Hmm... Change of mind

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Huh ? You spek about patch 1.0b ?"

 

This is what I'm talking about.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Galaxy under one ruler would have a big tendency to turn into brutal tyranny such as Palpatines Galaktic Empire.

 

And one more thing - KotoR also have better soundrack than TSL. Mabe You guys dont pay attention on such things but i really liked music in KotoR and consider it to play very important role in game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats not important. Just look how effective the Empire was at going around getting things done. Thats why Palpatine disolved the senate. They spent so much time arguing that nothing ever got done. You can see that in EPII as well.

 

Never liked music in RPGs my character does not carry an orchestra around with him.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

You're fine with a cameraman but an orchestra is too much? Odd.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You're fine with a cameraman but an orchestra is too much? Odd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not much you can do about the camera. But I like to be immersed in the sound effects of the areas not an orchestral score. I don't mind listening to it afterwards if it's any good but not when I'm playing.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Not much you can do about the camera."

 

First person perspective.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"Not much you can do about the camera."

 

First person perspective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dosnt really represent peripheral vision very well. Actually I find 3rd person is the most "realistic" since you can perceive more around and in front of you but very little behind. Seeing yourself might be a bit odd, but you probably see more of yourself normally than first person allows anyway.

 

Kind of like if someones creeping up on you and you get that feeling.

[Czulu]

This is what I'm talking about

 

Just started downloading this. What is it ? New soundrack ? Mix of Kotor and TSL music ?

 

Thats not important. Just look how effective the Empire was at going around getting things done. .

 

In New Trilogy the Republic is in state of collapse, similar as in TSL. But it doesnt mean that always was so bad.

 

Thats why Palpatine disolved the senate. They spent so much time arguing that nothing ever got done. You can see that in EPII as well

 

Yeah, i know this. He wants to fight with corruption and bring order and justice to galaxy bla bla bla - Empire fanatics . Strang that in EU we dont see to much good things flowing from hes rule.

 

Never liked music in RPGs my character does not carry an orchestra around with him

 

You can alwys turn of sound. BTW, what you say about save-loading, i suppose thaty you start the game again from the beggining if you die ?

Edited December 6, 2005 by Czulu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

In New Trilogy the Republic is in state of collapse, similar as in TSL. But it doesnt mean that always was so bad.

 

Yeah, i know this. He wants to fight with corruption and bring order and justice to galaxy bla bla bla - Empire fanatics  . Strang that in EU we dont see to much good things flowing from hes rule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your not getting it. The morals are not important. It's simply that if your going to be fighting a battle your better off doing it with one strong leader at the helm rather than a commitee which can never agree what to do. You can see how inefective the Jedi are because they can't decide on a course of action in both KOTORII and EPII.

 

That is what Revan realised and what his plan was. Thats why he was carful in his targetting. He wanted to leave the war making facilities intact. This of course being the "revised" Revan not the KOTORI version.

 

Malak on the other hand was just your basic dull blow everything up over the top melodramatic badguy.

 

If Malak had won and the Sith had turned up there would have been nothing left to fight them with.

[Czulu]

Your not getting it. The morals are not important. It's simply that if your going to be fighting a battle your better off doing it with one strong leader at the helm rather than a commitee which can never agree what to do. You can see how inefective the Jedi are because they can't decide on a course of action in both KOTORII and EPII.

 

That is what Revan realised and what his plan was. Thats why he was carful in his targetting. He wanted to leave the war making facilities intact. This of course being the "revised" Revan not the KOTORI version.

 

Malak on the other hand was just your basic dull blow everything up over the top melodramatic badguy.

 

If Malak had won and the Sith had turned up there would have been nothing left to fight them with.

 

Ok, man, but look at our world. I would prefer to live in democratic country than in any dictatorship. Dictatorship isnt so good in practice as in theory, just look at III Reich, USRR pre-revolutionary France etc. Otherwise we wouldnt live in democracy in our civilized part of world.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Czulu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ok, man, but look at our world. I would prefer to live in democratic country than in any dictatorship. Dictatorship isnt so good in practice as in theory, just look at III Reich, USRR pre-revolutionary France etc. Otherwise we wouldnt live  in democracy in our civilized part of world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm sure you would. But dictatorships are better warmachines at least as long as the person in charge keeps it together.

