The what was wrong with "delaware I" thread

[mkreku]

Strange. The ONLY thing I personally liked about KotOR was its story. I thought it was well-written, well though out and had a very clever twist that at least I never saw coming until it was revealed (I might be a little slow, though). When I reviewed it for NordicGamers I gave it 88/100, even though my personal opinion about it would have given it around 60-70, since the maps were too small for my taste, the quests too easy, the combat too automated and the game too linear. But the production values of that game is amazing..

 

I wish Piranha Bytes could hire a story/script writer of the same calibre as whoever wrote for KotOR. Gothic 3 could be the best game ever if that happened..

[roshan]

The only game that bioware has done which is anywhere close to non linearity was baldurs gate 1.

[Volourn]

And, BIS has only done two. And, Troika has only done one. Your point?

[Iolo]

And the problem with BG1 was that all the fans complained about that so they changed it in their future games. That's a shame really. You shouldn't listen to much to fanboys on a message board. They don't know what they are talking about even if they think they do and think they know what they want.

[Drakron]

And those two games were Fallout.

 

Fallout series was non linear games as BioWare moved from non linear games into more linear game.

 

It depends on what its set to be done, IWD series were dungeon crawls and so were quite linear and PS:T was very linear (but then again, PS:T is more a adventure game that a cRPG).

[Shadowstrider]

The only game that bioware has done which is anywhere close to non linearity was baldurs gate 1.

Baldur's Gate 1 wasn't "close to non linearity." Baldur's Gate 1 was not linear, at all.

[Iolo]

The only game that bioware has done which is anywhere close to non linearity was baldurs gate 1.

Baldur's Gate 1 wasn't "close to non linearity." Baldur's Gate 1 was not linear, at all.

I think it was a relative statement. It was more nonlinear than BG2, NWN, and KOTOR. In a sense it was more widopen because you had the freedom to go to alot of places on the map because of the wilderness areas as opposed to what BG2, NWN and KOTOR did where you can only go places that the game has opened up for you. In all three of those actually, you're kind of forced to go along the main quest just to open up more areas to explore.

[Iolo]

And those two games were Fallout.

 

Fallout series was non linear games as BioWare moved from non linear games into more linear game.

 

It depends on what its set to be done, IWD series were dungeon crawls and so were quite linear and PS:T was very linear (but then again, PS:T is more a adventure game that a cRPG).

Well if Interplay wouldn't keep cancelling projects on them like Torn, BG3 and Fallout 3 we MAY have seen more nonlinear games from Black Isle. I imagine that FO3 would be somewhat nonlinear but we'll never know about the other two.

[Shadowstrider]

The only game that bioware has done which is anywhere close to non linearity was baldurs gate 1.

Baldur's Gate 1 wasn't "close to non linearity." Baldur's Gate 1 was not linear, at all.

I think it was a relative statement. It was more nonlinear than BG2, NWN, and KOTOR. In a sense it was more widopen because you had the freedom to go to alot of places on the map because of the wilderness areas as opposed to what BG2, NWN and KOTOR did where you can only go places that the game has opened up for you. In all three of those actually, you're kind of forced to go along the main quest just to open up more areas to explore.

I don't see how it could be perceived as relative.

 

He says its "the only game that bioware has done which is anywhere close to non linearity."

 

Its not "close" to non linearity. Its not linear, at all. You are almost never forced to do anything (barring the escape from candlekeep both times), and even when you are in the linear events, they're short, and you're not forced into them.

[Darque]

You need some linearity, if only to advance the plot.

You assume the plot is worth advancing.

If you don't like RPGs why are you even here to discuss them?

LOL, jumping to conclusions are we?

No, making observations based on what you say.

 

It's like you said, I can only draw conclusions from what you write.

[Karzak]

You need some linearity, if only to advance the plot.

You assume the plot is worth advancing.

If you don't like RPGs why are you even here to discuss them?

LOL, jumping to conclusions are we?

No, making observations based on what you say.

 

It's like you said, I can only draw conclusions from what you write.

Ah, then it is your judgement that is at fault here.

[Logan]

I think it was a relative statement.  It was more nonlinear than BG2, NWN, and KOTOR.  In a sense it was more widopen because you had the freedom to go to alot of places on the map because of the wilderness areas as opposed to what BG2, NWN and KOTOR did where you can only go places that the game has opened up for you.  In all three of those actually, you're kind of forced to go along the main quest just to open up more areas to explore.

I disagree.

 

BG1

-escape from candlekeep part1

-you have to clear the mines before you can get to the bandit camp

-clear the bandit camp before going to the cloakwood

-clear the second mines before getting into the city

-deal with being poisoned before you die

-escape from candlekeep part2

-confront sarevok before getting the endgame sequence.

 

BG2

-exit the start dungeon

-Free to roam in chapter 2 for easily 70% of the game content

-Go to asylum to begin the end-game sequences Asylum->Saugin->underdark(somewhat non-linear area)->Amn->elven village->end game

 

I dont understand why everyone claims BG2 was too linear, I played at least 10-15 different games, most of them I spent 30-40hrs in chapter2 and then just started a new game. There were so many non-plot quests in chapter2 (all of the city, the beholder in the temple district, the planar quest, the ranger quest/shadow dragon, red dragon quest, druid quest, trading city place, stupid castle with trolls, ect, ect.) how is this any less open than the wilderness in BG1?, I guess the main difference is that you travelled directly between maps instead of exploring mostly empty wilderness.

 

(the following is a public service announcement, not directed at Iolo)

All the negativity about KOTOR makes me wonder if you ever play a game that you truely enjoy, or maybe the games of yesteryear loom so great in your memory that any game released today just doesn't cut it.

 

Also if you played KOTOR too many times it is nobodies fault but your own.

 

I can't imagine what the developers think of the general tone here regarding KOTOR, especially if they are making the sequel. Bunch of know it all ingrates who will likely tear apart whatever they make with completely unrealistic requests and criticisms.

 

sorry for the rant, I just can't stand the obnoxious armchair developers that dominate this board.

 

Logan

[Karzak]

You misrepresent BG1 vs BG2. In both you had the same linearity, in BG1 you had huge area's you could explore at any time, even without advancing the plot. The plot advance in BG2 is just as linear.

[Darque]

You need some linearity, if only to advance the plot.

You assume the plot is worth advancing.

If you don't like RPGs why are you even here to discuss them?

LOL, jumping to conclusions are we?

No, making observations based on what you say.

 

It's like you said, I can only draw conclusions from what you write.

Ah, then it is your judgement that is at fault here.

Or maybe your presentation

[Sargallath Abraxium]

You misrepresent BG1 vs BG2. In both you had the same linearity, in BG1 you had huge area's you could explore at any time, even without advancing the plot. The plot advance in BG2 is just as linear.

...there was a plot in SoA???...damn, I musta missed that wit' the endless amount o' mindless side-questin'...was it MacBeth???... <_<

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Tigranes]

there was a plot in SoA???

Yeah. What do you think comprises the entire second half of the game?

 

damn, I musta missed that wit' the endless amount o' mindless side-questin'

 

You mean Chapter 2? Where you dont even have to do half of those sidequests?

 

was it MacBeth???

 

Was that an attempt to start yet another pointless I hate Karzak war?