Legalize Pot

[Commissar]

That's where all this came from. Once more, for the record, EMTs don't check to see if the guy who went through his windshield has insurance before they treat him.

 

Which was just a clarification from my "I don't think anyone should be denied care" post. I never thought it wasn't clear to begin with, but whatever.

 

I do think it's unfortunate that you think it's fine to deny the fellow service however.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's fine if the majority of the country decides it's too cheap to foot the bill to keep somebody alive.

[Commissar]

hahaha.  Too bad marijuana is illagal.  Commissar could use some now that we've driven up his blood pressure.  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It ain't up yet. If Numbers wanders by the thread, though, then I'll be worried. Doubtlessly I'll be reported for condoning killing people who've crashed their cars, and I think we all know how that'd end, Captain Avatar.

[Cantousent]

I'd have to issue you another official warning to go with the rest of them. Then again, I might just say we've gone a bit afield from legalizing pot. I guess we're somewhat related, though, so I won't split just yet. Still, I wonder if we've completely played out the marijuana topic.

[213374U]

If Numbers wanders by the thread, though, then I'll be worried.  Doubtlessly I'll be reported for condoning killing people who've crashed their cars, and I think we all know how that'd end, Captain Avatar.

What, are you trying to be funny or something?

 

Sorry pal, some people just aren't cut out for that. I believe that trolling is what you do best, in a non-subtle, non-funny, inane way. But then again, I've seen better at that, too. Mediocrity would be the word here.

 

And hey, how about you drop it now, before you force the mods to delete your posts. It's a fine thread and it wouldn't be fair to have it locked just because you're spamming it.

[Cantousent]

Children, we have plenty of room for trolls in this thread. Commissar and numbers are here. I'm here. Volourn could show up. You guys aren't each other's alternate accounts, are you?

 

Anyhow, I am serious, I want more pot talk and less potty talk.

[Gabrielle]

I want opium talk. Make those pretty poppies legal.

[Walsingham]

I just remembered some reasearch I saw a while back suggesting that computer games should be re-defined as a substance of abuse. For the escapist qualities and the atrophying of body and social contacts that accompanies chronic playing. Remember that when we fight for the rights of pot smokers we fight for our own as well.

[EnderAndrew]

Smoking pot is the same as playing a game?

 

I think that is really stretching it.

[Walsingham]

Not really. And I'm not saying that _I_ agree. I'm saying thee are plenty of people who would like to see the two things as equivalent, and would be 'up' for banning computer games.

 

First They Came for the Jews

 

First they came for the Jews

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out

because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left

to speak out for me.

 

 

Pastor Martin Niem

[EnderAndrew]

Now you draw parallels to video games and the Holocaust.

 

Now you're REALLY stretching.

 

I haven't even seen a single person suggest that all video games be banned. The extreme fundamentalists merely called for stores to not carry a game they felt was contraversial. In a capitalistic society, people make economic choices all the time to support things or not support them.

[Walsingham]

It was a _little_ mendacious. "

 

But I do believe the point is valid. If we abrogate the right of people to escape into drugs when there is no clinical evidence that says it is directly harmful or addictive then how long can it be before people begin abrogating other means of escape? And computer games already constitute an addiction, with clinics and specialists to help people trying to cut down. If not, explain the people leaving their kids to rot while playing WoW?

 

The point is that, as you say, an individual should have the right to choose their own destiny up to a point. I'm not saying pot should be manadatory or even used daily or anything. I'm just saying that we are wasting resources badly needed elsewhere, and guilty of hypocrisy when we prescribe opiate painkillers over hashish.

[EnderAndrew]

There is no clinical evidence it is harmful or addictive?

 

What are you smoking?

[Walsingham]

There is no clinical evidence it is harmful or addictive?

 

What are you smoking?

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The British Medical Journal.

[EnderAndrew]

There are doctors who have gone on record saying tobacco presents no known health risks as well.

 

Given the obscene number of doctors who insist that marijuana has more carcinogens, and is more dangerous than tobacco, I think I am skeptical when a lone report says otherwise.

