sorting things, Kreia/Kae

[julianw]

Is it just me or is Kreia hot? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's just you.

[metadigital]

It's a pity the Jedi Masters, when they see Kreia, don't call out her name ... "

[Knights&Darths]

don't call out her name

they say something just as revealing "

[Enha_Dyone]

Moreover, Mical never said that Kae was Revan's first master...It is said that she was one of them, and he never said that Revan came back to Kae as she died at the end of the mandalorians wars...Am I right?

[dufflover]

Kreia, especially hood off just looks like a monster.

[Jediphile]

Moreover, Mical never said that Kae was Revan's first master...It is said that she was one of them, and he never said that Revan came back to Kae as she died at the end of the mandalorians wars...Am I right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, the quote is this:

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled."

 

Judge for yourself...

[Enha_Dyone]

Well, the quote is this:

 

Disciple: "Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled."

 

Judge for yourself...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then it is the "Kae/Kreia" theory is almost entirely based on assumptions... :D

Do you have all lines written in K2?

[Jediphile]

Then it is the "Kae/Kreia" theory is almost entirely based on assumptions... :D

Do you have all lines written in K2?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

We all do - it's just a matter of digging through the dialog.tlk file for them. It's more difficult to identify them and to see what was in the game and what was cut content. I usually identify it by phrases I hear in the game (and which are therefore obviously not cut content)...

 

The lines about Kae I pay attention to, because her background is such a mystery.

 

But it is speculation, yes. All arguments against Kreia being Kae can be explained, at least that I've heard, but I'm also confident that we'd have found the smoking gun by now if it was there...

[Enha_Dyone]

But it is speculation, yes. All arguments against Kreia being Kae can be explained, at least that I've heard, but I'm also confident that we'd have found the smoking gun by now if it was there... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

ok, no more presumption there then

[Knights&Darths]

Disciple- As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that. And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had

 

Kreia- He came to me, yes. Both before and after, before Revan knew himself. And after, in the times when Revan was coming into his own and learning he was more than he had been told. At one time, Revan was my Padawan. In times past, long ago. But Revan, when he had learned all he could, had other masters... that fool Zhar, and other Jedi on other planets. He learned from each. But in the end, he turned back to me. When he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi - except how one could leave them forever

 

 

There is simply too much evidence about Kreia being Arren Kae, and NONE about her being not. I'll try to sort things out:

1-Both neutralsiders

2-Both teachers on Dantooine

3-Both were Revan's first and last master

4-Both fought in the mandalorian wars after being exiled and were thought to be dead

5-Both were mysteriously wiped from the memories of the jedi masters, and from Mical's and Brianna's, not to mention the Exile's

6-Both have deep knowledge of the echani traditions and rituals

7-Brianna (aka Handmaiden) was a teenager when Kae was exiled, about ten years later we have a 50-60 years old woman that could easily be her mother and if one looks for it he'll find they share more than white braids, betrayal, cryptic talk and majestic attitude

[Enha_Dyone]

1-Both neutralsiders ==> It has never been said that Kae was neutralsider

 

2-Both teachers (on Dantooine???)

 

3-Both were Revan's first and last master==> It has never been said that Kae was revan's master after the war.

 

4-Both fought in the mandalorian wars after being exiled and were thought to be dead==> when did Kreia fight against mandalorians?

 

5-Both were mysteriously wiped from the memories of the jedi masters, and from Mical's and Brianna's, not to mention the Exile's==> ok

 

6-Both have deep knowledge of the echani traditions and rituals==> Kreia has an echani knowledge?

 

7-Brianna (aka Handmaiden) was a teenager when Kae was exiled, about ten years later we have a 50-60 years old woman that could easily be her mother and if one looks for it he'll find they share more than white braids, betrayal, cryptic talk and majestic attitude==> ok

[Jediphile]

There is simply too much evidence about Kreia being Arren Kae, and NONE about her being not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed, but even if I think Kreia is Arren Kae, I must admit that all the evidence is circumstantial - there is no smoking gun, just an awful lot of details that support the theory.

 

2-Both teachers on Dantooine

3-Both were Revan's first and last master

4-Both fought in the mandalorian wars after being exiled and were thought to be dead

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not sure either of them was on Dantooine, and nobody mentions Kae after the Mandalorian Wars, since she is presumed to have died on Malachor V.

