The Korriban tomb, and the vision of Revan.

[Matadore]

Wow, Jediphole... that's a good interpretation.... and so exact with the dialogue from KOTOR II... especially Kreia's. I just actually went thru that part of the game yesterday, so that monologue is still fresh in my mind.

 

But, Lord Miltiades has a point. Yoda says "Fear is the path to the Dark Side" in Episode I. So, if that's true, then what exactly was the Exile afraid of, and how did that keep him/her from turning to the Dark Side? I mean, the Exile could have been afraid of being turned, and to prevent that from happening, cut off his/her connection with the Force. Who knows?

[master_pendrak]

perhaps in losing the force the Exile has become "human" and emotions like fear, anger and pain etc are shown and dealt with like everyone else who ISNT a FS/Jedi/Sith. I mean if your not FS then you cant fall to the darkside or lightside in such a way as the Jedi and Sith do.

 

And as for what the Exile feared i think it was his fate his destiny, what he had done at Malachor V. And when you fight Revan in the tomb it shows a darkside Exile for a few seconds, which IMO, was what would have been the Exile's destiny had he accepted it. But he didn't and in doing so cut himself from the force in fear and left a wound which as jediphile said is the vocal point in K2.

[DAWUSS]

perhaps in losing the force the Exile has become "human" and emotions like fear, anger and pain etc are shown and dealt with like everyone else who ISNT a FS/Jedi/Sith. I mean if your not FS then you cant fall to the darkside or lightside in such a way as the Jedi and Sith do.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi

 

Gray Jedi

 

Jedi who have left the Jedi Order or have been cast out of it may be referred to as Gray Jedi. Gray Jedi have not turned to the Dark Side, rather they use both light and dark side powers and view the Force as two pieces of a whole. Gray Jedi are not subject to follow the Jedi High Council and use Dark Side powers with great discretion. In the Knights of the Old Republic, Jolee Bindo might have been considered a Gray Jedi, having left the Jedi Order, as well as the Jedi Exile in Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. Despite her origins, others may argue that Kreia could be considered among the Gray Jedi. Not all Grey Jedi are necessarily evil or self-serving mercaneries, as they might still keep the honor of the Jedi at their own wish. They are just not complaisant members of the Jedi any more, whatever the reason for exile.

 

I think when the Exile became just that, she, like you said, handled things unlike a typical FS/Jedi/Sith would. I think that also then allowed for romances to form (since at that time, Jedi weren't supposed to have romances), which would explain why she ended up in a love story

[Jediphile]

The Exile cut himself off from the force, yes, but that's not all he did - he also wounded the force itself in the process. It's a unique ability to deny the force and thereby wound it, and that ability is something the jedi masters fear.

 

He did not do it out of desperation, though. As the masters explain, the Exile forms force bonds easily with others, but just as this means he makes attachments easily, it also means that he suffers when those he has formed these bonds with suffer, and this is especially true for those strong in the force, like the jedi. On Malachor V, a great many jedi that the Exile had fought with and thus formed such bonds with suffered and died horribly, or were corrupted according to Revan's plan. Feeling their pain and anguish through the force was too much for the Exile, and that is why he instinctively cut himself off from the force - doing otherwise would have driven him mad or even killed him. That he thereby rejected his own corruption may even be considered incidental in this context.

 

And yes, like the others on Malachor V the Exile was to fall the dark side, I think. The only reason why he didn't was because he, as the masters put it, was deafened to the force by the suffering he experienced there through his force bonds. His bonds are both a gift and a curse - he may gain power from them, but they also transmit pain to him, and he cannot escape that... except by cutting himself off from the force. That's the reason for some of Kreia's comments in the end. If you're LS, she says that you're not a jedi, not really. If you're DS, she says that you're not really a sith...

 

That is true because the Exile has cut himself off from the usual LS/DS bias. He can access the powers through his force bonds, but he really isn't that affected by either side.

 

Personally I tend to see this as a repression of reality, since the Exile wouldn't accept the truth, and his denial, I believe, has caused a sort of "force neurosis". Note a few of the comments the masters make, when the pass their sentense on Dantooine:

 

"When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it."

 

And a bit later...

 

"The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you."

