cbs poll on evolution vs. creationism

[Commissar]

We had a few guys like that back in college, too.  And a couple more at finishing school. 

 

Your example with the restaurant or movie doesn't really hold up, though.  My buddy could tell me about a great place to eat downtown.  That's fine.  Let's say I go, and end up not liking it.  Now, if he keeps telling me about how great it is, and I tell him that I didn't like it and don't intend to go back, and he still doesn't shut up...guess how annoying that'd get?  And that's over a restaurant. 

 

But hell, let's push it one step further.  What if some of my buddy's fellow restaurant proponents started trying to get items from their favorite restaurant to replace stuff on the menus at every other restaurant in town?  I'd be pretty ticked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think about your friend who wouldn't give up until you actually went to see the movie with him and how enthusiastic he was about this; and that's just over a film. This is about the question. The ultimate question. The answer to life, universe and everything. He wouldn't be much of a friend if he ever gives up on persuading you about that (unless you persuade him to see things through your point of view first).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Know what it boils down to for me?

 

It's insulting. Coming up to me and trying to change my mind suggests a doubt in yours that I've come to my conclusions about religion through anything but reason. It's superiority, the very superiority that Eldar claims atheists display towards Christians. It's telling me that I don't know how to properly live my life without the assistance of a manual written by antediluvian Middle Easterners.

[Atreides]

Well I don't live in the US so I have about the same exposure to Christian fundamentalists bitching as do I have access to atheists bitching about the Christian fundamentalists. Actually if anything it's the latter that outnumber the former. They're annoy me around the same level.

[Cantousent]

antediluvian Middle Easterners.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I laughed out loud. Bastard. :Eldar's guffawing icon:

 

EDIT: Oh, and I love the Sig, Atreides.

Edited November 8, 2005 by Eldar

[Commissar]

That wacky God, planting more evidence to throw us off the real track.

 

A gigantic ape standing 10 feet tall and weighing up to 1,200 pounds lived alongside humans for over a million years, according to a new study.

 

Fortunately for the early humans, the huge primate's diet consisted mainly of bamboo.

 

Scientists have known about Gigantopithecus blackii since the accidental discovery of some of its teeth on sale in a Hong Kong pharmacy about 80 years ago. While the idea of a giant ape piqued the interest of scientists

[Atreides]

Looks like the bigfoot enthusiasts are too late.

 

@Eldar, thanks

[julianw]

Probably not related but a nice little story that gives people hope:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051107/wl_nm/mideast_donor_dc

 

At least it gives me hope that as long as we love humanity, the different religions can coexist peacefully.

[Cantousent]

Days of hunger and pain and I still get choked up over silly things. I should just stop reading the message board at night because, clearly, I am a sissy.

 

You simply cannot love God if you hate humanity.

[Blank]

Mothman, Eldar and Blank - "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." My suggestion: defend your faith when necessary but do so with a gladdened heart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thx for the reminder : ) I am actually really enjoying this thread, reading it and inputting my own opinions.

 

And I am also disgusted with the fact that priests have molested children, and other people who are not believers in Christianity are what I would consider people with better values. In the end though, it is unfortunate that the non-Christians with better morals are still under the wrath of God, since their sins have not been forgiven them. Will the priest still go to heaven? well, his sins have been absolved by the blood of Jesus Christ, so i believe, even though he is much more deprave compared to what he should be, he would still go to heaven. In heaven though, his actions on earth will be judged, and God may not reward him as much as He would to a more rightous person.

 

God rewarding Christians in heaven is not so the Christians can have more glory, but it is for the Christians to have something of value to give back to God as an offering (such as the elders casting down their crowns before the Lord). And Christians will choose to do that because then they will see God in His true infinite glory.

