Influence: good or bad?

[Cassidy]

This is a poll based off the Influence: a success or failure? thread which the more I thought about it, should have been a poll. I created this poll in the hopes that the developer of the next KotOR game, hopefully Obsidian, will have some reliable focus group results to go by. It is not necessary to post in this thread since there is another earlier thread that was made for the influence discussion, however I didn't lock it just in case someone feels they need to say something.

[Sikon]

The only thing I didn't like about the influence system was two imbalances, namely Visas and Mandalore. You talk to Visas once and have 100 influence. You use every single opportunity to gain influence on Mandalore and still only have 82 influence. (On the Ravager, I had to enter solo mode to prevent Visas from leeching Mandalore's influence for killing Tobin. Fortunately, it was enough for the "How did you become Mandalore?" dialog branch to appear.)

But it's a complain about the implementation, not the concept. I hope it will be implemented in K3.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Sikon

[Kalfear]

I loved the influence system myself.

 

If used in more games only thing Id suggest is spreading the conversations out more. IE: gaining influence once doesnt equal new dialog. For K2 you should have had to gain like 3 influences to open next dialog so you couldnt just breeze through a NPCs full dialog in one setting.

 

Still though, much much better way to go then K1 or JE were.

[Blank]

I loved the influence system myself.

 

If used in more games only thing Id suggest is spreading the conversations out more. IE: gaining influence once doesnt equal new dialog. For K2 you should have had to gain like 3 influences to open next dialog so you couldnt just breeze through a NPCs full dialog in one sitting.

 

Still though, much much better way to go then K1 or JE were.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i totally agree. it felt like the influence ability better built your character's relationship with the others and that made it more immersive i guess. but this especially should've happened:"For K2 you should have had to gain like 3 influences to open next dialog so you couldnt just breeze through a NPCs full dialog in one sitting."

[CoM_Solaufein]

I liked it for the most part but there were some issues. Bao-dur was hard to gain influence since it was hard to get a convo out of him. Mira was another one that seemed hard to gain influence with.

[Cassidy]

Mira was pretty easy, could get almost all I needed from her in one sitting. Bao-Dur was more about action than words. Your actions are how you gain or lose influence with him.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Cassidy

[Janmanden]

Picking DiaLocks is ... something we have always done in games like Fallout, BG, PS:T, K1 even. And it's fun and immersive of course and romances has become the lovechild of virtually everybody. Remove it and the world will literally flood from cries.

 

But influence ... looked better on paper, but it's only halffinished in the K2 state.

 

One important thing is missing:

 

Anyone that is a subject to influence also needs a personality/attitude adjustment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If their Force alignment keeps reflecting your own even when you become the exact opposite of what you once were, then there must also be room for that change in them. Not necessarily automatic, but thru actions as well.

[Sikon]

You can get 100 influence with Mira through nothing but a conversation, like with Visas, but you should know which options to pick. For Visas... it is different.

And it's fun and immersive of course and romances has become the lovechild of virtually everybody.

I absolutely despise romances and think they are a disgrace upon otherwise excellent games. I want to bury Handmaiden alive, I hope Leland Chee will live to his word and manage to push for the female Exile. As for K1...

"Conclusion: Such pheromone-driven human responses never cease to decrease the charge in my capacitors and make me wish I could press a blaster pistol to my behavior core and pull the trigger. I am pleased that this does not seem to be the case with your current entourage."

Edited December 13, 2005 by Sikon

[Styur Voln]

I didnt like it at all.

1. The way you lose influence with one character and gained with another through one action.

2. How you could easily screw up a jedification by just clikcing a wrong answer.

3. How the old hag Kreia is never satisfied (especially with a refugee at landing pad on Nar Shaddaa-good or bad, its impossible to not lose influence.

4. How you can get a story out of someone by losing influence (I mean, come on?!?)

And, my biggest hatred, 5. How you can't actually see your influence with a party member. With Bao-Dur or Atton, for all you know,you're one point from Jedification, and also, they could be on 60.