 

What I find interesting in this is that the masters are convinced that Sith threat they faced is somehow tied to the Exile himself, because they felt the same thing when Katarr "died" as they did from him the day they exiled him.

 

Now note something says about Nihilus' powers:

 

Kreia: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

 

Given what the masters tell us, does not that suggest a striking similary between the powers of the Exile and Nihilus? It's all about connections to life and powers of instinct, and since we know that Nihilus "destroyed" Katarr, it is obvious that the masters see a connection between the Exile and Nihilus.

 

But even if all the clues are there, it is interesting that nobody ever draws the conclusion or at least says it out loud in the game. Since we know that Nihilus was created by the destructive forces of Malachor, we could argue that he is what remains from a jedi who was there at the time, but I don't think so. After all, Nihilus was not there alone, and neither Kreia (Darth Traya) or Sion has his power to "drain" the force, even though they all studied together at the Trayus Academy. But the Exile has that power! So I think the connection is closer than merely being on Malachor at the time, and that is why I think that Nihilus *is* the Exile and vice versa - Nihilus is the "force neurosis" that the Exile created on Malachor V.

[EnderAndrew]

I think that is a very reasonable conclusion.

[master_pendrak]

Nihilus IMO is a darkside avatar of the Exile because as you stated, their power/curse is exactly the same. Except Exile doesnt willingly or knowingly create force bonds with people because it just comes naturally, until your told in the game later on. So if he wanted to, Exile could basically just with a thought do what Nihilus did to Katarr. Because Nihilus and Exile are one and the same.

 

"severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes"

 

i think the Jedi fear the Exiles power because from my understanding all it would take for Exile to kill the Jedi is a single thought. Just a thought and his power would sever them from life, from the force and that is like what Nihilus did on Katarr. And as they know he is disobedient and could turn against there orders like he did once before. So rather than "walk on glass" never knowing what will happen the Jedi felt they had to "nip it in the bud" and prevent any chance of Exile using his power like Nihilus. Except Nihilus couldn't control his power it controled him by the constant hunger. And it resulted in him killing the Jedi nearlly all at once, so the Jedi Masters felt they must sever Exile from the force to prevent an reoccurance of such an event.

 

Where Exile's force signature once was is now an Echo which indicates his death in the force, but he lives physically. So instead of creating a new force signature (which i guess is impossible) Exile's power allows him to drain the force through others. Thats why Nihilus cant use his power on the Exile because there is nothing to use it. When sensing Exile through the force all that is visible is an echo, which makes him seem "hollow". If there is nothing there then Nihilus can't "drain" him and feed upon him so that is why Nihilus doesn't just wipe out the Exile when they meet.

 

It was Exile who caused the destruction of Malachor V and it was him who wounded the force by killig millions all at once and severing his connection to it. And Nihilus as a Jedi must have witnessed it, turned into a Dark Jedi/Sith and eventually realised this power. But where Nihilus witnessed Malachor V and learnt his power he never would be as strong as the Exile because it is Exile who has this power naturally. Nihilus was once a Jedi and through twisting and corruption of the darkside couldnt control his constant hunger and it led to his downfall.

[Jediphile]

i think the Jedi fear the Exiles power because from my understanding all it would take for Exile to kill the Jedi is a single thought. Just a thought and his power would sever them from life, from the force and that is like what Nihilus did on Katarr. And as they know he is disobedient and could turn against there orders like he did once before. So rather than "walk on glass" never knowing what will happen the Jedi felt they had to "nip it in the bud" and prevent any chance of Exile using his power like Nihilus. Except Nihilus couldn't control his power it controled him by the constant hunger. And it resulted in him killing the Jedi nearlly all at once, so the Jedi Masters felt they must sever Exile from the force to prevent an reoccurance of such an event.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but that's only part of it. The real problem is that the Exile doesn't even realise his own potential and doesn't use his powers anywhere near to the extent he could. If he realised his potential and used it, he could destroy the force itself. And yet that danger is still only part of the problem. As the masters say, the Sith's power - Nihilus' power - is tied to the exile directly, and if the wound that the Exile represents is closed, then the abuse of his power would also be closed, including the power that Nihilus holds. Taking that into account, the masters choice is understandable, if extreme - they can end several great threats by simply cutting the Exile off of the force.