 

So it is dissappointing for me to accept that good people who are not saved from their sins will still go to hell. Does that mean God is unjust? First of all, I consider whatever God does to be the definition of "just". Secondly though, I also believe that God gives everyone a chance to accept Christ as their saviour. Many people say the flaw in this belief is: What about people on a remote island who are untouched by any outside influence and therefore can't hear the gospel? My answer to that is: Did Abraham hear the gospel? No he didn't, but in Hebrews it says he is justified by his faith, and God accounted that to him for rightousness. And the people on a remote island or whatever who have never heard the gospel are still without excuse as it says in the book of Romans.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities

Edited November 9, 2005 by Blank

[Dark Moth]

I'm sometimes a little torn between an unbeliever's place in heaven. The Bible states "I am the way, the truth, and the life, nobody comes to the father except through me." Can that be interpreted as you have to believe in Jesus to get into heaven, or when it comes down to the decision, the judgement rests through Jesus. Don't forget, supposedly it is because of his sacrifice we can get into heaven. Perhaps that is what it implies?

 

Because I know a lot of good, non-Christian people. I would like to think God would not send these people to hell simply because they did not follow Christianity. And what about those who never heard of Christianity in the first place? What would God do about them? Also, Jesus did say "Not everyone who comes to me saying 'Lord, Lord' will enter heaven" or something like that (I unfortunately do not have my Bible on hand).

 

BTW Commissar, you say you object to me explaining why I'm right? I think's it's pretty absurd to make a claim without even backing it up. state I hardly think trying to back up my faith deserves to be criticized by you. It's hardly adequate to say "I believe this" and leave it at that. Naturally, I think you'd want to back up your point of view as well.

 

*sigh* And I was hoping this thread had died.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Mothman

[Blank]

Think about your friend who wouldn't give up until you actually went to see the movie with him and how enthusiastic he was about this; and that's just over a film. This is about the question. The ultimate question. The answer to life, universe and everything. He wouldn't be much of a friend if he ever gives up on persuading you about that (unless you persuade him to see things through your point of view first).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I consider that to be a really mature viewpoint, i.e. it is looking at the motives behind the actions. I have heard some people ask other Christians who don't do much to evanglalise,"if you think everyone without Jesus is going to hell, and you are just sitting here doing nothing about it, it's the same as if you sat at a bus stop watching people walk into the middle of the road to get hit by the bus and you aren't doing anything to stop them." Looking at it that way, a non-Christian looking to find flaws with Christians would have extra proof to use for saying Christians are hypocrites, just because the Christians aren't evangalising.

[SteveThaiBinh]

So it is dissappointing for me to accept that good people who are not saved from their sins will still go to hell.

Doesn't this mean than that there aren't any good people except for Christians? Only Christians can be good. All who don't share the Christian faith are wicked, because:

... men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them

This kind of idea always struck me as odd, because it seems intolerant and unjust, yet most Christians that I know personally are tolerant and caring people, often committed to inter-faith dialogue and helping their fellow man. How do you reconcile these two opposing positions?

[Baley]

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities

[Dark Moth]

This from the guy touting the moral superiority of Satanism.

[Gabrielle]

christianity is evil. They preach tolorance and love thy neighbor. My ass they do.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Gabrielle

[Baley]

This from the guy touting the moral superiority of Satanism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't tell me you're agreeing with him?

 

And when exactly did I tout the moral superiority of religious Satanism?

 

I'm dissapointed.

[Dark Moth]

christianity is evil. They preach tolorance and love they neighbor. My ass they do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Boring. We've been over this countless times before. Come up with a Bible verse that actually justifies that, then come back to me. Otherwise, don't make ignorant posts.

 

@Baley: I never said anything about agreeing with him, I just found it rather ironic after you claimed Satanism held a higher moral platform earlier in the thread. And true Satanism is religious. Satanism that does not acknowledge the devil or his existance is not true Satanism. Rather, it is just a belief with Satanic philosophies.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Mothman

[Blank]

You're giving Christianity a bad name.

What's next? Was the Holocaust god's will too?

 

If ignorant as---les like yourself inhabit heaven,I'll gladly spend eternity in hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey now, I was definitely not saying,"AIDS IS CUZ GOD IS PUNISHING HOMOSEXUALS!" I was merely invoking the thought: "i guess that AIDS seems like a possible punishment from God since the text says,'Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.' " Sorry, but i always thought that was an interesting verse because it is a possibility to explain something that people don't know the reason for.

 

So it is dissappointing for me to accept that good people who are not saved from their sins will still go to hell.

