Who Kriea actually could be?

[Canaan Aphettu]

I remember reading somewhere that Kriea was Malak's mother. However, considering it was on a Star Wars blog, I didn't really think it was much more than speculation.

 

This Arren Kae argument is good, and there does seem to be a fair bit of evidence behind it, but I think Obsidian would avoid anything even vaguely resembling an "I am your father/mother/longlostsibling" scenario.

 

One thing that the original trilogy did was make it very hard for anyone trying to come up with plausible plot twists...

[DarthVala]

This is true. Although once I get the final crystal upgade, I'm really not interested in her anymore, even if she IS Kae.

 

Side note: Vala, are you aware the quote in your sig is off by a word?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but I think it seems better somehow without the "kid". It's my sig, deal with it! <_<

 

They probably said that Kreia was Malak's mother because they're both the Final Boss. I find it hard to believe they could be related.

[SSgtSniper]

This is true. Although once I get the final crystal upgade, I'm really not interested in her anymore, even if she IS Kae.

 

Side note: Vala, are you aware the quote in your sig is off by a word?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but I think it seems better somehow without the "kid". It's my sig, deal with it! <_<

 

They probably said that Kreia was Malak's mother because they're both the Final Boss. I find it hard to believe they could be related.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Oh, no, my child....

 

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a GOOD blaster at your side, kid."

 

 

--This from the man who carried a blaster so powerful it was known to explode in the owners' hand from time to time.....

Edited February 7, 2006 by SSgtSniper

[Darth_Onivega]

han solo was a infidel

[Knights&Darths]

yet another topic about Kreia being Arren

the truth is that who likes the idea can see all the evidence in the world that she is indeed Kae, the others just point out that never has been spoken the name "Arren" (such a beautiful name) talking about Kreia.

 

anyway here's my 2cents

[*]both neutralsiders

Arren Kae fell in love, had a child, was exiled, and her robes are light gray - that is, as everyone knows, the color of neutrality. none other color would have told anything about the alignment of a jedi, we know robes can be green, red, yet they chose gray and i hardly think it's a matter of fashion.

[*]both teachers on Dantooine

Kreia was a teacher, she tought Revan and others who lost the way of the jedi, she recognizes the chambers of the accademy on Dantooine, and she knew Zhar, Vrook and the other masters, she also knew some of the most popular students like Bastila Shan and maybe the Exile himself. Kae was a teacher too, and Kreia knew her, also at least one of her students (Revan) had on Dantooine many of his followers, Malak and the Exile for starters, and most of his training (so it's most unlikely Kae never was on Dantooine).

[*]both were Revan's first and last master

Disciple- as a padawan, Revan was trained by master Kae, before she was exiled. strange, i do not recall who Revan's master was after that

Disciple- it is said that he returned to his first master (Kae) at the end of his training

Kreia- in the end, he turned back to me. when he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the jedi - except how one could leave them forever

[*]both fought in the mandalorian wars after being exiled and were thought to be dead

Kreia- she joined the mandalorian wars after the shame of her birth was revealed (Brianna was 10 already, yet she doesn't remember)

Handmaiden- i never saw her face, and she did not return from the final battle of the war. she died in the battle that shattered Malachor V, and her body was never recovered

Kavar- i thought you had died in the mandalorian wars

[Jediphile]

[*]both were Revan's first and last master

Disciple- as a padawan, Revan was trained by master Kae, before she was exiled. strange, i do not recall who Revan's master was after that

Disciple- it is said that he returned to his first master (Kae) at the end of his training

Kreia- in the end, he turned back to me. when he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the jedi - except how one could leave them forever

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good points that pretty much sums up the major points that support the idea that Kreia might be Kae. I will have to question the above, however, since you seem to conclude that Kae was Revan's first master solely on the basis that Revan was her padawan, which is not particularly compelling when Kreia says several times that Revan had many masters. We're never told who was actually first, just that none is mentioned earlier than Kae. I do agree that Kae was probably Revan's first master and so is Kreia, but we must admit that we have no proof of it, only circumstanciel evidence to suggest it.

 

Nice picture btw - sure does support the idea that Brianna might be Kreia's daughter - they do seem to have a striking resemblance to each other if you factor in Kreia's decay from using the dark side of the force, I think.

[Knights&Darths]

you seem to conclude that Kae was Revan's first master solely on the basis that Revan was her padawan

well he says "as a padawan" which would suggest his initial training, it'd have been different if he just mentioned that Revan was Kae's padawan somewhere in the middle of his training Edited February 9, 2006 by jinger

[Jediphile]

you seem to conclude that Kae was Revan's first master solely on the basis that Revan was her padawan

well he says "as a padawan" which would suggest his initial training, it'd have been different if he just mentioned that Revan was Kae's padawan somewhere in the middle of his training

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Obi-Wan was also Qui-Gon's padawan in Ep. I ("be mindful of the living force, my young padawan"), so it seems to me that the term 'padawan' goes beyond initial training...

