Kreia is Handmaiden's mum?!?!?!

[metadigital]

Maybe the padawan's master's master is the padawan's master, too.

 

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I think I understand what you're saying. I suppose it is possible that she isn't actually that old, just deformed like palpy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One of the side effects of the darkside is accelerated aging. Kreias apparent age isnt enough evidence alone to say she isnt Kea.

[metadigital]

It is a little presumptuous to rule out Kreia based on age, anyway. How old is she meant to look? I can't tell, she's got a blinking hood over her face!

[Cassidy]

Well that, plus a lot of the character's look older than they are intended. At least, they look older to me. Especially desciple.

[metadigital]

Ha! That just makes me feel older, like when I see the police walking their beat, and I think they can't be out of school, yet.

 

Maybe Kreia, whilst living under the guise of Kae, had one of her (fertilised) embryos kept frozen until some event later in her life ...

[Cassidy]

Maybe Kreia, whilst living under the guise of Kae, had one of her (fertilised) embryos kept frozen until some event later in her life ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You're starting to sound like Eddo.

[Calax]

the difference is Eddo's stuff will never happen in a million years Meta's might

[E_Motion]

I see what you are saying.  Nevertheless even your version of events doesn't preclude the possibility that Kreia fought on Malachor V (She could have been there more than once).

So, the statement that something didn't happen, but that something else did, doesn't preclude the possibility of something that didn't happen, happening? What? I was just repeating the canon, here, and it says no. Who knows what it would have said if the storyline was fully explored?

Let me try again. The fact that Kreia was there at a later time (after the Mandalorian Wars) proves nothing, one way or the other, regarding the question of whether she was there at an earlier time (during the Mandalorian Wars). If you can't understand this, I can't help you.

[Chimaera182]

Kriea never fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Kriea was always a Master not a Knight. Kriea trained Revan, she was a teacher not a follower. She is not her mother.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But Kreia did say that the Sith in KotOR II were forged from the Mandalorian Wars; she is one of the Sith. Therefore, she was involved in the Mandalorian Wars. And if Kreia is, in fact, Handmaiden's mother, Master Kae definitely did drop everything to rush to the front lines.

[DeathScepter]

Just because she said that the Sith Forged the Mandalorian Wars. It doesnt mean that she was a Sith Lord during the Mandalorian Wars.

[Jediphile]

Indeed, there is a line that wasn't used in the game where Disciple can't remember Revans first master (which we know was Kreia) but still remembers Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, but you remember incorrectly. The actual line from Disciple is this:

 

"Revan sought out many other teachers to learn certain techniques. I do not recall who Revan's master was... strange. As a Padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae, before she was exiled. Strange, I do not recall who Revan's master was after that.And it is said that he went to his first - and final - master to learn how to leave the order entirely, as she had."

 

Note that the master Disciple fails to remember is Revan's master *after* Kae. Therefore it cannot be the first and final master, that Revan returned to in the end, and who we know is Kreia.

[BattleCookiee]

Since the other Kreia/Kae is closed, and some people didn't like that and wanted to continue the convo, this one can be suitable to continue...

Old topic: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=36224

 

Even more on it:

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...0%20Arren&st=60

 

Or:

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=31591&hl=

[Jediphile]

One thing I noticed concerns Kae's exile from the jedi order.

 

We're told that the reason for it is that she has a child and is disgraced when this is discovered, and then she is exiled from the order, since jedi aren't allowed to have children.

 

But one thing that struck me as odd is that we heard about Jolee Bindo's backstory in K1, and his infraction of the rules seems to be far worse. He took a wife, which is against the rules in the first place. Then he taught her the jedi ways against the wishes of the masters. She then turned Sith and joined Exar Kun's ranks in the Sith War. She tried to recruit Jolee to the dark side, and when he wouldn't, she tried to kill him. He defeated her, but could not bring himself to kill her, and so she lived and escaped to kill other jedi. And what did the jedi order do? They forgave Jolee. They said he needed sympathy. Jolee left the order not because they blamed him, but because he couldn't stop blaming himself, and they wouldn't take his guilt seriously. Jolee knew the responsibility was his and he accepted it. The council could learn a lot from Jolee.

 

Now, Kae has a child and she's exiled for it? Next to Jolee, that seems to be an exceedingly harsh and cruel sentence. So she fell in love and had a child. Big deal. Jolee not only fell in love, he married and taught the force to someone who then couldn't handle it. His crime was far greater, yet he was pardoned? Odd...