Doesn't this mean than that there aren't any good people except for Christians? Only Christians can be good. All who don't share the Christian faith are wicked, because:

... men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them

This kind of idea always struck me as odd, because it seems intolerant and unjust, yet most Christians that I know personally are tolerant and caring people, often committed to inter-faith dialogue and helping their fellow man. How do you reconcile these two opposing positions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not saying that one cannot do a rightous act if they are not Christian. I actually said there are good people who don't have Christ: "So it is dissappointing for me to accept that good people who are not saved from their sins will still go to hell." So sorry if i sounded like i was saying "YOU ARE ALWAYS WRONG IF YOU DON'T HAVE JESUS AND I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN DO THE RIGHT THING ALONG WITH OTHER CHRISTIANS", because I certainly did not mean that.

[Gabrielle]

Boring. We've been over this countless times before. Come up with a Bible verse that actually justifies that, then come back to me. Otherwise, don't make ignorant posts.

You ignorant f*ck, it's people like you that sent millions of innocent people to the stake because your god is a jeolous god and any other form of religion must be stamped out, whatever the cost may be. Thou shall not suffer a witch to live ring a bell?

 

It's because of these damned god religions is why the world is in a f*cked state of affairs. You make war on one another because your god is right or your god told you it was his will to do so. Your damned religion can't live in harmony with nature, you are too busy destroying it for your own selfish goals. Don't tell me I'm goddamned ignorant.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Gabrielle

[Blank]

I really struck a nerve there : (

Sorry again... but what i said doesn't attack anybody directly. Like i said before, it is a possibility that i thought was interesting. So if you think that suggesting possibilities for unexplained things is wrong, then what was the point of this whole thread? (e.g. How did the world and humans get here? One possibility is in the Bible: God created the world and humans. OR How did AIDS come into being? On possibility is in the Bible: there is a punishment for men commiting indecent acts with other men, and that might be AIDS.)

[WITHTEETH]

The bible also teaches compassion. I suggest you read more of those parts. Lets not look for reasons to justify hating another group.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I am not saying that one cannot do a rightous act if they are not Christian.

No, I realise that you're not saying that, but I'm suggesting that the text may be. It seems to me to support a very unpleasant interpretation, that the truth of God is suppressed by the wickedness of man, and therefore anyone who denies God is wicked. It's possible that the passage can be interpreted in other ways, so as a non-Christian and non-expert, I'd like to know how moderate Christians interpret this passage from the Bible.

[Dark Moth]

@ Mothman You ignorant f*ck, it's people like you that sent millions of innocent people to the stake because your god is a jeolous god and any other form of religion must be stamped out, whatever the cost may be.  Thou shall not suffer a witch to live ring a bell?

 

It's because of these damned god religions is why the world is in a f*cked state of affairs. You make war on one another because your god is right or your god told you it was his will to do so. Your damned religion can't live in harmony with nature, you are too busy destroying it for your own selfish goals. Don't tell me I'm goddamned ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I'm sorry if you feel that way. But that is exactly what you're being right now. Did ever occur to you that it's humanity's fault, not God or the religion's fault? As I've said, come up with a Bible verse that actually justifies the inquisition or the witch burnings. Otherwise, don't you dare say that Christianity sanctions things like that, unless you're actually prepared to back it up.

 

@Blank: She was referring to me.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Mothman

[Blank]

@ Mothman You ignorant f*ck, it's people like you that sent millions of innocent people to the stake because your god is a jeolous god and any other form of religion must be stamped out, whatever the cost may be.  Thou shall not suffer a witch to live ring a bell?

 

It's because of these damned god religions is why the world is in a f*cked state of affairs. You make war on one another because your god is right or your god told you it was his will to do so. Your damned religion can't live in harmony with nature, you are too busy destroying it for your own selfish goals. Don't tell me I'm goddamned ignorant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're joking right? Didn't we already discuss that because people claim to be following a religion doesn't always mean that they and their actions represent the religion itself. I am sure most people agree with me when I say that just because there are extremist muslims, doesn't mean that they are the only ones who represent what Islam is.

[Commissar]

As I've said, come up with a Bible verse that actually justifies the inquisition or the witch burnings. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ex. 22:18.

[Gabrielle]

Malleus Maleficarum go preach to the ignorant.