The Korriban tomb, and the vision of Revan.

[KOTORFanactic]

After playing through K2 for the sixth time in six months, I have realised something about the Korriban tomb, and the vision of Darth Revan you receive there.

 

Before you say anything, it isn't the problem that Darth Revan is only ever shown with 2 lightsabers. (Though that's a problem in itself).

 

It's the fact that just before you talk to the vision (or try to), standing beside him, is a vision of a Dark Jedi. Namely, a dark side you. As soon as you begin talking to Revan, this dark side you disappeers. Why? If all this vision of a dark side you does is stand there, then disappeer, then what is the point of it?

Is it more cut content?

 

Besdies that, you supposedly turned away from the corruption of Darth Revan after The Mandalorian Wars, so why does this vision show you as Dark Side?

 

What is the point of this vision of the Dark Side you standing beside Darth Revan?

And why does this Dark Side you vision do bugger all?

 

Thoughts?

[Palmtree]

Does the dark side version of the Exile actually appear every time? If it does, I've only ever noticed it on one of my playthroughs, and I've completed the game four times.

 

If what people suspect is true, and the final vision reperesents the future, then it seems to suggest that the Exile will join Revan, but they will both turn to the dark side.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

I'm guessing that the vision, which has appeared in all my playthroughs, is what would happen or will happnen when the Exile goes off to the Unknown Regions. Everything in that cave is in the chronoligical (sp?) order in what happens in the Exile's life or at least when he is recruited for the war. Being in the room with Kreia and friends represents the present and standing by Revan might represent the future.

 

Or I could be way off and it has no meaning. :D

[GhostofAnakin]

My personal take on it is that the vision is of the Exile (not even necessarily DS Exile) flanking Revan (ie. joining him) and going off to the Mandalorian Wars, since the whole tomb is about revisiting your past. But then when you confront Revan, your spirit is no longer needed at his side, but rather the real you confronting him. Thus the spirit Exile disappears and it's just you and him.

[GhostofAnakin]

^that didn't make much sense, but go with it. <_<

[Jediphile]

Does the dark side version of the Exile actually appear every time? If it does, I've only ever noticed it on one of my playthroughs, and I've completed the game four times.

 

If what people suspect is true, and the final vision reperesents the future, then it seems to suggest that the Exile will join Revan, but they will both turn to the dark side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly, and it fits uncomfortably nicely with my predictions and suggestions for the Exile in KotOR3, and those were just based on the odd way that the confrontation with Nihilus ends - I had actually forgot all about the dark side version of the Exile on Korriban.

 

I mean, both the Exile and Nihilus have this power to suppress the force and were both on Malachor V, yet when the Exile takes his mask, but can't even be bothered to look at his face to see it's someone he/she knows? Odd, isn't it? I'm now more confirmed about my suspicionss of the Nihilus/Exile relationship than before...

[Sinbreaker]

I mean, both the Exile and Nihilus have this power to suppress the force and were both on Malachor V, yet when the Exile takes his mask, but can't even be bothered to look at his face to see it's someone he/she knows? Odd, isn't it? I'm now more confirmed about my suspicionss of the Nihilus/Exile relationship than before...

 

 

Yes, I found the ending of that conflict anti-climactic and half-baked. What are your thoughts regarding their relations???

 

[Gabrielle]

My personal take on it is that the vision is of the Exile (not even necessarily DS Exile) flanking Revan (ie. joining him) and going off to the Mandalorian Wars, since the whole tomb is about revisiting your past.  But then when you confront Revan, your spirit is no longer needed at his side, but rather the real you confronting him.  Thus the spirit Exile disappears and it's just you and him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's my take on it. This tomb is about confronting the pass and the choices you made.

[Calax]

hmmmmm perhaps Nihilus is a subconcious creation of Exile. That's why all of his power is gone, and that's why you can't understand him..... Or I could just be trying to make sense of sombody who doesn't want to make sense.

[Sinbreaker]

Who was Visas serving then, if Nihilus is merely a product of the Exile's imagination....

[Sikon]

Visas was also a product of Exile's imagination. As well as his whole party, Revan, Malak, Bastila and the Mandalorians - we saw that on Korriban %).

 

Seriously though, I agree with GhostofAnakin and [Gabrielle[/b]'s interpretation. The vision with Revan was a part of the past, the Mandalorian Wars. But why fight Revan, and why does Exile's dark-side self appear and disappear? I think other visions give the answer...