 

Where Exile's force signature once was is now an Echo which indicates his death in the force, but he lives physically. So instead of creating a new force signature (which i guess is impossible) Exile's power allows him to drain the force through others. Thats why Nihilus cant use his power on the Exile because there is nothing to use it. When sensing Exile through the force all that is visible is an echo, which makes him seem "hollow". If there is nothing there then Nihilus can't "drain" him and feed upon him so that is why Nihilus doesn't just wipe out the Exile when they meet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't see it quite that way, though. To me Nihilus didn't merely learn the power by being in the proximity of the Exile on Malachor V - if that had been the case, then you would have had several - erm... Nihilii?? (well, plural for Nihilus) and you don't - you just have one. Why? Well, it's all tied to force bonds, and note what Zez-Kai Ell has to say about that on Nar Shaddaa

 

Zez-Kai Ell: "such bonds are a connection that can be formed at moments of crisis - or in the slow understanding that grows between master and apprentice.It is most common between two beings who are sensitive to the Force. It allows the transmission of feelings, of influence. {Musing}It was something you were gifted with, as I recall, before your fall. You formed such attachments easier than most - even to those who could feel the Force only faintly. {Rueful}Even Vrook could not ignore it, which is saying something. {Frowns}That is most unusual - and unnatural. I have never heard of a bond of such strength. There were a few within the Order who knew more than I did of such bonds - but their students were few, lost in the Mandalorian Wars. It was rumored that Revan studied such bonding deeply, both through the Jedi histories and with certain teachers, before he left the Order and went to war. It was rumored that Revan studied such bonding deeply, both through the Jedi histories and with certain teachers, before he left the Order and went to war. I do not know - a bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It not a choice... it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force.To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die - but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply... it would simply be empty, a wound.{Becomes quieter at the end}One of you would have to die, but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply... it would simply be empty, a wound."

 

I find this bit really telling. Even with the Exile's unique abilities for force bonding, it would still take something rather major to produce the results of Malachor V. What is interesting to me is the bit he says about the bond between master and apprentice. We don't know who the Exile's master was - we're never told - but if he was on Malachor V and died there, then you had yet another factor - you have the Exile's powerful force bonds, you have the unique corruptive nature of Malachor, you have the deep bond between master and apprentice, and you have a crisis. And note how Zez-Kai Ell describes the consequences of breaking a force bond - it would leave a wound... Well, that's exactly what we have here, and it may also explain why Kreia *wants* the Exile to kill her in the end - she *knows* it will leave a wound, and maybe by killing her, the Exile granted her final victory by wounding the force even further...

 

But I still find the master/apprentice relationship interesting in relation to what its significance might be, if the Exile's master was at Malachor V. Lots of jedi died there, but if the Exile's master was killed - the one person the Exile would have a uniquely powerful force bond with - then the consequences could be far worse, and that might be the source of the force wound the Exile has created. His master is dead, he is falling to the dark side, he cannot bear the pain and suffering being imposed upon him by the bonds... So what does he do? He tears the bonds apart, he denies the force, he casts out a part of himself, as he would cut off an arm infected with gangrene, before it can infect him... And where does the "rot" go? It travels along the severed bond to his dead master, turning him into an undead being - the master remains dead, but his body is animated by the part of himself that the Exile has denied and becomes a host to that dark part. He becomes an undead thing, a "force vampire" that has no true life and so must drain it from other force sensitives. As Kreia says, he cannot truly be called a man anymore...

 

Kreia: "Power? Do you think so? You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls."

[Miltiades]

And note how Zez-Kai Ell describes the consequences of breaking a force bond - it would leave a wound... Well, that's exactly what we have here, and it may also explain why Kreia *wants* the Exile to kill her in the end - she *knows* it will leave a wound, and maybe by killing her, the Exile granted her final victory by wounding the force even further...

 

Maybe Kreia wants to wound the force even more, but why would she then talk about the future of the exile's companions. If she tells that Visas will be the key to the Jedi (I thought she said that), and that the other jedi will be happy 'till they die, then why is that force wound necessary (in her eyes)?

