Soulseeker, I can't really answer your question without knowing a lot more about you. I don't know how much time you spent on Morrowind, so I only have my personal experience to pull from. Hopefully that helps a bit.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Its going to be very interesting to study this game. Naturally, I will have to play it to determine just how bad it is and so that I can make good arguments in future debates.

 

 

Ill play it "som fan l