Diablo 3 rumours.

[Judge Hades]

You already are chaotic and inconsistent in nearly everything you say, so I can't find any justification for doing otherwise.

 

Yes, nearly everything but not on this issue.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Good job not answering the main point of my post.

[kirottu]

*Looks bottom corner of screen. Sees "moderation options - delete this topic". Feels powerful. Ponders.*

Edited February 15, 2006 by kirottu

[Jediphile]

Diablo isn't Icewind Dale, therefore don't judge it on gameplay mechanics it doesn't have, and don't suggest certain gameplay options aren't available simply because they are different from one game to the other.

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Following that line of logic, all quality becomes relative and so nothing can ever be said about whether any game (or book, movie, or whatever) is good or bad.

 

Also, you have basically suggested that Judge Hades stop expressing his opinion on the matter. Not a very polite thing to do in my book.

 

I may not agree with him entirely, but I understand why he might want to express his opinions on the matter, because I feel much the same way myself. For every little Diablo-fanboy popping up here telling me how wonderful RPGs these games are and how much character development they have, I will exercise absolutely no restraint in telling them exactly how low my opinion is of said games and why, if I feel like it. I might refrain from doing this on the Diablo boards because it would be impolite, and I might refrain from doing it here as well, but only because I'm a nice person and not out to make people angry as such. If that is the consequence of me expressing my opinion on the matter, though, then so be it... I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

Because it does infuriate me, when people call Diablo RPGs. It means ROLE-PLAYING game. What role are you playing when you slash away at endless hordes of monsters? Playing a role comes from the plot, and Diablo allows no choices for the player plotwise. None! You follow the fixed and predetermined progress in the plot, and that's it. Period. There is no deviation or choice along the way, only the question of how many monsters you want to kill and what treasure you randomly pick up.

 

If they had called Diablo a straight action game or a hack'n slash game, then I would have been fine with it, only they didn't. They sold it as an RPG, and it's not. It has little or no true RPG elements in it.

 

The character build is the closest thing, but the way it works in Diablo, it really is more a question of strategy than anything else. To suggest otherwise is the same as saying that a racing game is an rpg if you can customize the car and/or driver, or that a soccer game is an rpg if you have stats-modifications for the players - you still have to follow the race track in the first case and score goals in the second. The only difference lies in how you do it, hence strategy - not RPG.

 

And the character build isn't even that impressive. There may seem to be many, but how many paladins do not spam the zeal and fanaticism skills with points? The same goes for the rest of the characters btw (and I have played those). There are far more choice and character development in many other RPGs, and the only reason people might like Diablo II's system better is if they prefer monster slashing with visual effects over true character growth. In Diablo II the characters are just vehicles that you use to combat the baddies with, just the same as when you customize or upgrade your mech in Mechwarrior or similar. If people like that, fair enough - just don't call it an RPG.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Jediphile

[Gabrielle]

The only thing Diablo has was hordes and hordes of monsters that you kill over and over again.  There was no significant amount of dialog, no insight into the NPCs goals and desires, no strategic combat whatsoever.  When I look for depth in a CRPG it covers:

 

1.  Character Development, both by experience by questing and through dialog.

2.  How strategic the combat is and the intelligence of the critters we are going against.

3.  How well one can interact within the game world and choices have consequence.

 

Now IWD is pretty shallow in most of these areas but Diablo was even more shallow than IWD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apples are not supposed to look and taste like oranges at all.

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Precisely.

[Gabrielle]

*Looks bottom corner of screen. Sees "moderation options - delete this topic". Feels powerful. Ponders.*

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That would make us angry.

[BattleCookiee]

First off all... Diablo never TRIED to be a CRPG. Acting like it should be one is pretty silly.

 

2. If you think they should mix D2 gameplay with story and interaction go play Dungeon Siege 2 RIGHT AWAY

 

3. I would love to see how you define (genre)

* Deus Ex

* Majesty

* GTA

 

If Blizzard wants to make a proper CRPG out of Diablo 3 I think they should keep Diablo 2's character building system, give it PS:T style/depth character interaction, which you could have a party up to 4 to 6.

