Commissar Posted January 13, 2006 Author Posted January 13, 2006 If the Norwegian government has evidence that more diverse boards result in more profitable companies, and they've tried and failed to get companies to do this voluntarily, then I think the new law is valid. Making Norwegian business more competitive is the responsibility of the government as well as businesses themselves. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, what if the Norwegian government has evidence that nationalizing all corporations located within its borders would result in more profit? Is that okay, too?
WITHTEETH Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Hmphh <_< I miss the good old, when a woman got out of line.... SMACK Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig
SteveThaiBinh Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Well, what if the Norwegian government has evidence that nationalizing all corporations located within its borders would result in more profit? Is that okay, too? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If they have the evidence and a democratic mandate to do so, sure. The Norwegian people would have to balance the loss of liberty resulting from nationalisation of private assets and undermining of property rights versus the gains in liberty as increased prosperity created wealth for the public, and the choices that result from wealth. The evidence would have to be strong for such a dramatic change, though. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
taks Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 the more countries that move to such plans the more reasons i'll have to laugh at such stupidity in the future... when they fail. taks comrade taks... just because.
Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Hmphh <_< I miss the good old, when a woman got out of line.... SMACK <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't be surprised when you wake up one morning and find something missing.
Surreptishus Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 your wallet... so that the woman can go shopping... for shoes.
Laozi Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Don't be surprised when you wake up one morning and find something missing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My vacuum? People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
WITHTEETH Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Nice move Loazi Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig
Craigboy2 Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Heard this on my drive home this morning from BBC World Service: Apparently, Norway has a law going into effect shortly that requires all corporations to find themselves with an executive board comprised of at least 46% women within the next two years or be shut down by the government. I'm particularly interested in hearing a Scandinavian take on this, since I know that most Americans, save for feminist Goths (or Goth feminists) will think it ludicrous. God knows where the Brits stand, but wherever it is, rest assured they're doing it politely. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It could be worse, they'd could require a center amount each race be in each company. They have it in the US will colleges. It's not fair, white males get screwed over by it. "Your total disregard for the law and human decency both disgusts me and touches my heart. Bless you, sir." "Soilent Green is people. This guy's just a homeless heroin junkie who got in a internet caf
Laozi Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Nice move Loazi <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ya I just........ y'know? People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
213374U Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Don't be surprised when you wake up one morning and find something missing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My vacuum? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Spider Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 but there aren't as many women in the workforce and there certainly aren't nearly as many with the proper education. This is true, at least in the US. I'm not sure how high the percentage of women in the workforce is in Sweden, but I do know that there are more women seeking higher education (college and beyond) than there are men. but what's the percentage of women with the proper qualifications, particularly education? my point is that while it is true women are 50+% of the population, the are NOT 50+% of the pool available, and capable, of running a company. certainly there is a disparity, but not nearly as bad as these numbers indicate. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're absolutely right. The disparity is not as great as those numbers may indicate. But that is part of the problem. The question is why aren't there as many qualified women? Again, it is a matter of perception. Western society still encourages men more to seek leadership roles than it does women. This is what I feel needs to change. The second part of the problem is that women still get fewer breaks than men do. This also needs to change. Er, I thought the topic of discussion was the Norweigian Law. How did it get switched to a debate about gender discrimination in America? *scratches head* That actually wasn't my intention and I'm sorry for not being clearer about this. What I set out to do was to illustrate that things aren't as good on this front as a lot of people are willing to believe in the Western part of the world. I used the US as an example because it dominates Western culture and because I knew where to find the numbers. It was never intended as a slight on the US specifically. BTW, most companies do indeed have male AND female "maternity" leave, in compliance with the Family Leave Act (I think that's what it was entitled). Smaller companies with few employees are exempt, but for the most part both parents are entitled to take a certain amount of family leave, maternity and otherwise. I still don't see what that has to do with Norway's intent to force a quota system into both the public and private sectors. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was responding to a post saying that the Norwegian quota would never even be something to consider unless men got paternity leave. I merely pointed out that men do get that. Note that I am not 100% for the Norwegian law, but I can understand where it's coming from. And I feel people that are just brushing it off as unneeded (I'm not saying you're doing this, btw) are missing something. Similar laws have been discussed in Sweden, but has not been implemented as far as I know. The problem is that the corporate world exists partially outside the democratic one that governs a country like Norway. The people clearly consider men and women equally capable, something the gender spread of those voted into parliament shows with that spread being 50/50 roughly (I don't have the exact numbers of Norway, but they aren't that far off from the Swedish ones). The problem with companies is that they're not ruled by a democratic process, they are ruled by old men. And old men tend to prefer other old men, or slightly younger men, when they promote people. So when the make-up of the corporate world doesn't reflect the views of the public, something needs to be done. What the best way to do this is, I do not know, but at least the Norwegians are doing something. I think that the most qualified for any position, regardless of gender (or race, but that's another issue), should get that position, but as it currently works, men that are less qualified than women still get jobs they shouldn't have. The opposite is quite rare (outside of affirmative actions, which can have this effect at times). Maybe it'll sort itself out in another 50 years, but I don't think it has the right to take that long. Women my age deserve the same shot as I would get and they deserve it now.