[kalimeeri]

The master/apprentice statements are telling ... but I believe that Kreia was Exile's master (as it was strongly implied that Arren Kae was responsible for his deviance from the norm--and I know that's a can of worms, sorry).

 

That would explain why the bond is strong enough to punch through the resistance in his mind--I don't believe it happened overnight, and I don't think anyone else could have done it. I doubt, though, that it is as strong as she says. The masking technique has its drawbacks in that Exile really has no reason to take her along, no personal loyalty or affection. So she has to create one--the threat of possible death if something happens to her.

 

I think she has blocked that memory in his mind (she lies to him when he asks if she has used the blocking technique on him). If she'd told the truth, he'd have been angry with her, and she didn't want to get into an explanation. She says "No, but if I did, you would never know."

 

Obsidian left a lot of the game open to interpretation--but in a game, where every line of dialogue counts, the master/apprentice thing is mentioned a number of times by different masters, putting emphasis on it. I don't believe it was by accident--they were trying to tell us something without actually saying it. But that's just my interpretation.

[Master_Vrook]

I'm not sure I understand your question, but Kreia was already dying so she already would have been guaranteed a wound in the force, she may hate the force but she didn't hate the Exile so she gave him a gift of foresight to part ways on.

[kalimeeri]

And note how Zez-Kai Ell describes the consequences of breaking a force bond - it would leave a wound...

 

But she also talks about triggering echoes to cancel the spread of others. So by her death, especially on Malachor, does this weaken or change anyone else? We don't have any idea how many Sions or Nihilous's she may have helped create before she found Exile. Or does it send a message to Revan, who would certainly feel it? She could have bonds with a number of students.

 

Kreia also has to find a way to resolve the bond issue with Exile, one that doesn't undo all of her hard work. In this way, her becoming Darth Traya forces him to distance himself from her, to disbond himself from someone who in essence is a 'new' master. The impact is much less than her dying for any other reason (inevitable).

[master_pendrak]

i doubt the fact Nihilus is or was the Exiles master, i think more he was a broken Jedi who barely survived Malachor V. Perhaps he never cut himself from the force but succumbed to the darkside in a twisted shell of his former self. Kreia trained him and helped him exploit and develope his powers until he grew too strong and helped Sion rise against her. IMO Nihilus is like Sion the only thing keeping him going is the force, without it Sion would finaly die and without it Nihilus would starve and die. They have different styles in how they go about things but ultimately both Sith Lords are very much alike. (apart from being Sith offcourse)

 

I often wonder when Exile is accused for Malachor V's destruction because yes he did activate the MSG. But perhaps after its activation the amount of deaths caused Exile to sever his force connection. But maybe the Exile didn't realise the scale on which he severed bonds. Aswell as severing his own perhaps it severed the connections between life and the force of other Jedi on Malchor V by accident. This results in showing how Exile's force bonding can be harmful and dangerous and the power it can hold. And Nihilus could be a result of this event and because he witnessed the event first hand and grew to resemble the Exile. This could help stick facts together on how Nihilus is like Exile and how Nihilus has the same power as Exile.

 

Personaly i never have been fond of the "echo in the force because of your actions etc" i think it was a weak and farfetched storyline. Perhaps had there been less cyrptic and mystical answers to questions. Aswell as more answers to some questions, then it would make greater sense.

[metadigital]

The force creates ones destiny, perhaps upon choises we make in life, but none the less the force guides and chooses our destiny for us. Which is what happened to Revan she was a Jedi, then turned into a Sith Lord then was forcebly turned back into a Jedi. Now one could argue that the mind swipe was the will of the force or it could be an unseen move the force didn't consider when Revans destiny was chosen.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... Unless the Force isn't really in total control of the fate of universe and everyone in it ...

[master_pendrak]

the force has a force....too mind boggling for me lol

[Jediphile]

The master/apprentice statements are telling ... but I believe that Kreia was Exile's master (as it was strongly implied that Arren Kae was responsible for his deviance from the norm--and I know that's a can of worms, sorry). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean Kreia was the Exile's master before the Mandalorian Wars? This I doubt. You could speculate on it, I guess, but I think there is at least one good point against that being the case - when you meet with the masters on Dantooine and Kreia enters, they are shocked to see her and astounded that she could be the Exile's new master. That doesn't suggest to me that she ever had any relationship with the Exile before, since the masters clearly know both her and the Exile fairly well.