 

But the thing about Kae's sentences is to consider the source. It's Kreia who tells us that this was the reason she was exiled. Nobody else ever tells us that. Disciple mentions that Kae was exiled, but he doesn't say why. Handmaiden never even mentions that her mother was exiled at all.

 

So both Kae and Kreia had Revan as a padawan. Not merely apprentice - the term "padawan" is specifically used in both cases.

 

We have both of them exiled at the same time, just before the Mandalorian Wars. Kreia for her dark teachings and Kae for having a child. But for Kae we only know that from Kreia herself, and she could have ulterior motives for being less than truthful, especially if she is Kae and her daughter is aboard (and I don't think you get that conversation path unless the Handmaiden is aboard, since it occurs in relation to her presence).

 

And we have have both of them presumed dead during the Mandalorian Wars.

 

Though it is indeed circumstantial evidence, I do find it to be rather convincing. They could be different people, but those are a lot of coinciding factors...

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Now, Kae has a child and she's exiled for it? Next to Jolee, that seems to be an exceedingly harsh and cruel sentence. So she fell in love and had a child. Big deal. Jolee not only fell in love, he married and taught the force to someone who then couldn't handle it. His crime was far greater, yet he was pardoned? Odd..."

 

Is it really a greater crime? Kae no longer had allegiance to the Jedi after having a child. The child would come before the Jedi - no matter what.

[Jediphile]

Is it really a greater crime? Kae no longer had allegiance to the Jedi after having a child. The child would come before the Jedi - no matter what.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Jolee broke the code by:

 

- Falling in love and getting married.

- Training her in the ways of the force against the masters' wishes.

- Didn't stop her when she turned dark side.

- Allowed her to kill other jedi.

 

Kae broke the code by:

 

- Falling in love and having a child.

 

 

Which is worse?

 

Would Kae's child come before the jedi no matter what? She did send it away and kept it hidden for a decade. Doesn't suggest to me that she placed it above the order.

 

And even if it did, Jolee got married. People will go rather far for their spouses - just look at how far Anakin will go to save Padm

[zeroFantasy]

Kreia looks more like like Atris' mother o.O

[Dark Moth]

We love links!!! We love them!!!

 

Link for Kreia

 

Link for Revan

 

Hope this might at least answer a few questions about Kreia. The only reason I included the Revan link was because it referred to Kreia and Kae as separate people (the part where it talks about his masters). I don't know, but I find that highly suggestive that she wasn't Kae. Interpret it any way you want to. Okay, I'm done for now. Goodnight.

[GhostofAnakin]

We love links!!!  We love them!!! 

 

Link for Kreia

 

Link for Revan

 

Hope this might at least answer a few questions about Kreia.  The only reason I included the Revan link was because it referred to Kreia and Kae as separate people (the part where it talks about his masters).  I don't know, but I find that highly suggestive that she wasn't Kae.  Interpret it any way you want to.    Okay, I'm done for now.  Goodnight. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That site uses a lot of speculation though, so just because they worded it like that doesn't mean Kreia and Kae are different people.

[Jediphile]

Hope this might at least answer a few questions about Kreia.  The only reason I included the Revan link was because it referred to Kreia and Kae as separate people (the part where it talks about his masters).  I don't know, but I find that highly suggestive that she wasn't Kae.  Interpret it any way you want to.    Okay, I'm done for now.  Goodnight. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, of course it says that - we're never told that Kae and Kreia are the same, so naturally they have to approach it that way, unless they're going to support conjecture about them being the same person.

 

Here we discuss details of the game itself, however, and so we're much closer to the original subject matter than they are on a site, where they try to give a mroe broad description.

 

I mean, answers.com or wikipedia merely give an summary of the characters, whereas we can look at the matter in far more detail and even speculate about actual dialogue from the game to reach new conclusions, since we all know the game and its characters already.

[Ulicus]

One thing I noticed concerns Kae's exile from the jedi order.

 

We're told that the reason for it is that she has a child and is disgraced when this is discovered, and then she is exiled from the order, since jedi aren't allowed to have children.