 

In the first vision, when you tell Malak that Bastila didn't join him, he replies that she didn't join him at that time, but was mentally with them, sort of.

So, when you refuse to join Malak and fight him, it's symbolizing that you're fighting your past - you do not accept it any more. But you never really fought Malak, nor will you be able to do so, as he's already dead.

In the third vision, we see another "imaginary" fight. By fighting Kreia or your other followers, you distance yourself from them - this is the way for you to admit that what they were doing, or willing to do, was wrong.

Then we have the fight with Revan. I think it symbolizes the choice Exile made when he decided to return to the Council and accept his punishment. By doing so, he renounced Revan, and this is why the Dark Exile vision disappears: Exile stepped away from Revan's path to the Dark Side. By fighting Revan, you confirm your unwillingness to continue that path.

There are two things that are worth mentioning. Why do you have to fight Revan? I believe that since the visions are a chance for you to relive your choices and see if you would do different things than you actually did, the absence of other options signifies that Exile didn't have a choice. It was simply impossible for him to stay with Revan on the Dark Side and follow his and his followers' downfall. I don't know how to explain this - maybe Exile was not dark enough.

Revan wielding two lightsabers, red and blue, can mean that he changed his alignment several times, as well as the ambiguous ending of KOTOR I.

[Grant Dempsey]

It was simply impossible for him to stay with Revan on the Dark Side and follow his and his followers' downfall. I don't know how to explain this - maybe Exile was not dark enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's an interesting thought. I wouldn't say the impossibility of the Exile's choice going any other way was because he wasn't "dark" enough, though. Remember, his subconscious -- and symbolic -- rejection of following Revan into the Dark Side of the Force was actually a part of what drove him to reject the Force itself altogether. It could simply be that he was "always destined" to reject the Force in that manner, to become a living void within the Force, and so it was never within him to accept or embrace the insidious power of Malachor V because that wasn't what he was "meant" to do. I don't know...I'll think more about that sort of thing.

 

Of course, the more realistic idea would probably be that the writers simply didn't think that that little confrontation with the specter of Revan was enough to warrant any significant choice on the player's part, or that they decided it was important enough to the more linear side of the Exile's character development to not allow the player to interfere, or that they actually intended for it to come across as more ominous somehow than simply a confrontation with the Exile's past and so they didn't give the player any other ways of getting through the event.

 

Revan wielding two lightsabers, red and blue, can mean that he changed his alignment several times, as well as the ambiguous ending of KOTOR I.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I think Revan's lightsabers were red and violet, weren't they?

[Sikon]

Well, if it's violet, it requires more explanation, since violet is a "universal" color, used by both light- and dark-siders. But one dark and one universal saber... it doesn't make sense. It would be have more sense of there was one light and one dark saber, or one or two dark sabers. Or did they mean Revan was 3/4 dark and 1/4 light? Well, perhaps it was a stupid thought. But seriously, he only appears with one lightsaber in KOTOR I cinematics, if I recall correctly, so there must be a reason for two of them...

[Jediphile]

I mean, both the Exile and Nihilus have this power to suppress the force and were both on Malachor V, yet when the Exile takes his mask, but can't even be bothered to look at his face to see it's someone he/she knows? Odd, isn't it? I'm now more confirmed about my suspicionss of the Nihilus/Exile relationship than before...

 

 

Yes, I found the ending of that conflict anti-climactic and half-baked. What are your thoughts regarding their relations???

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, in short, Nihilus *is* the Exile, or rather a part of the Exile. On Malachor V the Exile created a wound in the force by resisting the will of the force that dictated he/she should turn to the dark side for what he/she had done in the Mandalorian Wars. The Exile, however, refused and denied the will of the force. In doing so, however, he/she also shed the part of him/herself that had already fallen to that dark side.

 

This 'evil self' survived by claiming the dead or near-dead body of a fallen jedi and then became Darth Nihilus (a friend or old master of the Exile would make the most sense, since the connection would be stronger). Note how Nihilus and the Exile share the ability to resist the will of the force, though that ability is said to be unique. By resisting the will of the force, the Exile simply split him/herself in two in spite of the actions that had been taken on Malachor. You might not call the Exile light side (as opposed to Nihilus being obviously dark sided), yet note how the jedi masters say that the Exile was the only jedi to ever return to face their judgment after leaving for the Mandalorian Wars. According to Revan's plans, the Exile should never have been able to do this (as per HK-47's comments about Revan 'cleaning house" on Malachor V), and yet the Exile resisted this fate.