[metadigital]

The master/apprentice statements are telling ... but I believe that Kreia was Exile's master (as it was strongly implied that Arren Kae was responsible for his deviance from the norm--and I know that's a can of worms, sorry). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean Kreia was the Exile's master before the Mandalorian Wars? This is doubt. You could speculate on it, I guess, but I there is at least one good point against that being the case - when you meet with the masters on Dantooine and Kreia enters, they are shocked to see her and astounded that she could be the Exile's new master. That doesn't suggest to me that she ever had any relationship with the Exile before, since the masters clearly know both her and the Exile fairly well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... Unless the Masters were just shocked to see how ugly she had become ... "

[Jediphile]

i doubt the fact Nihilus is or was the Exiles master, i think more he was a broken Jedi who barely survived Malachor V. Perhaps he never cut himself from the force but succumbed to the darkside in a twisted shell of his former self. Kreia trained him and helped him exploit and develope his powers until he grew too strong and helped Sion rise against her. IMO Nihilus is like Sion the only thing keeping him going is the force, without it Sion would finaly die and without it Nihilus would starve and die. They have different styles in how they go about things but ultimately both Sith Lords are very much alike. (apart from being Sith offcourse)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My problem with that theory is that it doesn't explain the relationship that clearly seems to exist between the Exile and Nihilus. It also runs contrary with Kreia's comments about Nihilus 'already being dead'. The masters tell us that the threat they face - which is Nihilus - is tied the exile and that they have from the exile what they felt when Nihilus destroyed the jedi on Katarr. They also say that 'these jedi', which I take to mean Nihilus, since they haven't truly identified him yet, have learned what they can do from the exile. Again, it all flows right back to the exile personally and not just what happened on Malachor V.

 

I often wonder when Exile is accused for Malachor V's destruction because yes he did activate the MSG. But perhaps after its activation the amount of deaths caused Exile to sever his force connection. But maybe the Exile didn't realise the scale on which he severed bonds. Aswell as severing his own perhaps it severed the connections between life and the force of other Jedi on Malchor V by accident. This results in showing how Exile's force bonding can be harmful and dangerous and the power it can hold. And Nihilus could be a result of this event and because he witnessed the event first hand and grew to resemble the Exile. This could help stick facts together on how Nihilus is like Exile and how Nihilus has the same power as Exile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This I doubt for several reasons:

 

1. There would be a lot more Nihili? (plural of Nihilus)

2. It doesn't explain the close relationship and similar powers of the Exile and Nihilus.

3. The masters would not have drawn the conclusion that the Nihilus learned his power from the Exile.

4. Nihilus being "merely" a perverted jedi does not fit with Kreia's comments that he is no longaer and is already dead.

 

Personaly i never have been fond of the "echo in the force because of your actions etc" i think it was a weak and farfetched storyline. Perhaps had there been less cyrptic and mystical answers to questions. Aswell as more answers to some questions, then it would make greater sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I like the plot. The problem lies in the storytelling, I think. Since the production was rushed, they just didn't get around to telling the final bits well, and those were the ones that carried the story. They do not succeed in justifying the masters decision to cut the exile off the force because they don't explain it well - you just get all this information thrown in your face in two seconds and have to deal with it, and you go WTF?? The revelation of the Exile's power/curse should have been much more gradual, so that you really saw the horror of it when the secret finally came out. Instead it's just, "Hey, you're a wound in the force leeching life from others, don't you know, so we'll just cut you off now, if it's all the same to you..."

 

The plot and how it was told was hurt by the rushed ending, because it means the game takes a huge turn to the left toward the end, and you end up follow the plot simply because you have no other choice as you fight to grasp just what is going on.

[Marka Ragnos]

4. Nihilus being "merely" a perverted jedi does not fit with Kreia's comments that he is no longaer and is already dead.

and a perverted jedi can't no longer be a man and already dead?

