Elder Scrolls / Morrowwind

[Child of Flame]

Bethesda's Fallout

---------------------

 

- Speeking by clicking keywords.

- Real time combat.

- No SPECIAL.

- Crappy story.

- Xbox 360* Game of the Year

 

*Exclusive

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Fix'd!

 

 

I'll take a no sale from me. Fallout 3 should be done by Obsidian where most of the former devs to the 1st two games are at now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Have faith! I'm quite sure Fallowind will be a work of brilliance. And if it falls short of brilliance, well, I'm sure I can find some loose change in the couch to buy it with.

 

 

OK, maybe it won't be so great, but I'm at least going to wait and see before I bury it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh man, I am pretty sure this is not intentional, but it is a hilarious pun regardless.

 

Fallow defintion number two when used as an adjective is...

 

"Characterized by inactivity."

[Nick_i_am]

It seems people in general on this board have had a poor attitude with regards to Morrowind and Oblivion.

 

I don't buy that. Oblivion will be the greatest game of all time. There are many reasons for this.

 

1) These are the guys who made Fallout - or will, anyway. How can they NOT be good?

 

2) Soil erosion and Patrick Steward are being heavily hyped as the best features in this game. How can a good RPG *NOT* have soil erosion or Patrick Steward.

 

3) Look at all the previews. If THAT's not promising, nothing is. Let's look at this one. http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox-360/the-elder...n/679364p1.html

"A first-person RPG that takes 50 to 100 hours to complete might be a bit much for some people to swallow." "Oblivion features only spoken dialogue, so you won't have to waste your time with any of that messy "reading" that plagues other RPGs." Awesome features indeed.

 

4) I think the main problem people had with Morrowind is that the NPCs had perky and existent personalities, as well as actual dialogue. The devs have promised to improve this even more in Oblivion. But I don't want to give just empty promises. Let's look at the FACTS, please.

 

These are the facts:

 

E3 2005. Oblivion presentation. Behold the Radiant AI and fleshed-out NPCs.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=...l=game&type=mov

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=...l=game&type=wmv

 

Conversation between 2 NPCs, with no player input:

"Nelos, hello!"

"Good to see you, Marus, what news have you heard?"

"The news is bad! Rumor has it there has been an attack on Kebaj. They say the daedra attacked in great numbers!"

"Grave news indeed... Perhaps my axe could be of use..."

"I would imagine so! Goodbye, Nelos, and good luck!

 

Then the PC talks to Marus:

"Hello. What can this humble bard do for you in these troubling times?"

>>Daedra attack!!!!!

"I wish I knew more about it. Strange gates have appeared, and daedra swarm the Legion soldiers. They say the streets run red with blood, and the daedra will soon overtake the entire city! If you're good with a blade, they could use you there."

QUEST ADDED.

"Gods protect you."

 

The next dev quote is priceless: "This is a really natural way of doing it. You overhear a conversation, learn a new topic and ask someone about it."

 

Next, the PC enters a bookstore.

"Oh hello! I was actually just about to lock up the store. Is there something I can help you with?"

>>Chorrol

"If you're looking for books, you're in the right place!!!!"

 

Then the dev clicks on the 'Joke button' on the interface.

"That's a good one! An Orc in a party dress. I love it! R00FLES!!!"

>>Daedra attack!!!!!

"Everything I've heard is horrible. Creatures coming from magical gates. Whole cities being destroyed. Nations being ruled by necromancy. It's awful!"

 

AND THE QUOTE OF THE YEAR:

"The whole thing is terrifying, actually. Would you mind staying around for a while? Just to keep me company?"

>>Why would I stay in this dump?

>>I always have time for you.

The dev clicks on option 1 to show off how dynamic and deep the radiant AI is.

"There's no reason to be rude! You can leave now if you want!"

>>I'm only kidding, my Jedi friend.

"Oh, silly me. I should have known you were only teasing. Please, come on upstairs with me."

