Arkan Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, I consider the talking skills part of the "thief" line.. so that's why I consolidated it to two main classes, a hybrid and what's left. " Speaking of System Shock 2... it's pretty "classless" all things considered. The "classes" you choose are more or less the same as picking "tag skills", the game is open ended in the skill sets as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've completed Fallout using a smart, charismatic, scientist character. Little combat skills, no "thief" skills. What class this? "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Mine would probably "class" as sniper. High ranged skills, self sufficient. I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hmm.. Weird. Last i checked, FO is classless by the very definition of the term. Afterall, all skills, perks, and so forth are available to every character that have the minimum requirements that do not include classes. There is no 'fighter' or 'rogue' class in the game. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, I consider the talking skills part of the "thief" line.. so that's why I consolidated it to two main classes, a hybrid and what's left. " Speaking of System Shock 2... it's pretty "classless" all things considered. The "classes" you choose are more or less the same as picking "tag skills", the game is open ended in the skill sets as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've completed Fallout using a smart, charismatic, scientist character. Little combat skills, no "thief" skills. What class this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, I consider the talking skills part of the "thief" line.. so that's why I consolidated it to two main classes, a hybrid and what's left. " Speaking of System Shock 2... it's pretty "classless" all things considered. The "classes" you choose are more or less the same as picking "tag skills", the game is open ended in the skill sets as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would consider System SHock 2, Fallout, Morrowind to all be classless games since you define a player character based on the skills you develop not the class you choose. In a classful game, your class defines the skills you are permitted to develop. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hmm.. Weird. Last i checked, FO is classless by the very definition of the term. Afterall, all skills, perks, and so forth are available to every character that have the minimum requirements that do not include classes. There is no 'fighter' or 'rogue' class in the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> *pats Volourn on the head* We'll call them "archtypes" then to make you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Well, I consider the talking skills part of the "thief" line.. so that's why I consolidated it to two main classes, a hybrid and what's left. " Speaking of System Shock 2... it's pretty "classless" all things considered. The "classes" you choose are more or less the same as picking "tag skills", the game is open ended in the skill sets as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would consider System SHock 2, Fallout, Morrowind to all be classless games since you define a player character based on the skills you develop not the class you choose. In a classful game, your class defines the skills you are permitted to develop. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, I'd call them classless too, but that still doesn't change the fact they're built around certain class....errr archtypes And to appease people who say "Well I beat it without a class....errr archtype"... There's two ways to beat classless games... The right way and the other way. The other way is the like the right way but slower and less certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightblade Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 TB = cardboard game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> RT = twitchfest <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok, I'll settle for RT with pause, and a kiss.. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) People generally just make X class with some added skill which they couldnt normally have. This should be a new thread anyway Edited December 9, 2005 by ShadowPaladin V1.0 I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 People generally just make X class with some added skill which they couldnt normally have. This should be a new thread anyway <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm... we're calling them archtypes now to appease Volorun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Archetypes are the cornerstone of fantasy storytelling. Doesn't make them a class. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 (edited) edit: on reflection... that probably wasn't a nice thing to say. Edited December 9, 2005 by Darque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 1. The original pattern or model of a work; or the model from which a thing is made or formed 1. A group of individuals ranked together as possessing common characteristics I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Why does everyone has to get hung up on rationality> It serves no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janmanden Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 On RPG's. I make a distinction between roleplaying and playing a role or a profession. Not the same thing. In my opinion Roleplaying is a mental exercise while playing a role is simply adhering to a codex or style of play. The fight in itself is really pointless beyond the intent to kill, unless you have to make a choice on the actual outcome as well like an opponent that actually pleads for his life for instance...otherwise it's just entertainment. I am a bit hesitant to call Deus Ex, System Shock 2 or Silent Storm RPG's as there is very little or no choice, qualms or moralization on the matter of the role or the character defining dialogue and content. Deus Ex have some, but once you realize how futile and limited everything actually is then...play that role and maintain the illusion or quit. Slabbing a pair of character development **** on a game doesn't really make it female... Create a medic and play as a medic, while it's being a profession is it roleplaying in itself? I think not, it's just a task, job, profession, some tedious thing that has to be done. Classes or profession have very little to do with Roleplaying - even though it might actually help you survive it or do it more brashly. On TB vs. RTS. If you are counting on an element of surprise as in a backstabbing thief then TB is really no good as it obstructs the natural 'flow' of the obvious thing to do, but if you fail that and get into trouble and actually have to *think* about your next move then TB really has a point or points...of strategies and alternatives. I like the way that Fallout: Tactics includes both. Can deal with all the riff-raff quick and easy and go TB whenever you actually face a challenge or you need to coordinate attacks...but despite a few RP choices it's mostly a tactical game and I regard it as such too. On both. Somehow I doubt that you can actually RP in RTS, because thinking about actions and consequences requires a 'little' thought, or TB for that matter, since the combat in itself isn't really genre defining or limiting in any way, in my opinion. Maybe it's just a matter of experience and routine and fleshing out your character from the beginning...but that reallly sounds like clich (Signatures: disabled) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 So the result is: Take TB out of rpgs= a no-go Add both TB and RT to an rpg= very much wanted Que? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPants Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 No. That's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Agreed. But such seems to be the synopsis. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janmanden Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 I don't really think RT or TB has any significance on RPG since it's actually more tied to the entertainment value and or managing chaos. (Signatures: disabled) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Yeah, me too. BG had it right; pause when you want, rely on initiative rolls and all that jazz. I felt it simple, but powerful. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Nay! There is only Fallout!! Give me action points and a big, f*cking gun. (havent played ToEE though) DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 I see your Turbo Plasma Rifle and rise you a vorpal blade. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 Nay! There is only Fallout!! Give me action points and a big, f*cking gun. (havent played ToEE though) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Give me the Flammer. Toasty! I like watching them do the burning death dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaftan Barlast Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 I see your Turbo Plasma Rifle and rise you a vorpal blade. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh, yeh? ***** vindicator* You critically hit Musopticon in the groin for 450 hit points, causing serious pain ..and theres more where that came from, Buddy " DISCLAIMER: Do not take what I write seriously unless it is clearly and in no uncertain terms, declared by me to be meant in a serious and non-humoristic manner. If there is no clear indication, asume the post is written in jest. This notification is meant very seriously and its purpouse is to avoid misunderstandings and the consequences thereof. Furthermore; I can not be held accountable for anything I write on these forums since the idea of taking serious responsability for my unserious actions, is an oxymoron in itself. Important: as the following sentence contains many naughty words I warn you not to read it under any circumstances; botty, knickers, wee, erogenous zone, psychiatrist, clitoris, stockings, bosom, poetry reading, dentist, fellatio and the department of agriculture. "I suppose outright stupidity and complete lack of taste could also be considered points of view. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielle Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The Vindicator min gun is cool. Blast people and dogs to chunks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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