 

5-Both were mysteriously wiped from the memories of the jedi masters, and from Mical's and Brianna's, not to mention the Exile's

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Clearly Disciple remembers her, and Handmaiden does too - she just never knew her mother. I think she was Kae until Malachor V, then became Darth Traya, letting everyone think Kae was dead. When she was then cast out by Sion and Nihilus, she "created" the "Kreia" persona from those two - K(ae)+(T)raya=Kraya=Kreia.

 

6-Both have deep knowledge of the echani traditions and rituals

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good point, since while that would seem obvious for Kae, given her relationship with Yusanis, it would not be so for Kreia.

 

7-Brianna (aka Handmaiden) was a teenager when Kae was exiled, about ten years later we have a 50-60 years old woman that could easily be her mother and if one looks for it he'll find they share more than white braids, betrayal, cryptic talk and majestic attitude

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes. And as Atton said: "I mean, how old do you think she is? She may have been good-looking once, but it takes some hard living to make creases like that."

[Jediphile]

when did Kreia fight against mandalorians?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In the Mandalorian Wars, just like Kae. Note the comments when she reveals herself to the jedi council on Dantooine, when they sentence the Exile. When she enters, the masters react like this:

 

Vrook: "Wh-?

 

Kreia: "Step away! He has brought truth, and you condemn it? The arrogance!You will not harm him. You will not harm him ever again."

 

Kavar: "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars..."

 

Kreia: "Die? No - became stronger, yes."

 

Vrook: "Is this your new Master, exile? If so, then you follow Revan's path. Her teachings will cause you to fall as surely as he did.We sought to lure the Sith out... and now they have come to us."

 

 

Kreia has an echani knowledge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes.

 

Kreia: "Never have you wondered what it would mean in the Echani rituals if the two of you sparred and fought - and you won, completely and utterly?If perhaps she would give in, surrender herself to you? "

[Knights&Darths]

1-Both neutralsiders ==> It has never been said that Kae was neutralsider

she knew love and had a child, and her robes are light gray and with charisma bonus (typical of neutral side)

 

2-Both teachers (on Dantooine???)

Dantooine was training ground for revan and the exile (the exile lived there too before the mandalorian wars), kreia recognizes the enclave when it is rebuilt, mical too knew master kae and he lived on dantooine

 

3-Both were Revan's first and last master==> It has never been said that Kae was revan's master after the war

of course, both kreia and kae were thought to be dead after they left for the war, since kreia is definitely alive she could mention she was revan's master again after the jedi civil war (when revan was learning he was more than he had been told), the last (and first) master mical was talking about, he called her kae

 

4-Both fought in the mandalorian wars after being exiled and were thought to be dead==> when did Kreia fight against mandalorians?

when kreia reveals herself to the council, master kavar makes clear that she fought in the mandalorian wars and was thought to be dead, just like kae. no chance she didn't actually fight because she says she didn't die but became stronger for it, plus she knew in detail what happend on malachor when the mass shadow generator was activated, enough to despise bao-dur for that

 

6-Both have deep knowledge of the echani traditions and rituals==> Kreia has an echani knowledge?

one cannot know that much about echani traditions (the handmaidens sharing similar features from the same father) and rituals (the intimacy and meaning of echani duels) without being VERY close to them (yusanis)

[Dark Moth]

There is no evidence that points to Kreia being Kae. Those who say that Kreia is Handmaiden's mother are simply digging to deep into the story's plotholes. It's all pure speculation. The only reason Kae was mentioned is because they need to explain some of Kreia's past. As for Disciple's comment, he never says that Kae was Revan's first master. And Kae was exiled for having a child (Brianna), Kreia was exiled because she was blamed for Revan's fall to the darkside.

 

And also, Kreia was a historian and Jedi Master for the Jedi (before Atris took over), Kae was a Jedi Knight who, as said by the exile, died in the Mandalorian wars. And also, Kreia there is no evidence in the game or the cut content that indicates Kreia is Kae. If she was, we would have seen more evidence for it. As for both having white hair, you forget two things: Kreia is very old, and Handmaiden's white hair obviously comes from her father, because all her other sisters have white hair, also. Unbelievable that Star Wars.com has no information about Revan or Kreia, otherwise I'd post a link. I'd use the one from wikipedia, but everyone here claims it's nothing but "speculation".