 

 

Now, obviously, footage shown at E3 is meant to impress the player base. After all, the devs wouldn't show us what they think isn't good, because that means it would shy away potential consumers. What better way to ensure sales than to make the best E3 product possible?

 

And that, my Jedi friends, is exactly why everyone who considers themselves a RPG fan should go out and get Oblivion.

 

Other gamers agree, since the user rating for that footage is 9.3/10.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with this, you're all silly. This is going to be grrrreat. Actual character interactions! Crazy ladies setting their beloved pets on fire for no apparent reason. rawr.

[Oerwinde]

Well, back at the original question:

 

Morrowind is like an MMORPG without any other people.

[qaz156]

Yeah, that's for sure. I honestly was awed by it at first, for like the first 20 hours. Then you realize there are no real characters, they're all just robots. The world history is well written, but the plot is sucky. There are no characters who are interesting, who really come along with your quests, no romances... Eventually you realize that Morrowind, is just a huge world, without any real story or flesh and blood to fill it up.

 

Also do not attempt all the quests! The game is not very condusive to that. One thing that is very very annoying is the fact that you don't get experience for doing quests. Your character advances his or her skills through practicing said skill. In fact, in Morrowind, there's an imbalance in the amount of time you put into a quest and the rewards you get out of it. You get better stuff not from completing the quests, but by exploring the right caves that sometimes coincide with a quest. Thus you don't even need to do quests if you know the right caves to explore.

 

So after you're done exploring the world, and realizing how superficial everything is, then all you have to do is practice your said skills (you don't need a quest to do this at all) and go to the right caves.

 

I loved morrowind when I first got it and now I hate it. What a dumb game.

[Slowtrain]

then all you have to do is practice your said skills (you don't need a quest to do this at all)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

To me that's a huge plus. Being bound to quests just to get better is silly. Its an accepted standard of many crpgs of course, but that doesn't change the silliness of the practice.

 

That being said, skills in Morrowind were too easy to increase and levels came too fast. Daggerfall had a much better balance here. I really wanted MW's character creation and skill system to receive a total do-over in Oblivion, but that's not going to happen.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I hope Oblivion and Fallout 3 become the two greatest games in gaming history so that I can laugh at all the nay sayers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fallout 3 made by Bethesda is a hopeless cause. R.I.P. Fallout series.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Ha ha.... They will ruin Fallot 3. So, how can F3 be a reference for Morrowind or Oblivion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Poor Fallout 3

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fallout 3

 

Where you can jump your way to level 5 in a few minutes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Than again maybe it will be good. High levels quickly!

[Slowtrain]

I will take a moment to point out here that learn by doing skill systems are inherently hard to balance and put some onus on the player not to exploit the system if you don't want to level too fast.

 

So:

 

Point A: You don't have to spend five hours raising your block skill and level by blocking against a harmless mudcrab. Its your choice as a gamer

 

Point B: Even if you gain twenty levels and raise your running skill to 100 just by running from place to place, all that means is you some extra hit point and you cna run really fast. AFAIK, you can't kill monsters in MW by running over them.

 

I have no problem with a serious discussion on the failings of MW as a crpg. But spamming anti-MW crap is no more interesting or useful than spamming anti-PS:T crap.

 

WHich I've been known to do from time to time.

[karka]

BTW, had Obsidian got any attempt to take the rights of F3?

[CoM_Solaufein]

BTW, had Obsidian got any attempt to take the rights of F3?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they do, I wish they would. Take that game home where it belongs.

[Darque]

I will take a moment to point out here that learn by doing skill systems are inherently hard to balance and put some onus on the player not to exploit the system if you don't want to level too fast.

 

So:

 

Point A:  You don't have to spend five hours raising your block skill and level by blocking against a harmless mudcrab.  Its your choice as a gamer

 

Point B: Even if you gain twenty levels and raise your running skill to 100 just by running from place to place, all that means is you some extra hit point and you cna run really fast.  AFAIK, you can't kill monsters in MW by running over them.

