Was (Darth) Revan Evil?

[Weaponmaster303]

Exactly he was ls and maybe had good intent but ended up falling to the ds and changing his ideas.If he redeemed himself though is totally on the player.

[LordRahl33]

OK, let me try clarifying again - if you vote, with a conclusion of that he tried to take over the Republic (even if he originally did the whole sacrafcing stuff and got too deep, needing rescueing himself), that is still "Evil" DS.

I guess Evil was a bad word - Sidious is a Sith Lord who, besides from the Jedi, wasn't some brute like Malak.

So fine, ignore the word evil if you must - just DS then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I don't think anyone can deny that he was "on" the Dark Side of the Force while he was "Darth Revan". Whether it was a sacrifice and he allowed himself to fall or it was plain ol' corruption, he still became "aligned" with the Dark Side of the Force. (Even along the former branch -- the idea that Revan allowed himself to fall knowingly -- if the Dark Side of the Force had not changed him at all, how would it have even been a "sacrifice"? What would he have lost if he was completely in control and had not changed?)

 

So, I suppose the question here should be, "How far do you think he was into the Dark Side of the Force and what do you believe were the true circumstances of his fall?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, but I think he may have started out with good intentions, BUt he definetly fell. Doesnt really matter HOW he got there, Its that he was definetly at that point. Malak was definetly more evil than him though, if not as smart or as powerful.

[Weaponmaster303]

Just goes to show you that nobody can really control the ds.

[LordRahl33]

Just goes to show you that nobody can really control the ds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup, Its soo true.

[Grant Dempsey]

Well...that wasn't exactly what I meant, though.

[Arch Enemy]

By the way, Arch Enemy, how are the Jedi as evil as the Sith?  Enlighten me, please.    If you're using KOTOR II as your background, then remember this: the developers twisted the Jedi to make them less good and fit their own perception of the Star Wars universe.

 

Alright,

First off, like I've said before Good is just a perspective, true there's usually a common ground when this perspective is compared and that is what we consider as "Good". Throughout the time of the Old (and sometimes the New) Republic you see faults and ways it could be mended. Sith are usually the ones who emphasize on these faults and use these flaws to rally supporters, in doing so they are percieved as the protagonist in the Star Wars universe.

Yes, mainly the Sith use the war against the Republic as a cover-up, but if you re-call the Jedi don't do politics, so they engage in Political matters as a cover-up to combat the Sith. Both sides main objectives are to kill each other, at whatever means possible and no questions. In a situation of two sides lashing out at each other with the same anger and the same hatred towards the other, who is the lesser of the two evils? are they not the same?

 

Jedi and Sith, as we know it, were once all under a single Jedi rule. But with the teachings of certain Jedi Masters who've found the force to be a weapon, they've taken a path down another road.. they eventually became known as the Sith. So they're the same who don't have any toleration for the others.

Whether the Jedis' know it or not, they use the Force as a weapon as well, they just don't use it to cause direct harm to another..

[Calax]

I'm suprised nobody bothered to mention that thrawn was alien. and he became one of the most powerful people

[dufflover]

To say that he was still LS when Malak betrayed him is still, I think, ridiculous.  Even if he left many worlds intact, that was because he wanted to use them for his own ends more than he cared about the life on those worlds. 

That's what I'm getting at - the initial act may have been for good intentions but in the end, as Darth Revan, he was a true DS person. The last option is supposed to be people who think he was acting for the best intentions of the Republic even up to the point of his capture.

[Arch Enemy]

I'm suprised nobody bothered to mention that thrawn was alien. and he became one of the most powerful people

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thrawn was an execption, he was a talented Admiral and the empire needed him.

 

The Chiss's loss became Palpatine's gain. Agents of the new Emperor discovered Thrawn on a barren jungle world and took him into their ranks. Despite a strong policy against non-human officers in the Imperial Navy, Thrawn ascended the Imperial ranks

 

Notice the racism.

[guybrush threepwood]

The last option is supposed to be people who think he was acting for the best intentions of the Republic even up to the point of his capture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Which he may have been doing. If you listen in KotOR 2, from what Kreia, and to a lesser extent goto say, it can easily be determined that Revan was preparing for a war against the true sith. Sure, he fell to the dark side, but it was a controlled fall the entire way. It makes sense why he saw the star forge as a factory and nothing more, so he wouldn't be further corrupted. After launching his campaign, there is no reason to believe he changed his intentions.

 

And the reason why he turned on the republic was because it was weak, the infinite fleet he could produce, to recruit, and possibly the power of the dark side, to stop the true sith. The jedi council would never have okayed the use of the star forge.

 

It may be that he just doesn't like the true sith, but he is preparing for war and he believes he is the best chance of success.

[Weaponmaster303]

Revan never intended to just keep on using the star forge it says so somewhere in k1 or k2 but i dont really remember where.He knew its power was limited and knew that he could completely be taken over by the ds.

[dufflover]

If you listen in KotOR 2, from what Kreia, and to a lesser extent  goto

The idea is I listened to Kreia and found it to be a sack of crap...well, you get the idea.

 

it can easily be determined that Revan was preparing for a war against the true sith. Sure, he fell to the dark side, but it was a controlled fall the entire way. It makes sense why he saw the star forge as a factory and nothing more, so he wouldn't be further corrupted. After launching his campaign, there is no reason to believe he changed his intentions.