 

Besides, I doubt any man would be desperate enough to make babies with Kreia.

[Krookie]

While there is a lot of evidence that Kreia is Kae, it just wouldn't happen. Although no one really expected Vader to be Luke's father... :ph34r:

[Dark Moth]

There is simply too much evidence about Kreia being Arren Kae, and NONE about her being not. I'll try to sort things out:

1-Both neutralsiders

2-Both teachers on Dantooine

3-Both were Revan's first and last master

4-Both fought in the mandalorian wars after being exiled and were thought to be dead

5-Both were mysteriously wiped from the memories of the jedi masters, and from Mical's and Brianna's, not to mention the Exile's

6-Both have deep knowledge of the echani traditions and rituals

7-Brianna (aka Handmaiden) was a teenager when Kae was exiled, about ten years later we have a 50-60 years old woman that could easily be her mother and if one looks for it he'll find they share more than white braids, betrayal, cryptic talk and majestic attitude

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. You don't know if Kae was a neutralsider, even from her robe. Don't forger: robes can be different colors, even red and blue (as seen in K1). A person can not be a Jedi and still be lightside. Lightside is a description of your character, not which order you belong to.

2. Yes, but there were A LOT of teachers on Dantooine. That's weak at best.

3. Disciple NEVER says Kae was Revan's first and last master. Look at the quote and tell me where he says that.

4. Can you give quotes, please?

5. No, Kae was remembered by all three you mentioned. It was Kreia who was supposedly 'forgotten', but as you know, the masters all remembered her.

6. Where does Kreia exhibit deep knowledge of Echani Rituals?

7. Handmaiden's attitude is far from cryptic, majestic. But I guess that's subjective.

 

Also, I doubt LA or Obsidian would be so shallow as to reuse the whole "I am your parent!!!" theme. It's already been done, and Kreia is dead, so I doubt we'll see any more of her in K3 or any more revelations on her character. But until K3 comes out (if LA ever makes one), we won't know for sure. Also, does anyone here happen to have the exact words of the Jedi Masters on Dantooine? I can't remember if they say "I thought you died in the Mandalorian wars" or "I thought you died at Malachor".

[Knights&Darths]

There is no evidence that points to Kreia being Kae

anyone is of course free to think what he wants

[Jambo]

check posts #38 and #39, genius...

[metadigital]

...

Also, I doubt LA or Obsidian would be so shallow as to reuse the whole "I am your parent!!!" theme.  ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you read the files there are stage directions and comments; in these are many direct instructions to parallel ALL of the themes from the films, including the parent one, iirc.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that there exists the planning for Kreia to be Kae and this to be a final revelation in someone's dialogue influence level; but, for whatever reason, it was cut (fairly early in the development process), so that

[Knights&Darths]

there exists the planning for Kreia to be Kae and this to be a final revelation in someone's dialogue influence level; but, for whatever reason, it was cut (fairly early in the development process)

i must say that from a certain point of view the story was stronger for it, there is no spoken "i am your father" forgone drama, everything was as she meant it to be (wrapped in mistery) from the beginning to the end, still many didn't miss the revelation

[Jediphile]

There is no evidence that points to Kreia being Kae.  Those who say that Kreia is Handmaiden's mother are simply digging to deep into the story's plotholes.  It's all pure speculation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pure speculation, yes. No definite proof. But why plotholes? Because you don't like the idea? Also, I don't think it's very polite of you to infer bad argumentation for those of us who voice support of the idea just because you don't like it. Play fair please.

 

The only reason Kae was mentioned is because they need to explain some of Kreia's past.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if you're going to argue ulterior motives for why a character is in the game, then why is Kae repeatedly mentioned as one of Revan's masters? What does that add to the plot?

 

As for Disciple's comment, he never says that Kae was Revan's first master.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He did say Revan was her padawan. That could be interpreted to mean that she was his first master, just as Kreia says Revan was once her padawan. It seems to me that "padawan" is not merely another term for a student or apprentice, but rather a term for someone studying under a specific master.