 

But then, I do agree with your conclusions.

[Jorian Drake]

you seem to conclude that Kae was Revan's first master solely on the basis that Revan was her padawan

well he says "as a padawan" which would suggest his initial training, it'd have been different if he just mentioned that Revan was Kae's padawan somewhere in the middle of his training

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Obi-Wan was also Qui-Gon's padawan in Ep. I ("be mindful of the living force, my young padawan"), so it seems to me that the term 'padawan' goes beyond initial training...

 

But then, I do agree with your conclusions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats like for a mom with her kid: it will always be a 'kid'

[Benjamin Korr]

Yeah I've heard this whole idea before, I think theres more then enough evidence to support it, it sure sounds like Lucas to do something like that. Now everyone will be saying "No, I am your Mother!"

[Jediphile]

you seem to conclude that Kae was Revan's first master solely on the basis that Revan was her padawan

well he says "as a padawan" which would suggest his initial training, it'd have been different if he just mentioned that Revan was Kae's padawan somewhere in the middle of his training

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, Obi-Wan was also Qui-Gon's padawan in Ep. I ("be mindful of the living force, my young padawan"), so it seems to me that the term 'padawan' goes beyond initial training...

 

But then, I do agree with your conclusions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats like for a mom with her kid: it will always be a 'kid'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps, but then it's wasn't just an term of affection. Obi-Wan was Qui-Gon's "padawan" at the time - note how the later appeal to the jedi council that Obi-Wan is ready for the trials and is given the rank of jedi knight only at the end of the film after he has defeated Darth Maul...

[moreKOTORplz]

is it just the animation or does kreia look unhuman?

[Knights&Darths]

Yeah I've heard this whole idea before

there are countless endless threads on this topic, here and elsewhere, i posted this list on a wikipedia talk-page, on the lucasarts boards, and also in more than one thread here (it bacame some kinda crusade for me, then i gave up) and i'm pretty sure nothing new is to be heard on this matter, the explanations for each point have been growing discussion after discussion after discussion, till some guy called me anorak or something <_<

is it just the animation or does kreia look unhuman?

oh come on :D it's just a common old woman, i've seen much worse, without milky eyes that is.

[Gabrielle]

Has this question been put to rest yet? How many bloody pages does it take to answer a speculative question?

[Chupacabra]

Apparently, more than 10.

 

Will a dev just come out and say whether Kreia was Kae or not, already? This entire debate has just been worn out to the point of being annoying. <_<

[Jediphile]

Apparently, more than 10. 

 

Will a dev just come out and say whether Kreia was Kae or not, already?  This entire debate has just been worn out to the point of being annoying.  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why isn't it okay for those of us who are interested in the topic to continue discussing it for however long we want to?

 

Nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read it...

[Darth_Onivega]

to the ppl who think Kreia is Kae. Kae was said to be beautiful and if im not mistaken Kreia is not one that is what i would call attractive

[Knights&Darths]

she's talking about decades ago, and there's the scars of war and those of the dark side to consider, what Atton would call "hard living".

[Jediphile]

she's talking about decades ago, and there's the scars of war and those of the dark side to consider, what Atton would call "hard living".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Precisely.

 

Atton: "Then she must be royalty, because she's got to be Queen of the Galaxy to bark out orders like that. Or maybe she's senile.I mean, how old do you think she is? She may have been good-looking once, but it takes some hard living to make creases like that."

 

That's an exact quote from the game.

[LunarG]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but doesn't Kreia make some comment about betrayal running in Handmaiden's blood? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No, but the sisters do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, but no.

 

Both are mistaken. Brianna tells you herself.

It took me some time to find it, but here it is.

 

(Influence: Success)

 

My father broke his oaths. He shamed us all. I do not wish to follow his path... I swore not to follow his path.

...

He went to war to be with the one he loved, but not the one he had pledged himself to. He was disloyal.

...

I am the mark of that disloyalty. It is said that such things run in the blood, and I have fought long to prove that this is not so.

 

Mark that Yusanis is the betrayer not Kae for he betrayed his wife and their family.

 

Still, this does not disprove Kae = Kreia, but it doesn't support it either. It does seem interesting that with certain people it's all about "betrayal", though. With some betrayal runs in blood, while others just need to hold the knowledge of betrayal. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm new to this forum, and as such don't have the "milage" the rest of you seem to have in this topic, but I had some opinions about this very issue.

 

"Still, this does not disprove Kae = Kreia, but it doesn't support it either."