 

And the reason why he turned on the republic was because it was weak, the infinite fleet he could produce, to recruit, and possibly the power of the dark side, to stop the true sith. The jedi council would never have okayed the use of the star forge.

 

It may be that he just doesn't like the true sith, but he is preparing for war and he believes he is the best chance of success.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And this is doesn't earn him the DS vote?

[Grant Dempsey]

The idea is I listened to Kreia and found it to be a sack of crap...well, you get the idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was no indication in the game itself that what Kreia said was intended to come across as "a sack of crap". Frankly, Kreia was probably our best source of information in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords when it came to Revan. It clearly wasn't all intended to be, "Oh, Wacky Insane Kreia's at it again with her foolishness!" or anything like that; it was a pretty clear offering of insight into Revan's character. So, like I said, feel free to ignore what was said, if you would really prefer to do so, I guess, but you can't then really expect your perspective to become the standard.

[Darth_Onivega]

He was DS, though he was one of the most intelligent Sith of his time, during the Jedi Civil War, he had Jedi captured to break them into joining him or kill them.

[Titosros]

Reaven was evil before he got capture by the Rupublic Reaven was knock out cold when something exploded on him and Bastila use the Force to revive him and the Jedi Countil gived Reaven a new memory.

[Calax]

the whole falling to the dark side for the greater good doesn't lend it self to jedi code or to human common sense (i can see it now the new jedi creed, In case of emergancy use emotion to win battles) I don't remember what i said CRAP.................................................................. But what he did wasn't truly evil just as what the council did during the beginning of the mandalorian war wasn't truly good. (I find it odd that that Council had serious problems going to war against an aggressor while in the movies it was all they could think about.) Everything is shades of grey. That's the lesson of the Jedi Civil war. You cannot be strict in adherence to a code when one of the tenant say's that you will protect the unprotected while the unprotected are being slaughtered wholesale. but you can't be completly whimisical about what you do. you have to look at it (amount of time depends on the seriousness) then start to kick ass and take names

[Sumo Joe]

Revan was trying to take control of the Republic because he despised weakness. He wasn't completely evil, as the mandalorians aren't completly evil. But as the Star Forge uses the dark side of the force he couldn't have used it if he wasn't DS.

[Janmanden]

I agree with anyone who says that Revan was beyond Good and Evil. Revan had a passion for justice and fairness that was nowhere to be found with the Mandalorians, the Republic or the Jedi Order and thus he waged war on them all. He was neutral. A seeker of balance.

[dufflover]

A seeker of balance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds exactly like the trash talk from Kreia.... "

[Janmanden]

A seeker of balance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds exactly like the trash talk from Kreia.... "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hm.. You are right, it does sound like common sense and that in itself is really bad because SW is all about good and evil and nothing else, which isn't common sense at all.

[Blank]

"LS Jedi who sacrificed himself to DS to prepare the galaxy"

that has to be the dumbest and least supported idea i have heard in the k2 spoilers forum. sadly, it is in second for votes in this thread.

 

its one thing to think of your hero as always having been a good guy, but this is just false. he "fell" to the DS, he didn't say, "oh, i am LS so to be an even better LS i will be DS".

 

what "preparation" for the galaxy are you referring to? when he went to stop the mandalorians, i was under the impression that he hadn't become DS yet. He became DS when he was corrupted by the star forge and its offer of power.

 

okay, i am too into this, i had better go

[Kalfear]

LOL of course he was evil!

 

The whole taking over the republic, killing people that stood against HIS beleifs, Captureing and turning jedi to his beliefs.

 

It doesnt matter what his motives were created from, the way he went about it was evil.

 

Hitler did much the same thing and we wouldnt call him LS but using the darkside to his advantage!

 

Revan was a smart evil before being turned back to the lightside, but he was evil all the same!

 

LOL, Im amazed this is even debated to be honest!

Edited December 15, 2005 by Kalfear

[Dark Moth]

I agree with anyone who says that Revan was beyond Good and Evil. Revan had a passion for justice and fairness that was nowhere to be found with the Mandalorians, the Republic or the Jedi Order and thus he waged war on them all. He was neutral. A seeker of balance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, he wasn't. He was who you made him out to be. K2 only tried to give every one of his actions some hidden, strategic motive in some crazy effort to turn him into a hero know matter what you did. But regardless, he could be good or evil. I don't care for what reason, slaughtering countless innocents in a war against the Republic is evil, and I think the whole "falling to the darkside because he had too" thing was complete bullcrap. They tried to turn Revan into a god and it only made his character worse and less realistic, IMO. Also, him fighting the Republic to "prepare it" is really unrealistic if you think about it. Anyone who knows war knows that war always weakens the nations involved. By doing what he did, he didn't prepare the Galaxy for the True Sith, he only weakened it. Maybe he's not as brilliant a strategist as Kreia thought.

Edited December 15, 2005 by Mothman

[Styur Voln]

Yes, Revan was smart, but only an idiot denies that he wasn't evil. What part of torturing, killing jedi and slaughtering millions can be classed as good? He was a smart evil, and IMO that is undeniable.

[dufflover]

It's up to you whether that last poll option refers to him still being LS or DS, although my thinking is DS, like how (well, not really maybe) Anakin goes DS thinking it'll help Padme - but then that would make Revan as dumb as Anakin/Vader thinking DS would help the galaxy...oh well, looks like Obsidian has done that already