 

I have no problem with a serious discussion on the failings of MW as a crpg.  But spamming anti-MW crap is no more interesting or useful than spamming anti-PS:T crap.

 

WHich I've been known to do from time to time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, but no.

 

I gained a few levels in morrowind just running from cliffracers.. that's hardly exploting

[Slowtrain]

[

Sorry, but no.

 

I gained a few levels in morrowind just running from cliffracers.. that's hardly exploting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

awesome! So you're good at running... :S

 

ANyway, I'm not trying to convince anybody to like the game. I learned long ago not to bother with that. We like what we like. No point in arguing it. I was merely inetersted in discussing the flaws of MW, of which it has quite a few, if anybody wanted to.

[Darque]

Actually you can't convince me to like morrowind because I happen to like morrowind already.

 

I'm just able to admit it's flaws and why they shouldn't apply to any game let alone Fallout (w00t)

[Llyranor]

The great thing about Morrowind having NPCs with no personality is that you can easily kill them off and ravage their bodies. Since the game doesn't have any real consequences, you can do anything you want! This is immersive.

[Diogo Ribeiro]

So tell me what you think? Is it worth getting/playing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's a great game to explore, to discover locations, and small details of the gameworld. The lore of the gameworld is also surprisingly good and deep. Character creation is great in the sense that you can create very varied characters.

 

Unfortunately, nearly all NPCs are vapid and are nothing more than walking encyclopedias to which you can ask for the same topics: lore, directions, other NPCs. Most of the skills are more often used for rising in guild status in a passive way than actual quests, and most quests are pretty bland, one-sided deals. Combat is also boring and repetitive, there's little to no challenge to be had.

 

I suggest playing it first if you have the chance, but if you're interested in buying it, try to buy it as cheap a possible.

[Gabrielle]

Sorry, but no.

 

I gained a few levels in morrowind just running from cliffracers.. that's hardly exploting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you gained levels but simply stepping on bugs?

[Darque]

Sorry, but no.

 

I gained a few levels in morrowind just running from cliffracers.. that's hardly exploting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you gained levels but simply stepping on bugs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's possible

[Plano Skywalker]

Morrowind is good if you like exploration and the ability to make your own spells, join whatever factions you wish, etc but the lack of good dialogue is a real bummer.

 

If you like sandbox games, then yes, try Morrowind. You may also want to try Pirates! and Fable: The Lost Chapters.

[Plano Skywalker]

I have no problem with a game being an "offline MMORPG" as long as it provides what MMORPGs provide: a sense of dynamism and community.

 

In Morrowind, you felt like you were the center of the universe with a bunch of one-dimensional sprites all around. Oblivion claims to fix that with Radiant AI.

 

But the lack of true dialogue (they don't wait for your response) scares me a bit.

[Gabrielle]

Sorry, but no.

 

I gained a few levels in morrowind just running from cliffracers.. that's hardly exploting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you gained levels but simply stepping on bugs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's possible

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool. I can be level 25 before I meet the first end boss.

[Slowtrain]

Oblivion is not going to be substantially different from MW. If you didn't like the one; you won't like the other.

 

I've seen lots of claims to <insert_cool_name> AI, I've never seen one that even remotely lived up to its promise. SO, of course, I hope Oblivion improves a lot of things over MW however, I'm not holding my breath.

 

It should be noted in MW that the devs originally were planning to give the AI varius tasks and behaviors but quickly gave it up. Their reasoning was a) too much work involved and b) too confusing for players who are looking for a certain NPC.

 

I guess they changed their minds about A) and solved b) by adding the little "quest-pointer" on the compass.

[Darque]

As long as Oblivion isn't a step down from Morrowind, AND you can mod it... I'll love it (w00t)

[Gabrielle]

Mods for games.

[Slowtrain]

I'm running about 30 mods in my current install. They make the game awesome. But I don't think you can critique a game based on a modded install. You have to look at what the devs shipped.

[Darque]

I'm judging it on if it "can" be modded