 

And Kae was exiled for having a child (Brianna), Kreia was exiled because she was blamed for Revan's fall to the darkside. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As I said before, consider the source. Only Kreia tells us that this is the reason Kae was exiled, and if she is indeed Kae and does not wish to admit that, then she has motive for not giving the correct reason for Kae's exile, since that would expose her.

 

And also, Kreia was a historian and Jedi Master for the Jedi (before Atris took over), Kae was a Jedi Knight who, as said by the exile, died in the Mandalorian wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jedi Knight is just a generic term for a jedi who has gone beyond the rank of padawan. Besides, it's Kreia calling Kae a jedi knight once, while the Disciple consistently calls her a master. I'll take Disciple's word over Kreia's any day.

 

And the exile never says Kae died in the war - the Handmaiden does, though Kae's body was conveniently never recovered.... "

 

And also, Kreia there is no evidence in the game or the cut content that indicates Kreia is Kae.  If she was, we would have seen more evidence for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So if there is no evidence for, say, there being life on other worlds, then that means there can't be? Please... Besides, K2 was written as a "to be continued" story, and since force ghosts are possible, that doesn't exclude more information on Kae or Kreia in the next plot.

 

As for both having white hair, you forget two things: Kreia is very old, and Handmaiden's white hair obviously comes from her father, because all her other sisters have white hair, also.  Unbelievable that Star Wars.com has no information about Revan or Kreia, otherwise I'd post a link.  I'd use the one from wikipedia, but everyone here claims it's nothing but "speculation". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So that means it is impossible for Kae to have had white hair also?

 

Besides, I doubt any man would be desperate enough to make babies with Kreia. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As Atton said, Kreia must have been beautiful once. The dark side tends to take its toll...

[Jediphile]

3.  Disciple NEVER says Kae was Revan's first and last master.  Look at the quote and tell me where he says that. 

4.  Can you give quotes, please?

5.  No, Kae was remembered by all three you mentioned.  It was Kreia who was supposedly 'forgotten', but as you know, the masters all remembered her. 

6.  Where does Kreia exhibit deep knowledge of Echani Rituals? 

7.  Handmaiden's attitude is far from cryptic, majestic.  But I guess that's subjective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

3. He did say Revan was once Kae's padawan, which could be take as such.

4. I already gave all the relevant quotes on the page where you posted on. Please read it.

5. No, it can't have been Kreia. Kreia was Revan's first master, whether she is Kae or not, and Disciple tells us that the master he doesn't remember is the one Revan had *after* Kae... So it can't be Kreia, since Kreia was the first (and last).

6. Please see my answer to point 4.

7. She isn't cryptic, but the rest isn't so far off, and cryptic would seem to come from being a jedi, which Handmaiden never was.

 

Also, I doubt LA or Obsidian would be so shallow as to reuse the whole "I am your parent!!!" theme.  It's already been done, and Kreia is dead, so I doubt we'll see any more of her in K3 or any more revelations on her character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So because you think it's shallow that means it can't be done? It was used once (badly) in the Star Wars trilogy, so that means it cannot be used (much better) for a minor character in the Star Wars universe ever again?

 

And force ghosts do exist in Star Wars, for the dark side even more so - Ajunta Pall, Marka Ragnos, and Freedon Nadd come readily to mind...

 

But until K3 comes out (if LA ever makes one), we won't know for sure.  Also, does anyone here happen to have the exact words of the Jedi Masters on Dantooine?  I can't remember if they say "I thought you died in the Mandalorian wars" or "I thought you died at Malachor".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Again, see my answer to point 4 above.

[darthbass123]

U have to look at the age difference. The MandalorianWar began almost 10 years ago and Kriea is like 70 standard years old, while the handmaiden is like 20 - 25. seventy minus twenty is 50. I doubt she will be able to have a kid at 50 and that is way before the war began.

[Jediphile]

U have to look at the age difference. The MandalorianWar began almost 10 years ago and Kriea is like 70 standard years old, while the handmaiden is like 20 - 25. seventy minus twenty is 50. I doubt she will be able to have a kid at 50 and that is way before the war began.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Atton: "I mean, how old do you think she is? {Shakes head}She may have been good-looking once, but it takes some hard living to make creases like that."