 

So, all in all, I hated it compared to K1's 'dragging the story out'. On K1, it was also possible to get to a point where you can't get the story (dunno how, just know), and you didn't know how far you were fro the end of the backstory, but at least doing one wrong action doesn't mess up finishing them. Influence was a good idea, but I'm just not for it.

[Sikon]

1. The way you lose influence with one character and gained with another through one action.

It is possible to avoid such outcomes and stoll max influence with both characters.

3. How the old hag Kreia is never satisfied (especially with a refugee at landing pad on Nar Shaddaa-good or bad, its impossible to not lose influence.

What? Kreia is one of the easiest characters to influence. Considering the refugee, tell her that there is wisdom in her words or that you'll consider it.

4. How you can get a story out of someone by losing influence (I mean, come on?!?)

That's strange, indeed.

5. How you can't actually see your influence with a party member. With Bao-Dur or Atton, for all you know,you're one point from Jedification, and also, they could be on 60.

Look at their alignment.If you're 100% LS, then the more influence you have, the more LS they become. And in real life, you also can't tell how much respect a person holds for you. Edited December 13, 2005 by Sikon

[Janmanden]

And in real life, you also can't tell how much respect a person holds for you.

I think it's best if we leave REAL LIFE out of the picture. There are just too many concepts in play here that would be removed from the game if that was the reason to keep them in the first place.

[Cassidy]

Lightsabers, the force, space ships, aliens, blasters, kolto instant healing packs... shall I go on or should we remove all these things simply because they are not in RL?

[Kalfear]

And it's fun and immersive of course and romances has become the lovechild of virtually everybody.

 

I absolutely despise romances and think they are a disgrace upon otherwise excellent games. I want to bury Handmaiden alive, I hope Leland Chee will live to his word and manage to push for the female Exile. As for K1...

"Conclusion: Such pheromone-driven human responses never cease to decrease the charge in my capacitors and make me wish I could press a blaster pistol to my behavior core and pull the trigger. I am pleased that this does not seem to be the case with your current entourage."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Welp Sik, this quote explains now why you cant understand the completed story (different thread) for K2. Its not you cant or story not there, you just refuse to see it is all.

 

I love romances in RPG if they are written well and make sence. K2 and handmaiden romance was top notch and well done. K2 would have been half the game it is with out Handmaiden in the game (IE: Game with disciple doesnt even remotely compare).

 

I understand that female players want and desire BADLY a RPG with a female lead. I just dont think we are going to see it UNTIL gaming companies figure out how to tell a truely unisex story (IE: male and female lead equal in all points). Computer games are mostly driven by male players, so it makes sence (story wise and financially wise) that males are the lead character.

 

Anyways, noting to do with influence so ill stop here.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Kalfear

[Sikon]

1. I'm not female, but I do want to see a female PC. Because I'm tired of the "Boy loses girl, boy saves girl, they kiss" formula. Of course, I don't want it vice versa, but fortunately KOTORs don't offer the opposite formula.

2. Why do people insist on calling them "aliens"? To that matter, there is no guarantee that Star Wars humans are identical to us (even more, they are not, since if we look at Earth humans from a Star Wars perspective, it should raise a question why they cannot feel the Force). Coruscant humans are just another species in the Star Wars galaxy, but I don't see anyone calling them aliens. It's outrageous.

3. "Romances are half the game" is an opinion, not a fact. "Romances are insignificant and can be safely omitted" is also an opinion. I prefer to hold the second one. Maybe I should go ahead and write a script of Handmaiden sequences wihout any romance... but then, of course, people will say they are vastly inferior to the actual game, so I won't.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

FFX-2 had a female lead (actually it had an all female party).

 

Influence system is a good start but there are still plenty of areas for improvement. People need to get over this idea that they somehow have a right to know the background of an NPC without any effort. No more KOTOR/Bioware spoonfeeding thank you very much.