 

The ally leaders often argued about what the best course of action was. And sometimes that led to inaction. We can count ourselves lucky that Hitler lost his marbles.

[Czulu]

What use from exellent military maschine if it serves only the ruler ambitions not the citizens safe ? Besides, isnt the democratic country now have the best military in the world ?

Edited December 6, 2005 by Czulu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

What use from exellent military maschine if it serves only the ruler ambitions not the citizens safe ? Besides, isnt the democratic country now have the best military in the world ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well in the case of KOTOR II it was to fight the bigger threat.

 

Thats sort of true. Although what they can actually do with it is very limited indeed. And part of that comes from the checks and balances that democracy or the republic have in place.

 

Put that sort of millitary might into the hands of a dictator and they could take over the world. Or defend it from another.

[DeathScepter]

Revan (of kotor 2) is the same Revan of Kotor 1 a stragteist.

 

 

Kotor 2 Revan is a Updated verison of the Same Revan of Kotor 1

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Revan (of kotor 2) is the same Revan of Kotor 1 a stragteist.

 

 

Kotor 2 Revan is a Updated verison of the Same Revan of Kotor 1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

More like a revised version.

 

Actually the Revan in KOTOR is pretty much a fake identity to make the game playable. Thats why it makes me laugh when people say the KOTOR II revan was nothing like theirs.

 

Thats why once he gets all his memories back he buggers off. Dosnt need a pupetmaster anymore.

[Meshugger]

I should stop reading threads about KotOR, it makes me want a KotOR III even more.

[Czulu]

Well in the case of KOTOR II it was to fight the bigger threat.

 

Thats sort of true. Although what they can actually do with it is very limited indeed. And part of that comes from the checks and balances that democracy or the republic have in place.

 

Put that sort of millitary might into the hands of a dictator and they could take over the world. Or defend it from another.

 

Agreed, but look what was all about. I was saying that helping Vaklu, was a DS (BAD) choice because the Republic demise would eventually lead the galaxy to turining into totalitaristic dictatorship, and usually such countries arent good for its citizens.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Agreed, but look what was all about. I was saying that helping Vaklu, was a DS (BAD) choice because the Republic demise would eventually lead the galaxy to turining into totalitaristic dictatorship, and usually such countries arent good for its citizens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But not helping Vaklu would have left the galaxy open for invasion by the Sith.

So it's not so much a choice of good or evil, but a lesser evil or allowing in a greater evil by supporting a failing rebublic.

 

Vaklu would likely sell out to the Sith right away and thus leave the planet intact and act a puppet "ruler". The republic would fight , lose and the planet would be reduced to rubble.

[Czulu]

Nope, not helping Vaklu is prefenting Republic from falling apart (one system leftig will probaly cause chain reaction) and gives it chance to recover from war loses. If the Sith take the galaxy this really wouldnt matter what happend with Onderon, because virtually everyone in the galaxy will suffer from their oppresion, and keeping Republic intact is only way to prevent that.

[Bandobras Took]

At least, while Malak is not deep (afterall, his main purpose is to antagonize the player) I'd rtaher have a 'shallow, obvious' villain than a 'shallow, obvious' villian who talks a lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes! At least you had two planets in KotOR where you didn't know what was going on.

 

 

There I profoundly disagree, but it's certainly a matter of preference.  I prefer clean slate characters, characters that I can actually make on my own.  I can figure out their motivations, their histories, etc.  While not perfect in that regard, II does offer it much more than I; in the original, I can't help feeling like Bioware's loaning me their character for a couple of hours.  In II, when you think about it, not all that much of the Exile's history is truly written, and the game offers you plenty of choices to clarify things.  Why he disobeyed the Council, why he came back to face its judgment, whether it was actually the right choice, why he cares about the Sith stalking through the galaxy, even, to a certain extent, the nature of the whole "wound in the Force" bit.  I got the impression that neither Kreia nor the Council truly knew just what the hell was up with the Exile; both seemed to me like they were guessing.  The common assumption is that the Exile was, in fact, leeching power or life or whatever off of others, but I would argue that there's too much ambiguity for this to be accepted as fact. 