Azure79 Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Women have it tough. From one direction they hear they have to BE equal and independent even better than men in everything. EVERYTHING. Then from another direction come the cries of 'You're not skinny enough! You're not pretty enough! You must follow this diet and lose 20 pounds so you feel good about yourself and men and society find you attractive!' Then from yet another direction, 'You should get married and have kids and take care of the home! In the end thats all that matters!' It'll get harder getting married when you're older. You have to do it NOW!!!!!!!!!' This would be enough to drive me batty.
LadyCrimson Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 This would be enough to drive me batty. Women definitely get mixed messages in this regard - if you think about it, it hasn't been all that long since women came out of the kitchen en masse, to use a crude cliche. One of our male friends had a firm belief that his wife should go out and make money...and yet he also wanted her to keep the perfect house, do all the cleaning, have a meal cooked for him when he got home from work, etc. If she did not, and he was 'forced' to have to nuke something or eat out, then she was 'lazy', even tho she was out working as many hours as he did. I used to take him to task on that one a lot. Really PO'd me off...him thinking that his sitting on the couch drinking beer all night after work wasn't lazy cause it was "his due/reward for working hard all day" but it was lazy for his working wife. Double-standard crap. As to the original topic - I'm against mandatory percentage laws in this case, largely because I think it likely breed resentment which could in the long run harm the "cause." As the older generations die and the newer ones take over the power reins, I think things will slowly evolve...just takes time for attitudes and social mores to adjust. Nothing changes over-night. Yeah, there's more that could be done to further the education/attitude changes, but I just dont' think mandatory is the right path. The equal salary thing - it's absurd when/if a woman (or anyone) is paid less for the same job. And don't give paid maternity leave as an excuse...that's just lame. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
Atreides Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 I'm all for cooking if somebody else cleans up afterwards. Spreading beauty with my katana.
Arkan Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Meh, that's one of the oldest owned pics on the web. (like there are any off the web?) "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
Kinslayer Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Well this thread is going down alright, I'm only sorry for the ppl that have something constructive to say on this matter and are denied by ppl who can't control their urge to spam to the point of obliterating a decent thread.
213374U Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 How 'bout you stop metaspamming, Hilde? ) - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Darth_Schmarth Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Interestingly, my only contribution to this thread was non-spam. ^Asinus asinorum in saecula saeculorum
random evil guy Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Heard this on my drive home this morning from BBC World Service: Apparently, Norway has a law going into effect shortly that requires all corporations to find themselves with an executive board comprised of at least 46% women within the next two years or be shut down by the government. I'm particularly interested in hearing a Scandinavian take on this, since I know that most Americans, save for feminist Goths (or Goth feminists) will think it ludicrous. God knows where the Brits stand, but wherever it is, rest assured they're doing it politely. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> it is 40% and the law is 'gender neutral'. it works both ways. i'm not sure what i think about it. the 'old mens club' most of the boards have become is a bit of a problem, but not sure this law is the best solution...
Blarghagh Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) I really don't care whether there are guys or gals in the boardroom. Either way they're beauracratic freaks. Edited January 13, 2006 by TrueNeutral
Laozi Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Interestingly, my only contribution to this thread was non-spam. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't give up, theres still time. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
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