 

I'd take it even further so that you could only have a certain number of different level "friends" during any one game. Much like the Fire Emblem series where you have different support levels.

 

C - Trivial meaning like someone you know but only chat about trivial subjects with.

B - Close someone who you discuss all sorts of things with

A - Intimate, this may or may not be sexual in nature but at this level they will share the deepest darkest secrets.

 

Much like in real life you have more C's than B's and more B's than A's.

 

As an example an A rating with NPC will forever preclude anything higher than a C rating with another particular NPC. In the Fire Emblem games, not only do the main characters have support levels, but also the NPCs too (independent of the main character).

Edited December 14, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Jediphile]

I liked the idea of influence, but not its execution. A major problem is that most of the characters are described strongly as either good (Bao-Dur, Handmaiden) or evil (HK-47, Mandalore) and won't change their perspectives no matter how much influence them toward the opposite.

 

If influence is going to have meaning in the game, then you cannot have Bao-Dur criticize your evil ways after you've him into the dark jedi forefather of Darth Maul, nor can you have evil Atton be concerned about the female Exile's corruption, or have "goth" Handmaiden be appalled that you exploit the weak and treat them like dirt.

 

To do these things is to make a mockery of the idea of an influence system. Of course, if you're going to write changing behavior/personality for the relevant characters, then it's a lot more work for the programmers, but it is a must if you're going to put an influence system in there - anything else ruins characterization and so is an insult to the gamers. My jedi master pushed HK-47 to reach LS mastery for crying out loud! That should not be possible, and even then, he still had the same winning and charismatic personality and concern for meatb... organic life that we all know and love.

 

Urgh!

 

I do agree that there should have been an influence-meter of some sort to give some indication of how much a companion liked and respected you. No, you don't have those in real-life, but without opening that Pandora's box, let me just say that lots of things are assumed in RPGs without anyone ever seeing them. I have yet to see any Star Wars character go to the toilet, let alone seen a toilet in any movie, book, comic, game, or whatever. Yet this does not bring me to the conclusion that Star Wars characters do not have bladders or digestive systems that produces... well, you get the picture.

 

The relevance of such assumptions is that in real life you would get some indication of what people think of you from all sorts of things. Do they choose to sit next to you, do they greet you in the morning, etc. You don't get those in RPGs, because they're generally uninteresting and presumed to take place.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I liked the idea of influence, but not its execution. A major problem is that most of the characters are described strongly as either good (Bao-Dur, Handmaiden) or evil (HK-47, Mandalore) and won't change their perspectives no matter how much influence them toward the opposite.

 

If influence is going to have meaning in the game, then you cannot have Bao-Dur criticize your evil ways after you've him into the dark jedi forefather of Darth Maul, nor can you have evil Atton be concerned about the female Exile's corruption, or have "goth" Handmaiden be appalled that you exploit the weak and treat them like dirt.

 

To do these things is to make a mockery of the idea of an influence system. Of course, if you're going to write changing behavior/personality for the relevant characters, then it's a lot more work for the programmers, but it is a must if you're going to put an influence system in there - anything else ruins characterization and so is an insult to the gamers. My jedi master pushed HK-47 to reach LS mastery for crying out loud! That should not be possible, and even then, he still had the same winning and charismatic personality and concern for meatb... organic life that we all know and love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Looks like a lot of people didnt get how the influence system worked and how it applied specifically to the Exile as a character.

[Cassidy]

A bump to keep the poll in plain view of everyone. And just for the record, I totally agree with Jediphile. (hehe funny name) He/She put all of my feelings into words.

Edited December 19, 2005 by Cassidy

[moreKOTORplz]

it would have been nice for it to be more player intutive. like if you were evil but you did all this goody good crap to suck in your LS pupil, it would be nice if you could influence with intent of minpulation and have your DS points rise. or if you were good having this bank to keep track of character where once in the blue moon you do something good to influence a DS character the influence would account for all the negative influence you aquired and more. make it based on intent instead of actions that way it only effects the person you are working on and not you.