metadigital Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yep, but I have to make the point, for posterity ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 So why do message boards employ the same process? If all the ill-users of English were banned form their favourite game, or even had their levels docked (or even retarded by extra XP requirements), that might help ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know they do, but a lot of it is matter of opinion. These forums right here might ban somebody for expressing explicitely bigotted views, such as racism, on these boards. But do you think they'd be overstepping by banning a member for using the term "gay" to describe something negatively? Someone might take offense, but many would not. How are they supposed to know all the time? When would they draw the line? Also, WoW is a lot larger of an arena than most message boards out there. Hence, it'd be easier for the admins of message boards like these to just hit the ban button every time something like this pops up. It'd be harder for Blizzard to employ the same process. And personally, I think it'd be rather trite of them to ban or punish their members for every little verbal slip that might be considered remotely offensive. Same way with these boards here. I didn't use the word "gay" to describe Shadowstrider naturally. I was trying to make a point. Using slang words like that might offend, and might be a testament to one's own ignorance. But would banning them really help the situation, or change their views in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yep, but I have to make the point, for posterity ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Point not found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I love the fact that one of the protesting gay guilds was called "The Spreading Taint". Classic. There are none that are right, only strong of opinion. There are none that are wrong, only ignorant of facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Yep, but I have to make the point, for posterity ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Point not found? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That if some message boards can do it, why not Blizzard. I think. Edited February 18, 2006 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 If a person is going to get themselves banned for trying to use the term gay in a positive fashion, like this person who was forming a homosexual friendly guild, then it is only fair for those who use it in a negative fashion be banned. Equal treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 If a person is going to get themselves banned for trying to use the term gay in a positive fashion, like this person who was forming a homosexual friendly guild, then it is only fair for those who use it in a negative fashion be banned. Equal treatment. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 The issue wasn't them using the word "gay" positively, but creating a guild for those of particular belief/sexual orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 It isn't Blizzard's place to suddenly become the "moral educator" on the internet. Banning everyone who uses the word "gay" negatively for one thing will not solve the problem. There will always be people doing it. Then of course you'd have to ban those who say anything even remotely offensive, such as saying things like "retarded" negatively, of saying "Jesus Christ" as a swear word. Blizzard is not an ethicator, it's a business. In fact, one could easily say Blizzard shouldn't have to apologize, because it's their game community, and they are free to do what they wish. And if you think I'm advocating Blizzard to permit people to say horribly offensive things online, I'm not. I'm saying I think it's stupid and pointless to ban them for trite things such as what we're debating here. And I'll say it again, silencing those whom you disagree with will never solve the problem. That was the lesson of Fahrenheit 451. A person's views will, in the vast majority of circumstances, not be changed by the policies enforced by a game company. Blizzard will not cleanse the population of homophobes just by hitting the might "ban" button. The only way to counter bad ideas is with better ideas. They are a business, for one thing, not a school. Maybe in a more ideal world something like this might work, but not so now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I completely agree with Mothman on this point. This is why it makes sense that a player can form a guild that states they are open and support the gay community. Blizzard can't get rid of discrimination overnight, so they offer a sanctuary. That's why they relented on the issue. Mothman is right, we need a guild like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 The issue wasn't them using the word "gay" positively, but creating a guild for those of particular belief/sexual orientation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Same thing to me, Mothman. They were trying to make a positive environment for those who are "gay." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 So why do message boards employ the same process? If all the ill-users of English were banned form their favourite game, or even had their levels docked (or even retarded by extra XP requirements), that might help ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know they do, but a lot of it is matter of opinion. These forums right here might ban somebody for expressing explicitely bigotted views, such as racism, on these boards. But do you think they'd be overstepping by banning a member for using the term "gay" to describe something negatively? Someone might take offense, but many would not. How are they supposed to know all the time? When would they draw the line? Also, WoW is a lot larger of an arena than most message boards out there. Hence, it'd be easier for the admins of message boards like these to just hit the ban button every time something like this pops up. It'd be harder for Blizzard to employ the same process. And personally, I think it'd be rather trite of them to ban or punish their members for every little verbal slip that might be considered remotely offensive. Same way with these boards here. I didn't use the word "gay" to describe Shadowstrider naturally. I was trying to make a point. Using slang words like that might offend, and might be a testament to one's own ignorance. But would banning them really help the situation, or change their views in any way? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um, it's not a zero-tolerance policy. Warnings can be given, with explanations ... I prefer to give the bigots a penalty to XP accretion, maybe a -10% for first offence: that'll get their attention ... OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyric Suite Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 If a person is going to get themselves banned for trying to use the term gay in a positive fashion, like this person who was forming a homosexual friendly guild What are you talking about? Nobody was banned for using the term gay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyric Suite Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) Mothman is right, we need a guild like this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No we don't, those things have no place in the game. WoW is no place to excercise the championing of personal rights. It's a game, and you are supposed to be playing it... Edited February 18, 2006 by Lyric Suite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Okay, threatened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyric Suite Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Okay, threatened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wrong again, it wasn't the usage of the term 'gay' that sprang Blizzard reaction, it was the whole idea behind the guild, which has no place in the game and therefore is against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Okay, threatened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wrong again, it wasn't the usage of the term 'gay' that sprang Blizzard reaction, it was the whole idea behind the guild, which has no place in the game and therefore is against the rules. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This argument has now officially gone in circles. It has already been explained why this guild was necessary. Blizzard originally agreed with you, but now they have conceded and issued an apology. You have your opinion, we have ours, but unfortunately for you Blizzard has sided with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyric Suite Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) This argument has now officially gone in circles. It has already been explained why this guild was necessary. Blizzard originally agreed with you, but now they have conceded and issued an apology. You have your opinion, we have ours, but unfortunately for you Blizzard has sided with us. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, it's an unfortunate state of affairs that whiners and cry babies always get their wish in this country, hence the reason why i was against Blizzard approving this sort of thing, bat alas, they have seemed to falter under the pressure, like everybody does. BTW, what makes you think Blizzard agrees with you? When you enforce an apology out of somebody, don't expect it to be sincere. They are just trying to avoid furthere trouble, it's not their priority to fight against political corrected fascism... Edited February 18, 2006 by Lyric Suite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) if they want to ban the guild then fine, just as long as they ban those who use the term negatively right along beside them. Equal treatment. Just as long as everyone is treated equally and fairly, I don't give a sh*t if they are sincere or not. Edited February 18, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yes, it's an unfortunate state of affairs that whiners and cry babies always get their wish in this country, hence the reason why i was against Blizzard approving this sort of thing, bat alas, they have seemed to falter under the pressure, like everybody does. BTW, what makes you think Blizzard agrees with you? When you enforce an apology out of somebody, don't expect it to be sincere. They are just trying to avoid furthere trouble, it's not their priority to fight against political corrected fascism... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, you really make it sound like the entire world is cracking under the pressure of Gay and Lesbian rights. This is a group that faces open discrimination, and this is a very tiny battle towards ending that. I also never said Blizzard agreed with me. They sided with me. They are a company, there are probably a multitude of opinions within the company. Sincerity is not important in a business decision, only the final outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Moth Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) I tend to agree with Lyric Suite on this one. Blizzard's apology was most likely to avoid confrontation. The way things are in our country, any move that can be considered homophobic is devoured by the media and the gay/lesbian community and brings all sorts of negative attention. Edited February 18, 2006 by Mothman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 ... because it is bigoted and wrong. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Meta for the WIN! (w00t) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 (edited) It's bigoted to disagree with a lifestyle? Homosexuals are not entitled to any greater consideration or care than any other group, and yet they demand a special status. Persecuting homosexuals is certainly wrong. Forcing someone to advocate homosexuality is just as wrong. Blizzard's troubles aren't over with this. Now, the precedent is set. They're going to face the same issue, only with other groups, and those problems are going to get worse, not better. What if a group insists on married status for its members? What if a group insists on heterosexual orientation? What if a group insists on black only members? I Edited February 18, 2006 by Eldar Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 It's bigoted to disagree with a lifestyle? Homosexuals are not entitled to any greater consideration or care than any other group, and yet they demand a special status. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Special status? No, just a place where they can be free from persecution, which is rife in the general community. Persecuting homosexuals is certainly wrong. Forcing someone to advocate homosexuality is just as wrong. Blizzard's troubles aren't over with this. Now, the precedent is set. They're going to face the same issue, only with other groups, and those problems are going to get worse, not better. What if a group insists on married status for its members? What if a group insists on heterosexual orientation? What if a group insists on black only members? I OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantousent Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 At least I can count on you, meta. :Eldar's cute and fluffy smile icon: I'd wink, but I'm afraid of what others might think. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now