Gabrielle Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 (w00t) The only thing I like about France are the cool survival horror games they're making lately <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They making a lot of cool games <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't know they even had computers.
Gromnir Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 of course they gots computers. you thinks roman polanski woulda' stayed in france if he weren't able to access underage internet pr0n sites? HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Volourn Posted February 16, 2006 Author Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) BIO's word > Grom's word on this issue. Why? Because they have *all* the facts. They know how much the game sold, how much it cost to make, advertise, and publish. They know how many copies were sold at full value or those sold at a discount (for the record, JE is still be solid at $50 or so at my EB; a cut off of only $10 from its original price.), how much time eahc of their 200+ employees spent on the project (as a point of reference, Mr. Dave Gaider,a Senior Writer/Designer didn't work on the project at all henc ehis name wans't even in the credits). Until you (or anyone else) can share all this information; I'll take the word of those who *know* the facts - all of them - first. Espicially since you took Gaider's word out of context. When he spoke of million+ copies he was talking about blockbuster games... Guess what? No one claimed that JE was a blockbuster hit. You don't need a blockbuster hit for a title be successful. Be it a game, movie, or elsewhere. A good exmaple of this is movie theatres. A 'blockbuster' is usually set at $100 million+ however, most horror movies are considered SUCCESSFUL if they make $40-$60 million dollars. So. BIO wins unless you can prove they are lying. P.S. R00fles about France!! Edited February 16, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
alanschu Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) @Hurlshot Yes, I don't now how much it takes to make a game on a PC compared to a console. I can't imagine it being much easier on a PC though, given large varieties of hardware configurations. Edited February 16, 2006 by alanschu
alanschu Posted February 16, 2006 Posted February 16, 2006 BIO's word > Grom's word on this issue. Why? Because they have *all* the facts. They know how much the game sold, how much it cost to make, advertise, and publish. They know how many copies were sold at full value or those sold at a discount (for the record, JE is still be solid at $50 or so at my EB; a cut off of only $10 from its original price.), how much time eahc of their 200+ employees spent on the project (as a point of reference, Mr. Dave Gaider,a Senior Writer/Designer didn't work on the project at all henc ehis name wans't even in the credits). Until you (or anyone else) can share all this information; I'll take the word of those who *know* the facts - all of them - first. Espicially since you took Gaider's word out of context. When he spoke of million+ copies he was talking about blockbuster games... Guess what? No one claimed that JE was a blockbuster hit. You don't need a blockbuster hit for a title be successful. Be it a game, movie, or elsewhere. A good exmaple of this is movie theatres. A 'blockbuster' is usually set at $100 million+ however, most horror movies are considered SUCCESSFUL if they make $40-$60 million dollars. So. BIO wins unless you can prove they are lying. P.S. R00fles about France!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, because a corporation has never been known to paint something in more positive image than it actually is.
Volourn Posted February 16, 2006 Author Posted February 16, 2006 (edited) Never said that; but I'd rather have proof that said company is lying. Remember, there's a difference between positive spin and lying. Just like there's a difference between negative spin, and lying as well. Figur eout what these terms mean then return. Edited February 17, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Gabrielle Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 A lie is a lie no matter which way you color it.