[Miltiades]

If we would accept the theory of some here (the fact that Nihilus is part of the exile), then there's something I'm thinking about. The Exile is a wound in the force. He/she managed to do that by cutting him/herself off of the force. Because he/she cut him/herself off, a part of him/her is gone. That part would go in someone that was close to him/her. That became Nihilus. So, the universe has to be lucky that the exile existed at the same time as Nihilus, otherwise no one could stop him. So I was thinking, if someone cuts him/herself off of the force (just presume that it happens all the time), there will always be a part of that person that is in another body, so for every person who cuts him/herself off of the force, there's automatically another person who's a danger to the galaxy. That means every time someone cuts him/herself off of the force, the galaxy doesn't need to fear, because it's all in balance. Let's say, 3 exiles = 3 nihili.

Am I correct? Or just crazy?

[Marka Ragnos]

Or just crazy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Miltiades]

You couldn't withstand the temptation or you're just right...

I know that the text is a a bit long and farfetched, but it was a long day today, you know.

[metadigital]

...

Actually I like the plot. The problem lies in the storytelling, I think. Since the production was rushed, they just didn't get around to telling the final bits well, and those were the ones that carried the story. They do not succeed in justifying the masters decision to cut the exile off the force because they don't explain it well - you just get all this information thrown in your face in two seconds and have to deal with it, and you go WTF?? The revelation of the Exile's power/curse should have been much more gradual, so that you really saw the horror of it when the secret finally came out. Instead it's just, "Hey, you're a wound in the force leeching life from others, don't you know, so we'll just cut you off now, if it's all the same to you..."

 

The plot and how it was told was hurt by the rushed ending, because it means the game takes a huge turn to the left toward the end, and you end up follow the plot simply because you have no other choice as you fight to grasp just what is going on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. The pace of the narrative must be sufficiently quick so as not to let the leaders start somnabulating, and sufficiently steady so as to let everyone come to the conclusion

[master_pendrak]

if someone explained Nihilus's origins then i think things would fit abit better into place between him and the connection he has with the Exile. And if they didnt rush the revelation of the Exile's force bonding, wound in the force, echo that never heals then im sure id love the ending even more.

 

It also runs contrary with Kreia's comments about Nihilus 'already being dead'

 

i wondered that perhaps Nihilus was alive after Malachor V, if barely, succumbing to the darkside and letting this "hunger" consume him has killed all essence of the man he once was. The masters know that the Sith - Nihilus - is using the force somehow to kill Jedi, to find them and destroy them. But they dont know exactly they just know it links back to the Exile and the main vocal point in the plot, Malachor V and what the Exile managed to do there. They do seem to know it involves severing life from the force, but that seems all that they do know which i suppose is all they ened to.

 

Which leads me to believe somehow Nihilus as a man died, lay dying maybe after/during Malachor V's destruction. And in some weird way perhaps as i said before about the Exile not realising that he severed his own force connection, but severed other Jedi's aswell. Nihilus's force connection was cut and yet physically he still lived possibly by releasing himself to the darkside, or possibly he was influenced by Exile some way/shape/form. One could argue why arent their anymore Nihilii but then one could argue why arent there more Exile(s)?

 

The reason i say most of this happened at Malachor V is partly because

1.) the planet is talked about alot, and alot seems to stem and flow from there to do with the plot

2.) it is where the Exile chose his destiny and where his curse/power was started

3.) alot of Jedi were there, Revan's converting method, and darkside presence of the Trayus Academy.

Nihilus and Exile have a link i strongly agree its obvious, whats not so obvious is how or why they have a link.

 

This I doubt for several reasons:

 

1. There would be a lot more Nihili? (plural of Nihilus)

2. It doesn't explain the close relationship and similar powers of the Exile and Nihilus.

3. The masters would not have drawn the conclusion that the Nihilus learned his power from the Exile.

4. Nihilus being "merely" a perverted jedi does not fit with Kreia's comments that he is no longaer and is already dead.

 

one could argue that at Malachor V there would be more Exile(s), i think the only reason the Exile severed his connection is purely he was willing to give it up. He was willing to sacrafice his everything in order to live, to cheat his destiny and choose his own. That is why no other Jedi have become like Exile because none of them were willing to give up the force, and the power it gives. So instead they join Revan or die, very simple i suppose. But Whoever Nihilus was (he definately IS/WAS a Jedi once, because Kreia mentions 'if he can be truly called a man anymore') must have been there first hand to realise what Exile had done. Because he is exactly like Exile, his power is the same its as strong as Exile's. Just he can't use it on him because there is no force signature to actually drain life from. As Exile channels the force through others.