 

I beg to differ... I'd say it CAN support it, and i'll get to that

 

As we all know, Kreia was at some point betrayed deeply, but why does that have to be the Jedi? From what I've read here, it seems it could very likely be, by her own true love?

 

"My father broke his oaths."

"He went to war to be with the one he loved, but not the one he had pledged himself to."

 

And we know that the handmaidens share the same father, but not the same mother... Well... It could be as simple, and real-life like as this:

 

The handmaidens father, were having an affair with Arren Kae.

 

Anything that would support that theory?

 

"I am the mark of that disloyalty."

 

What better way to be a mark of somebody having an affair, than a child?

 

The handmaiden's father might have made all kinda of promises to Arren Kae, maybe he didn't even tell her that he already had a wife (or that he was leaving his wife), and when she found out, that was the kind of betrayal only love can cause.

 

Seems like a somewhat realistic theory to me, as it's the kind of thing that happens in the real world all the time.

 

If this is the case, then it would explain why Kreia seems so conserned when she things the Excile wants to get involved with the handmaiden... I mean, she's not the only woman in his life, what with Mira and Visas Mar and such... She could be worried that he'd do that old love and leave thing.

 

It seems like basic human psychology to me.

 

I'm not saying it's right... It's just possible that's all...

[LunarG]

Yes! This is what I am saying. Too many bits and pieces thrown in, seemingly at random, but when viewed together, present a very possible story. That's why I came to believe as I do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherloch Holmes

 

This is simple deduction. You can't argue against the fact that all clues lead to this conclusion. Sure, we don't know all the facts, and if she was on trial, i might say there was reasonable doubt, but i'd still feel pretty sure Kreia is "guilty" (of being Arren Kae).

[BattleCookiee]

Then why does Disciple remember Kae but not "that other master" (Kreia)?

[kirottu]

I never understood these assumptions and "proofs". As far as I

[Jediphile]

Then why does Disciple remember Kae but not "that other master" (Kreia)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whoever that master is, it's not Kreia, unless Kreia indeed is Kae.

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had.And such teachings and their teachers is why I harbor doubts, why I wonder if something is missing from the Jedi code."

 

The confusion here lies with the Disciple's inability to remember who Revan's master was after Kae. Since Kreia plays tricks on the Disciple's mind throughout the game, we might presume that she is protecting her own identity, and that Revan's master after Kae that Disciple cannot remember is indeed Kreia herself, which would indeed suggest that Kreia is not Kae. However, that conclusion is disputed by other clues. Note that Disciple in the above actually mentions that Revan eventually returned to his first and final master to learn how to leave the order. We know that master is Kreia, since she says so herself:

 

Kreia: "He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew himself.And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters... that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets. He learned from each.But in the end, he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi - except how one could leave them forever."

 

Disciple also confirms this by other statements he makes, which again mentions Kae as one of Revan's masters:

 

Disciple: "Many Jedi defied the Order during the Mandalorian Wars - and it paved the way for the Jedi Civil War.There is no blame - all must accept. But at its core, one must wonder if it was the failure of the Jedi teachings... or the teachers themselves. Many of the Jedi Council trained Exar Kun, Ulic... Revan and Malak. How could they not see the danger they posed? And if they could not......perhaps there was some essential part of their teachings that was flawed. Something beyond the Jedi Code that they were missing. Revan had many Masters. Zhar, Dorak, Master Kae before Kae left for the Wars. Towards the end of his training, he sought out many to learn techniques.It is said that he returned to his first master at the end of his training, in order to learn how he might best leave the order."

 

This confirms from both Disciple and Kreia that Revan's first master was also his last. That master is Kreia by her own admission, though Disciple never actually says so. But even if we doubt her words, the Disciple still confirms that Revan's first and last master taught how to leave the order, which would be consistent for Kreia. And since the master Disciple cannot remember came after Kae but before Kreia, it must either be someone else entirely or else this next master was really still Kreia/Kae during a part of her history that she prefers to keep to herself - she cannot dismiss the existence of Kae, but she can make Kae into another person and then distance herself from that persona... Also note that the Disciple mentions that Revan did not merely train under Master Kae, but was actually her padawan, suggesting that she may indeed have been Revan's first master, in which case she would be Kreia, since Revan did return to her in the end. Also, in Kreia's comments, she indeed says that Revan was once her padawan (her quote above), which seems to support that point.

[BattleCookiee]

But it is also possible that Kae was Revan's last master (besides one)...

 

Nothing there that can prove that wrong. Kae left to join the War, but so did Revan. Maybe he did so right after Kae's training and only had one other just before he went?

 

Edit = Revan ain't the Exile

Edited February 26, 2006 by BattleCookiee