 

So the Exile is not whole, which explains the wound in the force and the need to rely on force bonds to other in order to gain access to the force. The Exile's fate was to turn to the dark side, and therefore the force powers have remained with the side that became Nihilus.

 

For the Exile to become whole, he/she must embrace the side that he/she denied on Malachor V. However, since that side is Nihilus, this will mean turning to the dark side. Think of it as someone who denies someting, but still carries it with him. As time passes, it gets worse and becomes a mental disorder. Finally it begins to manifest itself until it can no longer be denied. Since Nihilus was born from a conflict with the force itself, he/she (it?) is far more powerful, and by the time KotOR2 begins, the Exile has been denying his/her other self for almost a decade - no wonder Nihilus has grown powerful!

 

Besides, it's an excellent excuse for having Nihilus return in KotOR3

[metadigital]

My personal take on it is that the vision is of the Exile (not even necessarily DS Exile) flanking Revan (ie. joining him) and going off to the Mandalorian Wars, since the whole tomb is about revisiting your past.  But then when you confront Revan, your spirit is no longer needed at his side, but rather the real you confronting him.  Thus the spirit Exile disappears and it's just you and him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, I thought that too.

 

Another possiblity is the whole tomb was full of dark Jedi, who were camouflaged by the Dark Side of the Force in the tomb, so that to the Exile they appeared as figments of memory ...

[Weaponmaster303]

jediphile u have just confused me alot more lol.

[Darth Vagula]

Latin word Nihil means nothing and i think that name of Nihilus comes from that as many other Sith names actually seem to connect to some other names(Sion, Sidious, Traya, Vader). As Exile is a empty shell and he got broken at Malachor 5 and Nihillus was "born" on Malachor. And both have the ability for force bonds and both are wounds in the force. So i think that Nihilus is force of the Exile what he lost on Malachor. So Nihilus actually is not nothing else then part of the Exile and he is living but he is not anything else then force and remeber that force is supposed to have a will of its own, but Nihilus is a force what has his own will as he is part of Exile. And that makes Nihilus a wound as he is part of force, but he has own will what is not part of the will of the force. And i think that is why his name is Nihilus as he is nothing and i think when he uses force, he loses part of himself so he needs to consume force sensitives to restore his power. And remember when the jedi masters said that these new Sith have learned all the consuming/bonds crap from Exile somehow and it is obvious why Nihilus, as he is the exile, can do it if my theory is right. Oh yeah and this would explain why Visas saw a graveyard as he is part of the Exile what he gave away so that he would survive the echo of the dead Jedi. And i think that Traya learned about the Exile when she saw Nihilus. Ah man i wrote a hell a lot of crap. Or then Nihilus is just some stupid Sith what Obsidian made up with no real meaning.

[Sikon]

As pretty as the "Nihilus-is-the-dark-side-of-Exile" idea is, I'm compelled to disregard it. It's not Ultima, and Exile is not Avatar. (Although there are some parallels to other characters, like Nameless One from Planescape: Torment.) Avatar killed Guardian by sacrificing his own life, and what do we see in KOTOR II? Exile kills Nihilus, who is believed by someone to be his dark side self, and still lives (even in the DS story); Exile kills Traya who is supposed to have a Force bond with him and still survives. Although the latter was explained by Lonna Vash in the deleted content.

[Grant Dempsey]

Well, if it's violet, it requires more explanation, since violet is a "universal" color, used by both light- and dark-siders. But one dark and one universal saber... it doesn't make sense. It would be have more sense of there was one light and one dark saber, or one or two dark sabers. Or did they mean Revan was 3/4 dark and 1/4 light? Well, perhaps it was a stupid thought. But seriously, he only appears with one lightsaber in KOTOR I cinematics, if I recall correctly, so there must be a reason for two of them...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hahaha. You think about the significance and meaning behind lightsaber colors almost as much as I do.

 

Well, to be honest, I imagine the colors of Revan's lightsabers were chosen simply because red and violet were the two "darkest" colors and the designers simply wanted more variety in the specter, and two red lightsabers would mean too much red in their opinion and wouldn't look as interesting.