 

In plain English, you can do a lot more towards making the character a product of your creation rather than a Bioware loaner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except that when you wake up in the med lab, you have no clue that any of that happened. Which meant that my first time through, I was playing as a nice guy, and all of a sudden, (near the end, no less -- I didn't like Bao-Dur enough to influence him) "Hey, you were personally responsible for exterminating both sides in the war with some gravity generators." Gee, that'll let me determine the character. Oh, yeah, and apparently Atris was important to me somehow, as I was forced to go fight her and say meaningful things to her, even though I didn't give a flying fig about her and she had approximately three minutes of screen time. KotOR offers at least that much definition simply with what you do after your character figures out they're Revan. There are at least options for reacting to the knowledge and going to the dark side because of it. I felt more hidebound and restricted with the Exile because there wasn't even the illusion of determining the character's background. It was all written out for you.

 

There are lots of ambiguous elements like that.  Onderon's a good example: though it's clear that Queen Whoever is the light side choice, and General Whatshisface is the dark side choice, the actual logical reasoning behind the factions could give you pause.  The Republic of the game is failing, costing more than it's benefiting the planet, and the guys behind the General want out of the system, knowing that they can prosper on their own.  Is that such a bad thing?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Republic is Failing? I had yet to see evidence of that, all you had were people complaining that the aftermath of war made life hard. Again, what's the difference between that and the whole "Jedi tend to make life harder" in the first game?

 

Kreia never tried to hide who she was. She even told you as much when you spoke to her on the Hawk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unless, of course, you didn't have enough influence with her.

 

"Hey, Kreia, can I ask you a question that would advance the plot?"

 

Influence: Failure. "No, shut up."

 

It's as creative as the player wants it to be , within the confines of framework presented by the game. There were very few absolute truths in KOTOR II after all.Even at the end you never really knew if Kriea intended to go through with her plan, or if she had intended to lose all along and her only purpose was to prepare you to face the real threat. Shades of Rave Master there   

 

Since In KOTOR I'd worked out by planet II that I was in fact playing a pregenerated character it removed the point of a background completely. Following the game until it finaly caught up with me was a rather empty roleplaying experience since it was clear that I was following nothing more than a script which I had no power to influence beyond the most trivial ways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And that's precisely how I felt in Sith Lords. "By the way, you were a General in the Mandalorian wars responsible for the biggest slaughter ever and you're too dumb to tell Kreia to take a hike even though you can pretty much tell she's out to destroy you as soon as she wakes up." There's no point in playing that character; all the important decisions were made before you even put your hands on the controls.

 

PS: For other poster that KEEPS saying he doesnt understand whats going on once he hits Dant in K2 (im guessing hes refering to when you face the 3 masters on Dant).

 

HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND????

 

Even with all the cut content in K2, that part made PERFECT sence and the masters AND Kreia AND Handmaiden (after the fact) All explained the whys so a grade One student could understand.

 

Maybe you dont AGREE with what the masters did, thats something totally different, and even I ( a huge K2 fan) would agree their attempting to strip the force from you would be very unjedi like! BUT THEY EXPLAINED THEIR ACTIONS FULLY! All you had to do was read what they said. The logic was flawed for sure, but there is NO way to not understand it.

 

Sorry just hate when people complain about something  thats so straight forward and basic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like, oh, that I said it was the stuff after Dantooine that made no sense? What could be more straightforward and basic than that sentence? Yeesh.

 

After Dantooine and Kreia kills the masters I said to myself, "well, that's an interesting idea; let's see where they go with it."

 

And, in the following order:

 

You go fight Atris, who's gone to the dark side. Great. Why should we care when she got no more than three minutes of "complain about you" screen time.

 

You got to Citadel Station, fight some sith, plant some bombs and fight Nihilus. Great. Again, why should we care? He had even less personality than Atris, and that's saying something.

 

You go to Malachor V. Apparently, your companions were all sucked out of an air hatch between Telos and Malachor, ecxcept Kreia talks about them in one of her innumerable cut scenes.

 

You go kill Sion. Not that that has any real meaning, either, the only thing he's done the entire game is cut off Kreia's hand, for which he ought to be rewarded, not punished.

 

You go fight Kreia, who explains her intention to wipe out the universe, then tries to kill you with four lightsabers.

 

After that conversation on Dantooine, I expected some real depth (that word's been floating around this thread) and interesting choices.