 

My guess is that Nihilus perhaps was an anomaly in the force because there is no canon evidence surrounding his existance before/during/up to his meeting with Exile. I can only suspect Nihilus did something similar to Exile in giving up the force to live, but used his "feeding" technique to sustain himself while draining the force through others so he could carry on with the ability and power the force provides. But in doing so he was consumed by the constant need and hunger for force sensetives, abit like a drug addict. As i have said before, Nihilus is a darkside Exile IMO who willingly uses his power to drain others of life and force to sustain himself. Unlike Exile who doesnt mean to do use others to drain the force to himself.

 

I have to admit i have often speculated did OE perhaps mean to say the Exile's power was a thought bomb. But considering the time limits they never expanded on it as it would probably take great explanation as to how and why a single Jedi Knight can use such a devastating power. And also many people im sure would have a problem in accepting the Exile's power as a thought bomb as it is only used roughly...2000 years into the future for the first recorded time?. Because think of it, the Sith had to learn the thought bomb power somehow and what the Exile and Nihilus can do seems to fit the idea of a thought bomb.

 

I suppose we will never know what the connection between Nihilus and Exile is because the game was rushed. But i strongly think it all comes back to what Exile did personaly at Malachor V. And how it effected Nihilus, the Exile himself and the galaxy as a whole.

[Jediphile]

Which leads me to believe somehow Nihilus as a man died, lay dying maybe after/during Malachor V's destruction. And in some weird way perhaps as i said before about the Exile not realising that he severed his own force connection, but severed other Jedi's aswell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd agree so far. Whoever Nihilus used to be - he died on Malachor. The only thing left is the shell, because Nihilus used the body as a host to manifest himself in. But there is no life in him. And I'd also agree that the Exile is completely unaware of it all. I guess he senses it on a subconscious level, since he did make a choice and does use his bonding ability, but he is not consciously aware of it, no. I he were, he would not need to seek out the masters for an answer to how his force bonding works.

 

I do not agree that the Exile cut others off from the force, however. If he had, Revan and Malak would have suddenly had a large proportion of their converted jedi cut off from the force, and that doesn't seem to have happened. The Exile does not possess the ability to cut others off from the force - he just has the ability to form force bonds, and his greater instincts with this is what "allowed" him to sever his force tie. It let him deny the force, but he did not do so on purpose. As Kreia said, the ability cannot be taught, only experienced and used instinctively. As the masters explain, the Exile's force bonds made him feel all the suffering, and it was this very sensitivity that gave him the ability to resist - it's like a headache that you can suddenly fight because it's so intense that you act on it and resist it on instinct. The Exile's instinct was the cut his tie to the force so that the pain would stop. But I don't believe he can do it to others.

 

Nihilus's force connection was cut and yet physically he still lived possibly by releasing himself to the darkside, or possibly he was influenced by Exile some way/shape/form. One could argue why arent their anymore Nihilii but then one could argue why arent there more Exile(s)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because the Exile is unique. He alone had force bonds that allowed him to experience such pain and suffering that he could react on instinct at sever his own tie to the force. As Kreia says, he alone turned away, but it was because he had no other choice.

 

The reason i say most of this happened at Malachor V is partly because

1.) the planet is talked about alot, and alot seems to stem and flow from there to do with the plot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The place has a corrupting influence on all who go there, and so it was perfect for Revan's plans of jedi conversion. It did not affect the Exile directly, though, as much as it augmented the intensity with which he felt pain and suffering when the mass shadow generator was activated. What happened to him and caused the wound in the force might not have happened in another place, because the horror would not have been as profound.

 

2.) it is where the Exile chose his destiny and where his curse/power was started

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but though I have said otherwise myself in the past, I'm beginning to wonder if choice is not the wrong word. The Exile had no choice but to fight the horror he experienced. It was instinct, not choice, I think.

