FF7 and thoughts about current politics...

[Calax]

I was going through FF7 again and realized somthing, AVALANCE is nothing more and nothing less than what we americans consider a Terrorist movement.

 

1) they don't fight using conventional means

2) they don't really pay heed to civilian casualties

3) they are fighting a corrupt government (arguments could be made that the current gvmnt is corrupt)

4) they think that they are doing it for the right reasons.

 

Anyway I find it quite funny that FF7 you consider the AVALANCE to be a heroic group of people and yet when you see it in the real world it's considered terrorism.

[Cantousent]

As you've described, AVALANCE are terrorists.

 

Still, people can manage to torture logic so that the terrorists are the equivalent of minutemen. Clearly, looking at both groups, the minutemen were not like the terrorists of today.

 

Folks with an agenda will often claim equivalency between two disparate groups. That's all well and good, but it is intellectually dishonest.

 

So, I've never played the game, but AVALANCE may very well be terrorists. I see actual terrorism as a bad thing, and I see attempts to spin terrorism into something good as an affront to logic.

 

That's just my opinion, though.

[Calax]

They say they are saving the planet by blowing up a bunch of "Mako Reactors". Because the Mako reactors siphon off the life energy from the planet, they feel justified. The group is a bunch of terrorists but the main gameing population supports them because they play from the perspective of one of the group rather than one of the government.

 

From our perspective as americans we see things from the other direction, thus we hit the point of saying that the people who do this sort of thing are ultimatly wrong. I think that were we invaded by another country, I don't think we'd worry too much about what was a military target and what was a civilian target because we'd have incomplete intelligence, limited supplies, minimal personell, and we'd have to do this in secret. othewise we'd be sent to a prison. I'm not saying we'd target the civies specifically, but because we were dealing with an invader on our soil we'd target those PERCIEVED as "aiding and abbeting" the foreign power. Or the real Zelous among the "resistance" target anyone whos not fighing...

 

Ultimatly we'd hit whatever we could when we could if only to keep ourselves in the spotlight.

[Cantousent]

I also see a difference between targetting something and knowing that civilians are there and targetting civilians for the purpose of terror. Of course, there was a huge discussion of this in thread around here somewhere. I should probably buy the game and play it.

[Guest Fishboot]

Wasn't it a plot point that

AVALANCE was playing into Shinra's hands

? It's been a long while since I fired up a Playstation.

[kumquatq3]

As you've described, AVALANCE are terrorists.

 

Still, people can manage to torture logic so that the terrorists are the equivalent of minutemen. 

 

 

I'd call minutemen the original guerrillas, not so much terrorists.

 

They used surprise/ambush for terror/fear, but generally stop there.

[213374U]

To put it bluntly, if a group achieves their objectives and becomes victorious, they are freedom fighters and heroes of the people, as their heirs get to write History. Otherwise, they are just terrorists.

[alanschu]

As you say, history is written by the winners of wars.

[Azarkon]

The winners write history. Then a hundred years down the line the revisionists come along and lambast the winners, but that's just the guilt talking. What's done is done, and from the perspective of military and political leaders, that is what justifies any tactic.

[EnderAndrew]

Often the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters is targetting civilians as opposed to the government.

 

In FF7 you fight a government. The terrorists we fight today murder innocent civilians.

 

There is a movie coming out called V for Vendetta which is worrying some because the protagonist is being described as a terrorist, where as he only targets the government.

 

I believe that to be an important distinction that most people seem to routinely miss.

[jaguars4ever]

Often the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters is targetting civilians as opposed to the government.

Yet Islamic organisations who target military targets (e.g. pre-911 Al Queda-->USS Cole), were/are still considered terrorists.

 

Alternatively, many who target foreign military targets in their own country are labelled as "insurgents" (e.g. Iraq).

 

Note - in both cases, the converse isn't necessarily true. That is, all terrorists don't always target military organizations, and all insurgents don't always derive from said country.

[EnderAndrew]

I agree that distinction is not always made, but I think it should be.

 

Otherwise the heroes of our own Revolutionary War are in fact terrorists.

[jaguars4ever]

I agree that distinction is not always made, but I think it should be.

 

Otherwise the heroes of our own Revolutionary War are in fact terrorists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From the perspective of the British at that time, yes.

 

(Though that word wasn't really used. "Rebels" or "tea-haters" was probably the norm)

[Child of Flame]

 

I do believe the term you are looking for is 'Yank' good sir.

[jaguars4ever]

 

I do believe the term you are looking for is 'Yank' good sir.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah - those Limeys still call us that. :D

[Calax]

Wasn't it a plot point that

AVALANCE was playing into Shinra's hands

? It's been a long while since I fired up a Playstation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, they wern't it's just the government wanted to be rid of them, figured out where they were and promply dropped a sector of the city on them. then turned the spin machine to full power and reversed the roles (shinra doing the attempt to save and Avalance trying to drop the plate.

 

And yes you are all right, the Winners write the history books, but I'm not entirly sure that you would consider could and co. to be the type to write their own history books for a government. but we'll see in Advent Children (WOO HOO THIS MONTH IT"S COMING OUT! And they only have enough for preorders (they are worried that Spirits within will happen again...))

[Calax]

boy, talk about mod tools. FF7 has one of the biggest communitys for modding ive ever seen!

 

sombody decided to go though and make a High Rez version of cloud!

 

and they went and made a "invincible" version of cloud for the very beginning! (max stats max everything!)

 

http://www.ff7-universe.com/Download.html

[Serious Callers Only]

In fact in FFVIII, your team is supposted to asassinate a foreign ruler.

 

Final fantasy games are full of these sort of things. But i never considered the gits heroic anyway.

[Azarkon]

Often the difference between terrorism and freedom fighters is targetting civilians as opposed to the government.

 

In FF7 you fight a government.  The terrorists we fight today murder innocent civilians.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Government workers are not civilians? Corporate workers are not civilians? You kill both in FF7, alongside the handful of corporate/government leaders.

 

What are civilians then? People who don't work and stay at home?

[metadigital]

I do believe the term you are looking for is 'Yank' good sir.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah - those Limeys still call us that. :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would think those confederates would not like to be referred to as "Yanks" ...

[EnderAndrew]

Given that the British don't eat limes anymore (as scurvy isn't the issue it once was) I think the term Limey is just as misplaced as Yank, if not more so.

[metadigital]

Yeah, you hav'ta call 'em POMs.

[EnderAndrew]

Still people use the term Limey none the less...

[metadigital]

It was said that the confederates were unhappy that Vivien Leigh wasn't from the South, but then they were happy that she was English, as that was better than being a Yankee ...

[kalimeeri]

I also see a difference between targetting something and knowing that civilians are there and targetting civilians for the purpose of terror.  Of course, there was a huge discussion of this in thread around here somewhere.  I should probably buy the game and play it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

This is one of the few games Square put out for PC as well, if you can find it. I picked up my daughter's copy at EB Games. You will need a USB controller, though; it does not respond to mouse and keyboard.