 

On a "thinking even deeper than the designers" level, though, I don't know. I've generally regarded violet as the "neutral" or "balanced" lightsaber color as well (since purple is the combination of blue and red), but if the intention was to convey any sort of "Revan was beyond either side of the Force" feeling, it would've worked out better for his lightsabers to have been just blue and red or for him to have just one lightsaber, a violet one. Red and violet together didn't seem to lend themselves to any deeper meaning than just "they were two dark colors and looked good for a Dark Side character".

 

Note how Nihilus and the Exile share the ability to resist the will of the force, though that ability is said to be unique.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't mean to start a debate here, but I don't think the Exile and Darth Nihilus were quite as similar in their "wound conditions" as most people seem to have come to assume.

 

The Exile's "condition" seemed to be the result of more than one event. He became a "wound" within the Force because he rejected it (but it was Malachor V itself that instilled his "ability" to increase his power through war and death, through taking the lives of others). He was "free" of the Force's manipulating will, according to Kreia, simply because all his ties to it had been severed, completely and utterly. It left him as a dead spot within the Force. (For all intents and purposes, one could say he was just about as close to being "undead" as one could get in the Star Wars universe. )

 

Darth Nihilus was never really expressed to have been like that. Darth Nihilus lost his humanity and became "more presence than man", but he did not seem to reject the Force. It was the power of Malachor V itself that seemed to twist his being (as it tainted the Exile's, on a smaller scale), not any such rejection of the Force.

 

Of course, as I said, Malachor V tainted both the Exile and Darth Nihilus, and that was where the two of them seemed to be most similar.

[Calax]

when you play KOTOR1, you never get a light jedi holding a lightsaber that's got a violet jem inside. It's the Darksiders who have the violet powah.... (That was horrible i know) Anyway, Everything is a figment of your imagination because there is infinite space and fininte people finite/infinite= very very small number, ergo there is no population, ergo everyone you meet, have met, will ever meet, is just a figment of your deranged imagination. (Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy)

 

 

 

 

Also I'm wondering How can you go through all these planets, depopulate them, and still get lightside points? The average lightsider only kills when he has to, but in the games you can kill like a maniac and still not have and consequences. Makes you wonder.

[Darth_Schmarth]

when you play KOTOR1, you never get a light jedi holding a lightsaber that's got a violet jem inside.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong.

[EnderAndrew]

I got violet crystals for almost all of my party lightsabers, and I was LS for life, dog.

[Jediphile]

jediphile u have just confused me alot more lol.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:D

 

Thanks. We aim to please

[EnderAndrew]

I please to aim, personally.

[Jediphile]

The Exile's "condition" seemed to be the result of more than one event. He became a "wound" within the Force because he rejected it (but it was Malachor V itself that instilled his "ability" to increase his power through war and death, through taking the lives of others). He was "free" of the Force's manipulating will, according to Kreia, simply because all his ties to it had been severed, completely and utterly. It left him as a dead spot within the Force. (For all intents and purposes, one could say he was just about as close to being "undead" as one could get in the Star Wars universe. )

 

Darth Nihilus was never really expressed to have been like that. Darth Nihilus lost his humanity and became "more presence than man", but he did not seem to reject the Force. It was the power of Malachor V itself that seemed to twist his being (as it tainted the Exile's, on a smaller scale), not any such rejection of the Force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but don't you see that this is precisely why Nihilus is connected to the Exile - he is, to use your own terms, the part of the Force that the Exile rejected on Malachor V.

 

He is not whole. He is a void. Thus the name Nihilus - "Nihil" meaning 'nothing' in latin, as others have also correctly pointed out.

 

And while the two 'halves' have been separated for a decade, Nihilus has survived by stealing the life force of force sensitives like some 'force vampire'. Since the will of the force was for the Exile to embrace the dark side on Malachor V, this is why Nihilus is a Sith and kills only jedi. He is powerful, but he is nothing at his center, because his real self, his real individuality, is running around in the outer rim as the Exile. Nihilus shouldn't exist, and he is constantly draining away - he needs to consume force in order to exist, but he cannot drain the Exile because that is himself - he is drawn to the Exile, his true self, not the other way around.

 

And as for them both being tainted, that's another clue - the Exile isn't tainted, is he? He just lost his connection to the force, until the game begins. But as soon as he enters the republic again and so gets closer to Nihilus, poof, his force powers begin to return...