 

But one thing that struck me as odd is that we heard about Jolee Bindo's backstory in K1, and his infraction of the rules seems to be far worse. He took a wife, which is against the rules in the first place. Then he taught her the jedi ways against the wishes of the masters. She then turned Sith and joined Exar Kun's ranks in the Sith War. She tried to recruit Jolee to the dark side, and when he wouldn't, she tried to kill him. He defeated her, but could not bring himself to kill her, and so she lived and escaped to kill other jedi. And what did the jedi order do? They forgave Jolee. They said he needed sympathy. Jolee left the order not because they blamed him, but because he couldn't stop blaming himself, and they wouldn't take his guilt seriously. Jolee knew the responsibility was his and he accepted it. The council could learn a lot from Jolee.

 

Now, Kae has a child and she's exiled for it? Next to Jolee, that seems to be an exceedingly harsh and cruel sentence. So she fell in love and had a child. Big deal. Jolee not only fell in love, he married and taught the force to someone who then couldn't handle it. His crime was far greater, yet he was pardoned? Odd...

 

Not really, they commited their "offences" at different times. Jolee during the TotJ era, where the Jedi were more liberal with things like love and marriage - I mean Andur was married to Nomi.

 

Generally, it's believed that the "Thou shalt not marry/thou shalt not love" stuff came into affect sometime after the Sith War. No doubt these sorts of changes had yet to come into affect when Jolee was tried. As the younger masters (Vrook - ha, imagine young Vrook!) superceded these old masters, they brought their own more "right-wing" opinions, having been knights seeing comrades fall during the Sith War, often due to emotions like love- thus the Jedi Order became more rigid and unforgiving of such crimes.

 

That's the stance I take on it anyway.

[Marka Ragnos]

One thing I noticed concerns Kae's exile from the jedi order.

 

We're told that the reason for it is that she has a child and is disgraced when this is discovered, and then she is exiled from the order, since jedi aren't allowed to have children.

 

But one thing that struck me as odd is that we heard about Jolee Bindo's backstory in K1, and his infraction of the rules seems to be far worse. He took a wife, which is against the rules in the first place. Then he taught her the jedi ways against the wishes of the masters. She then turned Sith and joined Exar Kun's ranks in the Sith War. She tried to recruit Jolee to the dark side, and when he wouldn't, she tried to kill him. He defeated her, but could not bring himself to kill her, and so she lived and escaped to kill other jedi. And what did the jedi order do? They forgave Jolee. They said he needed sympathy. Jolee left the order not because they blamed him, but because he couldn't stop blaming himself, and they wouldn't take his guilt seriously. Jolee knew the responsibility was his and he accepted it. The council could learn a lot from Jolee.

 

Now, Kae has a child and she's exiled for it? Next to Jolee, that seems to be an exceedingly harsh and cruel sentence. So she fell in love and had a child. Big deal. Jolee not only fell in love, he married and taught the force to someone who then couldn't handle it. His crime was far greater, yet he was pardoned? Odd...

 

Not really, they commited their "offences" at different times. Jolee during the TotJ era, where the Jedi were more liberal with things like love and marriage - I mean Andur was married to Nomi.

 

Generally, it's believed that the "Thou shalt not marry/thou shalt not love" stuff came into affect sometime after the Sith War. No doubt these sorts of changes had yet to come into affect when Jolee was tried. As the younger masters (Vrook - ha, imagine young Vrook!) superceded these old masters, they brought their own more "right-wing" opinions, having been knights seeing comrades fall during the Sith War, often due to emotions like love- thus the Jedi Order became more rigid and unforgiving of such crimes.

 

That's the stance I take on it anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nomi only undertook jedi training when her husband died.

[cyn_dolores]

Maybe Kreia is Disciple's mom. I see some resemblance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

funny one :D

[Ulicus]

nomi only undertook jedi training when her husband died.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No s*it, and what was it Andur was again?

 

[dufflover]

Maybe Kreia is Disciple's mom. I see some resemblance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

funny one :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That pairing reminds me of Shrek 2 Prince Charming and the Fairy Godmother (although it looks nothing like her).

[Calax]

nomi only undertook jedi training when her husband died.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No s*it, and what was it Andur was again?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh Oh OH ! I know... it was.... a Bounty Hunter! no.... Droid mechanic, Jem Cutter, DuffLover...

 

(seriously he seemed more like a bounty hunter with a glowing stick than a Jedi. I mean who carries around a bunch of crystals just to show them off to his master? and who uses a droid as a pilot?