Volourn Posted February 17, 2006 Author Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) I agree. But spinning is not lying. It's called using facts in such a way to make a certain point - you can use facts to spin things your way - positively or negatively. Neither is lying. FACT: JE sold 500k+ copies in about 6 months. POSITIVE SPIN: That's what BIO was expecting and hence it wa ssuccessful. NEGATIVE SPIN: Game that don't sell millions of copies are automatica failures. Neither is a lie; but are spins. Edited February 17, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Gromnir Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 "Espicially since you took Gaider's word out of context. When he spoke of million+ copies he was talking about blockbuster games... Guess what? No one claimed that JE was a blockbuster hit. You don't need a blockbuster hit for a title be successful. Be it a game, movie, or elsewhere." gaider noted that even mediocre console sellers gots 1 mil units sold. we assume that he were being hyperbolic, but what he were talking 'bout weren't blockbusters but rather why developers feels the lure of doing console games. is unfair of Gromnir to use gaider words against him when it ain't so convenient to bio? HA! am the first person to admit that we not got all the facts... which is why we ask folks from ea and folks from obsidian and folks from elsewhwere... 'cause we don't know. if the biowarians is telling us that je were a great seller and other industry experts, regardless of where they works is telling us the opposite, then who is we gonna believe? for years there were a handful of bis clowns who insisted that ps:t were a financial sucess. THEY was in position that bioware is in now. they had most knowledge 'bout how good or bad ps:t did, but they were also the folks who had the mostest cause to be screwing with the numbers to be making 'em look better than they actually were... and just likes back in 2000, there is some fans who is gonna swallow whatever nonsense the a developer feels like spewing. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Ewen Brown Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) i think one should first ask of volo to determine what he means by financial success, only then can this be argued, if financial success in the volo dictionary means something that sold as well as the developers expected, then who knows, that might work out to be true Edited February 17, 2006 by Ewen Brown Winterwind
Meshugger Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 "Espicially since you took Gaider's word out of context. When he spoke of million+ copies he was talking about blockbuster games... Guess what? No one claimed that JE was a blockbuster hit. You don't need a blockbuster hit for a title be successful. Be it a game, movie, or elsewhere." gaider noted that even mediocre console sellers gots 1 mil units sold. we assume that he were being hyperbolic, but what he were talking 'bout weren't blockbusters but rather why developers feels the lure of doing console games. is unfair of Gromnir to use gaider words against him when it ain't so convenient to bio? HA! am the first person to admit that we not got all the facts... which is why we ask folks from ea and folks from obsidian and folks from elsewhwere... 'cause we don't know. if the biowarians is telling us that je were a great seller and other industry experts, regardless of where they works is telling us the opposite, then who is we gonna believe? for years there were a handful of bis clowns who insisted that ps:t were a financial sucess. THEY was in position that bioware is in now. they had most knowledge 'bout how good or bad ps:t did, but they were also the folks who had the mostest cause to be screwing with the numbers to be making 'em look better than they actually were... and just likes back in 2000, there is some fans who is gonna swallow whatever nonsense the a developer feels like spewing. HA! Good Fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I actually have no idea on how much PS:T sold besides it made even (doesn't say much really). But are the sales of JE and PS:T about the same? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
moreKOTORplz Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 they would have had no problem selling over a million copies if they developed KOTOR 2, so if you compare the sales of JE to the potential of KOTOR 2 sells (BIO developed) JE is a failure.
Gromnir Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 lucas owns star wars. is not same as doing a new ip. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
moreKOTORplz Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 lucas owns star wars. is not same as doing a new ip. HA! Good Fun! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> didn't think of it that way
alanschu Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Never said that; but I'd rather have proof that said company is lying. Remember, there's a difference between positive spin and lying. Just like there's a difference between negative spin, and lying as well. Figur eout what these terms mean then return. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Coming from the guy that, in previous discussions would accuse people of lying just because they used hyperbole. Edited February 17, 2006 by alanschu
