Of Troika

[alanschu]

"Troika wanted to make games they liked."

 

False.

 

BIO makes games they like.

 

Unless you are saying Troika LIKED the real time combat in Arcanum... which they claim was forced on them.... LOL

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Wow, one little aspect and suddenly Arcanum was not a game that they wanted to make.

[Dhruin]

make so-called hard-core games ain't what killed troika.  looks at initial sales for toee... started out pretty damned good.  initial sales of arcanum weren't bad neither.

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Now, I didn't say that killed Troika, did I? Again, I was referring to their business sense and the fact that a "hardcore" (whether people agree with this tag or not) cRPG developer will find the modern games market increasingly hostile unless they diversify the market they address and/or change the type of games they make - and their core fans would accuse them (and did for Bloodlines anyway) of selling out.

 

@Volourn, so Bio makes the games they like. ...And?

Edited February 17, 2006 by Dhruin

[kirottu]

And, dont' blame the publisher. Troika is the dveloper. They get blame for all aspects of the game that they agree to.

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Unless you are saying Troika LIKED the real time combat in Arcanum... which they claim was forced on them.... LOL

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The fine line between publisher wanting some feature and publisher forcing some feature?

[Gabrielle]

Troika made hardcore games with a soul? HAHAHAHAH!

 

 

1. I liked Arcanum. A lot. But, this is one of very few games that actually tries to combine to different combat modes equally. Not exactly hardcore is it? And, dont' blame the publisher. Troika is the dveloper. They get blame for all aspects of the game that they agree to. Overall, though, Arcanum was a fun game for me in spite of its many faults.

 

2.  TOEE. The game wa sboring. It did one thing right - the combat system. Pretty much everything sucked, blowed, or was good but buggy as heck (itemc reation here). This game had no *soul* though. Even the role-playing it had lacked purpose or menaing. The characters were a bore.

 

3. Now we get to V:BL. I like this game; but I really want to LOVE it. Sadly, Troika ruins this. This game had some of the best quests, characters, role-playing, music, sound,a nd yes SOUl I have ever seen... yet.. it doens't even make my top 10 (close; but no cigar)..

 

Why? 'Cause the game isn't made for hardcore role-players.. The combat is not just real time; it's absolutely horrid real time. This combat makes KOTOR combat seem challenging, and while KOTOR cdombat is lacking it can be fun... V:BL combat simply isn't fun. It's simply boring (except for a few well done combats). Garbage like that along with the bugs and slowdowns hurts this games epsicially the silly argument that Troika's true goal was to make hardcore RPGs.

 

And, it's not like they weren't given a chance. They had two licensed products including a D&D one (for their seocnd game just like BIO had with theirs) yet still their games didn't hit home espicially the D&D game.

 

 

It says a lot whenh someone like me who actually likes 2 of their 3 games cna say such evil stuff about them.

 

 

I like their games; but I don't mourn their passing... yet, I'd likely have bought their next game because even with its faults; BL was a worthy purchase for me.

 

The funny thing is unlike other people, I have nothing but good epxerience with the Troika folks on line. They're always curteous or at worst begign even when repsonding to Mean Things I Say tm.

 

Go figure.

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My what a nice little assessment. The only thing I really agree on is what you said about TOEE.

 

Bloodlines combat was excellent, a pity there was no pause in it, I really would like to switch weapons if I thought it was necessary.

[Spider]

Bloodlines combat was excellent, a pity there was no pause in it, I really would like to switch weapons if I thought it was necessary.

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Umm... The game DOES pause if you open the inventory. So you can change weapons in combat while the game is paused (as well as do stuff like use Bloodbags)

 

Regardless, Troika went down because the produced severly flawed games, not because they were too hardcore for the average consumer.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Spider

[Gabrielle]

Now I find out about it.

[Judge Hades]

The main reason why I didn't buy Bloodlines when it first came out was because of ToEE. ToEE stank right up there with PoOR 2 and Descent into Undermountain. Bloodlines was the best out of the three but too little too late.

[alanschu]

And, dont' blame the publisher. Troika is the dveloper. They get blame for all aspects of the game that they agree to.

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Unless you are saying Troika LIKED the real time combat in Arcanum... which they claim was forced on them.... LOL

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The fine line between publisher wanting some feature and publisher forcing some feature?

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Hehe, good find.

[Volourn]

"Troika said this was entirely their decision. I think either Cain or Leonard did so in either the Codex forums or in some interview."