 

Then it wouldn't be Diablo anymore now would it? It would make all their fans run away! Don't get me wrong, I hate Diablo 2 , but I don't think Blizzard would be as stupid as to scare off millions of potential customers

 

Also it would help if the critters use smarter tactics than just swarm your character(s).

 

According to Judge Hades so far 0 CRPG's have been released since the birth of the videogame "

[kirottu]

The character build is the closest thing, but the way it works in Diablo, it really is more a question of strategy than anything else. To suggest otherwise is the same as saying that a racing game is an rpg if you can customize the car and/or driver, or that a soccer game is an rpg if you have stats-modifications for the players - you still have to follow the race track in the first case and score goals in the second. The only difference lies in how you do it, hence strategy - not RPG.

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Uuu. I liked that one, I really did.

 

And the character build isn't even that impressive. There may seem to be many, but how many paladins do not spam the zeal and fanaticism skills with points?

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I think hammer paladin is the most popular build among paladins. But anyway, why should it concern to you how other people build their characters? All my diablo 2 characters have been non standard(if you don

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Following that line of logic, all quality becomes relative and so nothing can ever be said about whether any game (or book, movie, or whatever) is good or bad.

 

That's an obvious minconception of the logic behind the post. The issue was not to suggest a relativistic notion should be ascribed to quality, but to suggest he cannot devise one single universal notion of quality and apply it to things which may work under different rules for which he devised his notion. In other words this isn't about telling Hades he can't say Diablo would be inferior to Icewind Dale; it's about telling him he can't hope to judge Diablo and Icewind Dale under the same rules when they are clearly different games regardless of whatever label is applied to them.

 

Also, you have basically suggested that Judge Hades stop expressing his opinion on the matter. Not a very polite thing to do in my book.

 

I didn't suggest Hades didn't share his opinion, I suggested Hades to stop repeating the same opinion over and over again. Seeing "Diablo 2 is boring" or "Diablo 2 doesn't play like my favorite CRPG" spammed on this thread and across the boards, or the same narrow viewpoint applied to many other games and videogame companies which we have come to know as his favorite scapegoats is much more rude than asking him nicely to stop doing it.

 

I may not agree with him entirely, but I understand why he might want to express his opinions on the matter, because I feel much the same way myself. For every little Diablo-fanboy popping up here telling me how wonderful RPGs these games are and how much character development they have, I will feel exercise absolutely no restraint in telling them exactly how low my opinion is of said games if I feel like it and why. I might refrain from doing this on the Diablo boards because it would be impolite, and I might refrain from doing it here as well, but only because I'm a nice person and not out to make people angry as such. If that is the consequence of me expressing my opinion on the matter, then so be it... I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

Again, there was never no intention, explicit or otherwise to suggest Hades should stop giving his opinion. In fact, if I wanted him to stop talking about the subject matter or if I did not want to discuss it I would clearly not get myself involved nor would I directly engage him in conversation. But it should be noted that one thing is to show disagreement over a given subject, while another (different) one is to constantly make negative statements towards the given subject matter and ignore the opposing side's argument in favor of even more repetition of the same negative (I should say 'naggative' since he is simultaneously negative and nagging) statements.

 

Because it does infuriate me, when people call Diablo RPGs. It means ROLE-PLAYING game. What role are you playing when slash away at endless hordes of monsters? Playing a role comes from the plot, and Diablo allows no choices for the player plotwise. None! You follow the fixed and predetermined progress in the plot, and that's it. Period. There is no deviation or choice along the way, only the question of how many monsters you want to kill and what treasure you randomly pick up.

 

If they had called Diablo a straight action game or a hack'n slash game, then I would have been fine with it, only the didn't. They sold as an RPG, and it's not. It has little or no true RPG elements in it.

 

AND THERE'S MORE!

 

That's your prerogative but that was not the point of discord between me and Hades, nor was it the reason why you decided to take issue on what I wrote. Neither this thread's premise, nor my posts are meant to discuss the reasons why Diablo may or may not be an RPG so I won't comment much except that I find the Diablo series clearly aren't RPGs although they use elements usually found in RPGs, and that in honesty I find your reasons for considering it to not be one to be dubious at best.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Role-Player

[kirottu]

*Looks bottom corner of screen. Sees "moderation options - delete this topic". Feels powerful. Ponders.*

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That would make us angry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*Doesn

[Gabrielle]

[alanschu]

Also, you have basically suggested that Judge Hades stop expressing his opinion on the matter. Not a very polite thing to do in my book.

 

It's one thing to express your opinion. It's another to continuously regurgitate it in a discussion about the game. Hades has repeatedly made simple "I hate Diablo" posts whenever the game comes up. Often times it's not because someone is saying that Diablo is the pinnacle of computer gaming, but just a discussion about the game.

 

It would be more akin to me coming in and saying how I feel AD&D AC is less intuitive than 3rd edition, in response to someone merely commenting on AC.

[Gabrielle]

Diablo is the pinnacle of computer gaming, Hades just needs to accept that fact.

[astr0creep]

Hades likes Fallout and Torment, possibly Baldur's Gate and PnP D&D. Thats it. At least thats the way he seems to feel about video games.

 

Nothing wrong with that, really. There are very good games, the best actually. But they are what, 5 to 10 years old!

 

He's entitled to his opinions just like the rest of us.

 

Anyway I loved Diablo 1 & 2 when I was playing them but I don't think I will reinstall them anytime soon. Been there, done that, I want something different.

 

So if they do make D3, it better have some major advancements and a lot more depth.

[kumquatq3]

*Looks bottom corner of screen. Sees "moderation options - delete this topic". Feels powerful. Ponders.*

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That would make us angry.

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DO IT! :cool:

[Jediphile]

Diablo is the pinnacle of computer gaming, Hades just needs to accept that fact.

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Yeah, that'll happen.. "

[alanschu]

He's finally accepted that it's a CRPG "

[Gabrielle]

He will accept it, in time.

[Jediphile]

He will accept it, in time.

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Even if he does, I won't.

 

Frangar, non flectar!!

[Gabrielle]

Death to the non believers! To arms, to arms! (w00t)

[Llyranor]

CGW: Some have said that Diablo wasn't a true RPG. What do you say to those critics?

 

Brevik: The whole debate about whether Diablo is a true RPG or not took us a little by surprise. When we set out to make Diablo, we weren't thinking in terms of redefining or changing the genre. We are all huge fans of both paper-and-pencil and computer RPGs, so obviously those experiences influenced our design. But we didn't have a checklist of traits the game should or should not have, to meet an arbitrary definition of what an RPG should be. In the end, people can categorize it however they want, because as long as gamers think it's fun, that's all that matters to us.

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Hi.

[Gabrielle]

High

[Judge Hades]

Death to the non believers! To arms, to arms!  (w00t)

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I have two arms.

[Judge Hades]

3. I would love to see how you define (genre)

* Deus Ex

* Majesty

* GTA

 

Deus Ex is a FPS/CRPG hybrid. I am planning to replay the game and reassest by judgement of that game using my CRPG standards and not my FPS standards.

 

Majesty I have never played.

 

GTA I would catagorized as an action game.

 

If Blizzard wants to make a proper CRPG out of Diablo 3 I think they should keep Diablo 2's character building system, give it PS:T style/depth character interaction, which you could have a party up to 4 to 6.

 

Then it wouldn't be Diablo anymore now would it? It would make all their fans run away! Don't get me wrong, I hate Diablo 2 , but I don't think Blizzard would be as stupid as to scare off millions of potential customers

 

I do think it would kickarse.

 

According to Judge Hades so far 0 CRPG's have been released since the birth of the videogame  "

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That is completely wrong.

[Calax]

Diablo is a tired boring game... it's got little variety for my tastes (other than Phat Lewt!)