 

And pot is most definately addictive.

[Commissar]

There are doctors who have gone on record saying tobacco presents no known health risks as well.

 

Given the obscene number of doctors who insist that marijuana has more carcinogens, and is more dangerous than tobacco, I think I am skeptical when a lone report says otherwise.

 

And pot is most definately addictive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then it has one hell of a high threshold and the mildest withdrawal symptoms I've ever known.

[Walsingham]

We are not talking about a few here. We are talking about THE journal for the British Medical establishment. If you really insist I will try to find the issue and so forth, but i'll only do so if you swear to actually read it. Otherwise I'm going to ask you take my word since it woudl be a really stupid way to lie.

 

The BMJ concluded there was no evidence that marijuana was physiologically addictive (psych addictive is something else), and could not be regarded as harmful to health, especially when compared with alcohol or tobacco. The review did discuss some of the studies which have shown harmful effects and their conclusion was that the institutes responsible were 'contaminated' by funding from right-wing think tanks who had been funding eugenics programs. By itself this might not be so bad, but the fact that no studies showing harm had arisen outside these groups was suspicious.

 

EDIT: a colleague also pointed out that dope use in Holland (where it is legal) has actually fallen, and is far lower than the US, where the penalties are among the harshest in the world.

[julianw]

EDIT: a colleague also pointed out that dope use in Holland (where it is legal) has actually fallen, and is far lower than the US, where the penalties are among the harshest in the world.

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Well, nobody said that people in US are smart. Also the population is much larger here.

[EnderAndrew]

No one would argue that marijuana is as addictive as alcohol or cocaine. However, it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users.

 

For a small percentage of people who use it, marijuana can be highly addictive. It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent. More than 120,000 people in the US seek treatment for marijuana addiction every year. Because the consequences of marijuana use can be subtle and insidious, it is more difficult to recognize signs of addiction. Cultural and societal beliefs that marijuana cannot be addictive make it less likely for people to seek help or to get support for quitting.

 

That isn't from some government anti-pot website or anything, but rather from a study down at Brown University, an Ivy League institution.

[EnderAndrew]

Are there short-term dangers of smoking marijuana?

Discomforts associated with smoking marijuana include dry mouth, dry eyes, increased heart rate and visible signs of intoxication such as bloodshot eyes and puffy eyelids. Other problems include:

 

 

Impaired memory and ability to learn

Difficulty thinking and problem solving

Anxiety attacks or feelings of paranoia

Impaired muscle coordination and judgment

Increased susceptibility to infections

Dangerous impairment of driving skills. Studies show that it impairs braking time, attention to traffic signals and other driving behaviors.

Cardiac problems for people with heart disease or high blood pressure, because marijuana increases the heart rate

It is virtually impossible to overdose from marijuana, which sets it apart from most drugs.

 

Are there long-term consequences to smoking marijuana?

Respiratory problems

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly can have many of the same respiratory problems as cigarette smokers. Persistent coughing, symptoms of bronchitis and more frequent chest colds are possible symptoms. There are over 400 chemicals that have been found in marijuana smoke. Benzyprene, a known human carcinogen, is present in marijuana smoke. Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide are 3 to 5 times higher than in cigarette smoke. This is most likely due to inhaling marijuana more deeply, holding the smoke in the lungs and because marijuana smoke is unfiltered.

 

Memory and learning

Recent research shows that regular marijuana use compromises the ability to learn and to remember information by impairing the ability to focus, sustain, and shift attention. One study also found that long-term use reduces the ability to organize and integrate complex information.

 

In addition, marijuana impairs short-term memory and decreases motivation to accomplish tasks, even after the high is over. In one study, even small doses impaired the ability to recall words from a list seen 20 minutes earlier.

 

Fertility

Long-term marijuana use suppresses the production of hormones that help regulate the reproductive system. For men, this can cause decreased sperm counts and very heavy users can experience erectile dysfunction. Women may experience irregular periods from heavy marijuana use. These problems would most likely result in a decreased ability to conceive but not lead to complete infertility.