Volourn Posted February 17, 2006 Author Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) "Coming from the guy that, in previous discussions would accuse people of lying just because they used hyperbole." "i think one should first ask of volo to determine what he means by financial success, only then can this be argued, if financial success in the volo dictionary means something that sold as well as the developers expected, then who knows, that might work out to be true" Well.. there are several ways to look at what 'finanical success' means. Let's look at the ways: 1. The game made a profit. (the most obvious way) 2. The game achieved the financial/sales goal of the publisher and/or dveloper. (ie. A game needs 500k to break even, 600k sales means it made a profit, a million sales is what the goal was so in this essence as far as the publisher is concerned a million copies is what would be acceptable). 3. A set copy sale - not caring about actual profit.. Most used for those not expecting a large profit margin ( ie. new developers, new game series, etc.). To me, hwoever, the only 'financial success' moniker that matters is whether or not the companies making it felt that monetarily wise; the game was worth making. Seems to me that both BIO, and MS seemed satisifed with the game's finanical success. I should also note, once again, that I predicted that JE would sell 500k - 1mil copies. I told the slobbering BIO fanboys (the one who thinks the BIO name = Instant Seller) that JE was gonna be no KOTOR or NWN or BG for OBVIOUS reasons. If you cna't figure out that reason, that's not my problem.. or BIO or MS's problem either. If your expectation for JE's financial success was 2mil+ copies sold like KOTOR did on multiple platforms; that's your own illogical fault. "gaider noted that even mediocre console sellers gots 1 mil units sold. we assume that he were being hyperbolic, but what he were talking 'bout weren't blockbusters but rather why developers feels the lure of doing console games. is unfair of Gromnir to use gaider words against him when it ain't so convenient to bio?" Yeah, he was talking console yet he mentioned DA by name yet not JE even though JE was the one closest to release at the time. "which is why we ask folks from ea and folks from obsidian and folks from elsewhwere" Neither EA or Obsidian has all the facts. They have more insider knowledge than we do; but nowhere near as much as BIO or MS does when it comes to JE. But, once again, if someone is gonna accuse BIO and MS of lying; I'd like some proof please. That's all. As for these mysterious 'elsewheres' meh. "THEY was in position that bioware is in now." No, they weren't. Not even close. BIS' and BIO's situations aren't even close to each other. To comapre the two is even silly on so many levels. Edited February 17, 2006 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Gromnir Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 "Yeah, he was talking console yet he mentioned DA by name yet not JE even though JE was the one closest to release at the time. rolleyes.gif " ... is vol speaking in tongues again? "Neither EA or Obsidian has all the facts. They have more insider knowledge than we do; but nowhere near as much as BIO or MS does when it comes to JE." and ea and obsidian has far less reason to bs Gromnir 'bout actual sales of je and whether or not it were a goodly seller. nevertheless, vol is willing to simply accept that bio story in spite of fact that other developers is telling him that the bio story sound fishy. is not like bio is saying anything other than "trust us," but vol accepts. and btw, the ps:t situation is pretty damned analogous... and you squeezing eyes shut and shaking head will not change that reality. with both je and ps:t you gots a game that had substantial critical acclaim and a devoted core of fans. you also had a game that failed to meet sales expectations. you had a game where developers from other companies shook their collective noggins with much sadness and expressed their sympathies for the maker of the critically acclaimed game that did not sell so well. and you had some handful of devout fans and proselytizing developers who were insisting 'gainst all reason their game were actually a winner in terms o' sales. btw, Gromnir never stated that je were a disaster in terms of sales. we said sales were mediocre, and we noted that sales undoubtedley failed to meet expectations. you makes national televised commercials for a game and you is no doubt expecting better than mediocre. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
Ewen Brown Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) "To me, hwoever, the only 'financial success' moniker that matters is whether or not the companies making it felt that monetarily wise; the game was worth making. Seems to me that both BIO, and MS seemed satisifed with the game's finanical success." so, if i were to say spend thousands of hours making a game in my nonexistent garage (and lets say that it cost something to create, considering all the hours and electricity spent) expecting nothing more than to have a few friends to enjoy it, i would be able to call it a financial success does this not in fact make the term financial success devoid of any meaning related to actual finances, by these standards you can decide that a game is a financial success before it even sells a single copy Edited February 17, 2006 by Ewen Brown Winterwind
Volourn Posted February 17, 2006 Author Posted February 17, 2006 Read that line again. I stated monetarily wise. Example: If JE cost $30 million to make, and it only earned $20 million; I seriously doubt businesses like BIO and MS would consider it a FINANCIAL SUCCESS. It is, afterall,,a completely different issue than someone working in their garage. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
metadigital Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 *Magical Volo casts Powerword: Feeblemind* area effect: entire thread saving throw: save versus madness or ignore all of the previous posts and believe Volo's logic. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
metadigital Posted February 17, 2006 Posted February 17, 2006 Based on Intelligence and Recall (Recall the last few pages +25%). OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
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