 

I didn't even get the choice of who to take on the Ravager with me.

 

There wasn't a single conversation option that really dealt with your being a wound in the force. There was little stuff like, "Oh, hi Disciple, I'm a wound in the Force!"

 

Disciple: "Oh, I love you anyway."

 

"That's great, but why isn't Atton here, since he's the one I've been paying attention to all game?"

 

Disciple: "Ummm . . ."

 

At least in the first game, the characters reacted to your being Revan.

 

In Sith Lords, aside from Kreia wanting to destroy the universe, nobody cares. Your companions mysteriously vanish on the trip to Malachor. Why?

 

What I found confusing was that they were building up to something cool, deep, and thematic with the revelation on Dantooine, and then proceeded to treat you to a few hours of boring hack-n-slash as a reward.

 

I had hoped that the boring hack-n-slash would have been done with after Peragus.

 

It's not good writing. It's not deep writing. It's absent writing.

[Musopticon?]

Commie, Potent and Kalfear; I'd just drop it. It's really not worth the effort to rebute someone nicked "Bandobras Took".

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Nope, not helping Vaklu is prefenting Republic from falling apart (one system leftig will probaly cause chain reaction) and gives it chance to recover from war loses. If the Sith take the galaxy this really wouldnt matter what happend with Onderon, because virtually everyone in the galaxy will suffer from their oppresion, and keeping Republic intact is only way to prevent that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

According to GoTo it was going to happen regardless. Your missing the big picture which was the republic could not win against the Sith period. Thats why the revised Reven went to such extremes and after he recovered went off to find another way. Malak and the destruction of the Star Forge totally negated any chance of a victory by arms.

 

If you look at the countries that capitulated quickly to the Romans, or the Germans , they got off very lightly compared to those that didnt.

 

If the Sith are interested in conquest rather than outright destruction then a leader like Vaklu will save more people since he will choose the winning side right away.

[Czulu]

According to GoTo it was going to happen regardless.

 

Yes, after few thousands years, as we know from Ep I-III...

 

Your missing the big picture which was the republic could not win against the Sith period. Thats why the revised Reven went to such extremes and after he recovered went off to find another way. Malak and the destruction of the Star Forge totally negated any chance of a victory by arms.

 

The Republic, and especially the Jedi were weak after the war with Exar Kun. The Revan had its plans, true, but they ends miserably after Malaks "coup the grace".

Besides, Youv seen Revans Siths in KotoR, their ideology, do You really think that they will be able to rule the galaxy better than the Republic ?!

 

If the Sith are interested in conquest rather than outright destruction then a leader like Vaklu will save more people since he will choose the winning side right away.

 

Only to make them suffer under Sith tyranny. Great...

Edited December 7, 2005 by Czulu

[Judge Hades]

I like the story in the first onebetter but I like the game mechanics and item creation in the second one.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yes, after few thousands years, as we know from Ep I-III...

 

The Republic, and especially the Jedi were weak after the war with Exar Kun.  The Revan had its plans, true, but they ends miserably after Malaks "coup the grace".

Besides, Youv seen Revans Siths in KotoR, their ideology, do You really think that they will be able to rule the galaxy better than the Republic ?!

 

Only to make them suffer under Sith tyranny. Great...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it collapses several times in the 4000 years between KOTOR and EPII.

 

More efficiently than the republic. Better is subjective and not really the point here. I'm not trying to prove that dictatorships are better for the people.

 

Suffer or be dead, not much of choice but regular folks dont really suffer much more than they do under any other system unless they make themselves a threat.

 

So bottom line. Onderon under Vaklu as a Sith puppet. Or Onderon as a charred rock devoid of life.

[Czulu]

So bottom line. Onderon under Vaklu as a Sith puppet. Or Onderon as a charred rock devoid of life.

 

Suffer for sure under Vaklu, OR take some casualities and suffer from Sith occupation IF Republic really loss war and collapse (BTW, Taris surendered to the Sith, and was blown up nevertheles ). I will take the chance .

 

I think it collapses several times in the 4000 years between KOTOR and EPII.

 

But still exists. Every country got its rises and falls. Remember Sith Empire ? It was totalitaristyc autoritharian empire and lost war badly to the "non efficient" Republic.