 

3.) alot of Jedi were there, Revan's converting method, and darkside presence of the Trayus Academy.

Nihilus and Exile have a link i strongly agree its obvious, whats not so obvious is how or why they have a link.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Exile/Nihilus link is problematic, because while I continue to think that Nihilus is the side of himself that the Exile instictively cast away, that doesn't explain why it was animated as Nihilus. As others have said, if it's just the dark twin of the exile, then why doesn't Nihilus' gender seem to change depending on whether you play male or female? I think Nihilus or rather his body wasn't just any jedi. For the relationship to be this powerful, it must have been someone that the Exile had a close and strong force bond with. I've speculated that it could have been the Exile's master, because I think that is the most obvious explanation, but it could also have been a very close friend or a relative (like Ulic and Cay Qel-Droma are brothers and fellow jedi as well).

 

one could argue that at Malachor V there would be more Exile(s), i think the only reason the Exile severed his connection is purely he was willing to give it up. He was willing to sacrafice his everything in order to live, to cheat his destiny and choose his own. That is why no other Jedi have become like Exile because none of them were willing to give up the force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually don't think the other jedi had any choice. The Exile's forcebonding ability is at the core here, since it is what forces the Exile to experience such pain that he instinctively flees from it, which means severed his ties to the force and incidentally saving him from his dark fate... at least for a time. The Exile has been in denial about what happened for a decade, though, and must soon come to terms with what really happened.

 

Because he is exactly like Exile, his power is the same its as strong as Exile's. Just he can't use it on him because there is no force signature to actually drain life from. As Exile channels the force through others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, their power is exactly the same. I think they shared a powerful force bond, and then when the tragedy happened on Malachor V, the person that would become Nihilus died on Malachor. But even as he did, the Exile cut himself away from the force to avoid the pain he felt, and the wound and the anguish and dark side energies that were flowing to him through his force bonding ability with others instead got channelled to the strongest of his force bonds that remained, which led to the dead Nihilus. This created a dark being with the same powers, but which has no real life. Nihilus is the manifestation of the wound that the Exile created, and he carries all of the Exile's rejected powers and darkness with him.

 

My guess is that Nihilus perhaps was an anomaly in the force because there is no canon evidence surrounding his existance before/during/up to his meeting with Exile. I can only suspect Nihilus did something similar to Exile in giving up the force to live, but used his "feeding" technique to sustain himself while draining the force through others so he could carry on with the ability and power the force provides. But in doing so he was consumed by the constant need and hunger for force sensetives, abit like a drug addict. As i have said before, Nihilus is a darkside Exile IMO who willingly uses his power to drain others of life and force to sustain himself. Unlike Exile who doesnt mean to do use others to drain the force to himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think Nihilus did anything to Exile - the transference was all one way, as far as I can tell. Nihilus hungers for force sensitives because the force is life, and he has none of his own, and he craves it because otherwise he will simply cease to exist. And he is always looking for life, though he is not quite aware of it himself. Indeed, he is looking for specific life - he is looking for the Exile. Their disrupted nature draws him to the Exile - not purposefully, since Nihilus has no sense of awareness, it is all instinct - because he seeks to be "whole" again by reconnecting to his true self, which is the Exile.

 

But the Exile has been gone for a decade, and so he has had to sustain himself in other ways. His hunger has grown so great at the beginning of the game, though, that it is becoming impossible for anyone to ignore. And here is perhaps the answer to something I never understood in the plot - just why is the Exile coming back to the Republic? Yes, I know Atris manipulated the events, but the Exile was never forced to go back, so why is he? Might be because he is himself drawn subconsciously to what he left behind?

 

Nihilus certainly senses him and promptly uses Visas to find him. It is odd that she goes so quickly from serving Nihilus to serving the Exile, but it might be because she too senses on some subconscious level that they are the same. And she is perhaps more drawn to serving the Exile, since he the "real" entity.

 

I suppose we will never know what the connection between Nihilus and Exile is because the game was rushed. But i strongly think it all comes back to what Exile did personaly at Malachor V. And how it effected Nihilus, the Exile himself and the galaxy as a whole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I pesonally think we will know... In K3.

[darthbass123]

I personaly hope we will find out in K3.