 

Oh. Hmm.. I swear I heard differently; but I trust you. If so, that takes a completely different spin on that mix up.

 

btw, Unlike others, I actually liked Arcanum's turn based combat.

 

 

"@Volourn, so Bio makes the games they like. ...And?"

 

And what? You stated, or implied because BIO makes game that appeal to a wide audience that somehow they don't like the games they make.. they do it just for money.

 

That's false. Afterall, JE was a game they had wnated to do since they were originally formed. They obviously liked/like NWN or else I doubt they still be working on this far after its release. They jumped at the oppurtunity to make BG when BIS reccommened them chnage their Battle Infinity to a D&D game.

 

You can aslo tell BIO enjoyed making their games more than Troika because Troika spent an awful lot of time whining about the publishers while even when it was apparant that BIo disagreed with the publisher on an issue they didn't continually whine about it.

 

 

"The fine line between publisher wanting some feature and publisher forcing some feature?"

 

Yes, but anyways, this line of reasoning of mine was mistaken if what RP pointed out is correct. And, I have no reason not to believe him on this issue.

Edited February 17, 2006 by Volourn

[Dhruin]

And what? You stated, or implied because BIO makes game that appeal to a wide audience that somehow they don't like the games they make.. they do it just for money.

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No such implication, I'm sorry. Bio probably does make the games they want but the fact that they want to make games with a wider appeal will always make it easier for them.

 

You can aslo tell BIO enjoyed making their games more than Troika because Troika spent an awful lot of time whining about the publishers while even when it was apparant that BIo disagreed with the publisher on an issue they didn't continually whine about it.

 

And why would either Troika or Bio disagree with their publishers and why would Troika whine about it more? Could it be because the gap between what Troika wanted and what the publisher wanted was bigger than Bio vs publisher? Thanks for agreeing with me.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

"Troika said this was entirely their decision. I think either Cain or Leonard did so in either the Codex forums or in some interview."

 

Oh. Hmm.. I swear I heard differently; but I trust you. If so, that takes a completely different spin on that mix up.

 

Well to be honest after I left the reply I was wondering if it was their decision to include the realtime combat, or if it was their decision to include multiplayer. Unfortunately I was out for the day so I couldn't look up sources to clarify it; although I'm almost certain that it was their decision to include realtime combat and that it was Sierra who pushed for multiplayer.

 

Will try to find some quotes to clarify this, however.

 

btw, Unlike others, I actually liked Arcanum's turn based combat.

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I enjoyed it in the sense that it was playable and didn't really get in the way, although I always played Fast Turn Based. Still, it never seemed to even reach Fallout's combat.

[metadigital]

I thought Arcarnum was boring.

[Darque]

I thought Arcarnum was boring.

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I thought Arcanum was awesome.

[metadigital]

I keep trying to get through it, but the beginning keeps stopping me. Maybe it gets better later ...

[SteveThaiBinh]

I thought Arcanum was great, too, the best of Troika's three games. I'm playing Baldur's Gate and while the constant pausing is OK, I'd much rather be using Arcanum's turn-based combat.

[Gabrielle]

It does get better later. Keep at it old timer.

[Enoch]

I keep trying to get through it, but the beginning keeps stopping me. Maybe it gets better later ...

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Don't get your hopes up. If you're not hooked by the general setting, the great background music, and the one character the devs put some effort into developing (Virgil), you're not going to find anything better later on. And it will become more and more evident that a blind monkey on PCP could design better systems for character skills and combat experience.

Edited February 18, 2006 by Enoch

[Darque]

Arcanum definately had sucktastic combat

[metadigital]

Virgil had some good lines, but I keep feeling that I ought to have liked the game better than I did ... I wanted it to be good (and I didn't even realise it was a Troika game, either).

[Gabrielle]

Arcanum definately had sucktastic combat

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I thought you just said the game was awesome.

[Darque]

Arcanum definately had sucktastic combat

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I thought you just said the game was awesome.

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It was, but the combat still sucked.

 

 

At least it wasn't as bad as Fallouts....

[Gabrielle]

Arcanum definately had sucktastic combat

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I thought you just said the game was awesome.

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It was, but the combat still sucked.

 

 

At least it wasn't as bad as Fallouts....

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How dare you?? Fallouts had an excellent combat system. All games should be modeled after them.

[Darque]

Gabby, you're too easy sometimes

[Gabrielle]

Gabby, you're too easy sometimes

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Just as you.

[metadigital]

Gabby, you're always too easy sometimes

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Fixed!