[Shryke]

For men, this can cause decreased sperm counts and very heavy users can experience erectile dysfunction.

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one more reason to point at laugh at my friends who smoke weed

[LadyCrimson]

I say...definitely de-criminalize it. I think it's silly to toss people in jail just for possessing a dime-bag in their glove box.

 

As to whether it's harmful or addictive...everything is harmful if you consume enough of it, and most people are not addicted to pot in the sense that they have a very difficult time stopping for lengthy periods of time if they wish to (ie, unlike nicotine).

I've known pot-smokers from all walks of life, rich to middle-class to poor, from blue collar to white-collar, young to old. Daily users and 'social' users who'd get high several times a year or something (and never increased that useage despite years of continuing).

 

If a person has an obsessive and addictive personality, they may get very psychologically addicted to being stoned - but then, those are the people who are likely to get potentially over-addicted to anything that provides mental escape (that includes games, haha). You do not have to be a physical alcoholic (one that can't metabolize the alcohol sugars or however that works, it's been a long long time since I read up on it) to be a pyschologically escape-addicted every-day problem drinker type of alcoholic.

For these type of people, almost ANY drug that they have a 1st-time, positive experience with can be a 'starter' drug - whether it's pot, caffeine, nicotine, cocaine, or sniffing glue in Wal-Mart.

 

And yup, of course if you smoke it a lot, you can get what some people call 'pot cough' - this is partly because of the way people smoke it - inhale deeply till the lungs are over-full and hold it, hold it, hold it as long as possible. By contrast, cigarette smokers generally inhale more lightly and do not hold it in more than half a second. In fact, I've seen non-cig smokers who smoke pot who have worse coughs and more constant sore-throats than 10-20 year pack a day smokers. Course, cigs are much more likely to give you actual lung cancer, but I digress.

 

In terms of medicinal useage - my sister is a doctor (she works a lot with 3rd world/low income women, she's not a rich spoiled surgeon, haha) and she wants it legalized for that purpose. My cousin-in-law has very bad rheumatoid arthritis, where she can barely walk and is on chemo half the time and recently they mixed drugs and she lost half her bone mass and she uses pot in the evenings to help her relax/sleep. If someone is terminally ill or something almost as severe, and it makes them feel better, leave them alone and let them. The FBI certainly shouldn't be knocking down their doors.

 

Bah...that ran a lot longer than I meant it to.

 

And if you're wondering...no, I don't use it...although I did for a couple years in my mid-twenties. Was fun, got boring, I stopped, haven't used it in years. Addictive? Nope, not for me. No problem stopping at all. Time/life-wasting? Oh most certainly. But then, in a way, so is playing video games... live and let live as they say.

[EnderAndrew]

Laws vary from state to state but in Nebraska, which has very stiff laws, you get a ticket for owning a dime bag, not jail time.

[Qazplm]

I think that all drugs should be illigal. Even alcahol and tobaco and other legal drugs that are not used for medical reasons.

[Judge Hades]

I think that all drugs, such as MJ and cocaine, should be legal The main draw of them is the fact that it is illegal. Lets break the law and not get caught mentality and the cash involved is the main draws to it.

 

Eliminate the thrill and money then the drug problem, for the most part, would go away.

[LadyCrimson]

Laws vary from state to state but in Nebraska, which has very stiff laws, you get a ticket for owning a dime bag, not jail time.

 

Oh fine...semantics...I think my point that it should not be illegal just to posses it was clear enough. :D

Sure, if you're stoned and driving, an arrest for driving under influence is suitable. But for having it or even smoking it while sitting out in your backyard? Something that marks you as having a 'criminal record?' Nah.

 

The illegal = forbidden excitment also is a good point, for many cases. But I don't think that's really the biggest cause...I mean...booze is legal, and I don't exactly see that harming the booze business/drunk driving problem much... :ph34r: