Same blurb as above, could be said about Stalin.

 

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That's very true; but in essence the determination of good vs. evil depends on who writes the history books (i.e., the winner of the conflict).

Very True.

Keeping the Republic safe from the True Sith may seem like the sacrafice/LS option but if Darth Revan is a smart Sith Lord who judged the True Sith (which btw, I'm not too fond of either unless they're dead) to be a greater threat, and thus to be taken care of first, it is still classic power-hungry Sith that they still control the galaxy.

Same blurb as above, could be said about Stalin.

 

This is a common argument- and extremely stupid, to boot.

 

I suppose any rock is evil next because Hitler could have used it to bash in some poor jew's head. I fail to see the logic in this.

Let's sorta clarify something - if Revan wanted to eventually rule the Republic, that is DS.

Let's sorta clarify something - if Revan wanted to eventually rule the Republic, that is DS.

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That's a big 'if.'

 

If Revan had simply wanted to rule the Republic, he could've let Malak finish the grunt work, and then taken over. Or with the Republic on its knees after Malak's defeat, he could've finished the job--he had the tools at hand. Instead, he handed it back.

 

Some folks aren't suited to sitting behind a desk and ruling; they're restless souls that soon lose interest. Fix something that's broken, and move on to another frontier.

Same blurb as above, could be said about Stalin.

 

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That's very true; but in essence the determination of good vs. evil depends on who writes the history books (i.e., the winner of the conflict).

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Yeah? Sonny, Stalin murdered millions and today commies try to cover that by saying that he was trying to fight social injustice. Revan tried to take over the galaxy, also murdered millions and now morons like you try to cover him, only becouse he was your PC and you feel powerful thanks to him.

Oh, please. Apart from the fact that I don't find your petty views on good and evil all that useful...

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The title of the thread is "Was (Darth) Revan Evil?". I have disagreed with your views, but I haven't insulted them, and I'd appreciate the same consideration.

what is in contention here is not wheter Revan was nice or bad but wheter or not she weakened the republic knowingly.

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So I'm Revan, I've just won the Mandalorian Wars and discovered the Star Forge. Do I:

 

A) Use the Star Forge to build up a massive army, wait for the True Sith to arrive and use my fleet to defend the galaxy or even offer it to the Republic for that purpose.

 

B) Declare myself Darth Revan, launch a massive war against the Republic, causing immense loss of life, demoralisation/war-weariness, destroying half the Republic's defensive capabilities and weakening my own at the same time.

 

Even leaving good or evil out of it, option B doesn't look like the best way.

It all depends on what you choose to view as "evil", you know. And even then, what other path were there?

 

Understand that you make this assumption with no knowledge whatsoever of the alternatives presented to her- therefore, the "if she was good she'd have done something else" rhetoric is rather... lacking. What if there wasn't something else to do?

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It's not her decision to make. How dare she take it upon herself to 'save the galaxy' from some unknown threat that she won't even tell anyone about! If she has evidence of a threat, let her tell the Republic Senate - the Jedi Council - the media - anyone at all. No, there wasn't any evidence - it's Iraq and WMDs all over again.

 

If you don't like the word 'evil', that's fine - I don't find it helpful in these discussions, because as you say, it means different things to different people. Revan was a mass murderer - surely we can agree on that? You may say that it doesn't matter - what matters is whether she saved the galaxy. Fine - she saved the galaxy from the True Sith. Why couldn't she have saved it from herself and Malak as well?

 

I will take a lot of convincing that the True Sith would have been worse than what Darth Revan and Malak did to the galaxy - but that also is not the point. The point is that it was not their right to make that choice on behalf of the whole galaxy.

I voted revan was ls but fell to ds to protect others but im not thinkin exactly like that quote. I think he was a young overconfident jedi knight sorta like anakin.He believed he could control the ds but eventually fell to it and blah blah blah.

He is very evil like malak, but he turns up a little to light with the help of bastila, if bastila wasn't show up revan will be very very evil. So i say DS.

This all depends on how you play Kotor I.

Before the game starts, he is obviously evil because of his agressive ambition and indifference towards human life, or a wookie's life for that matter.

I voted revan was ls but fell to ds to protect others but im not thinkin exactly like that quote. I think he was a young overconfident jedi knight sorta like anakin.He believed he could control the ds but eventually fell to it and blah blah blah.

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Yeah I was getting to that...

 

Revan was like what, 17 years old?

the reason revan never looked ds was because they were his memories which had been whiped and made him into a neutral// light sider again, the memories just switched out what his mind portrayed the present self to be, come on ppl.

 

also revan was ds like sidious because the star forge corrupted him, that and he was learning as many ds powers as possible-malachor, korriban-he was training sith. plus he was power hungry to begin with when he ran into the mandalorian wars, no one can say yet but i think he saw an opportunity.

I HAVE A NEURAL BLENDER AND I KNOW HOW TO USE IT.

 

Guy's you can't use the "falls for the good so he's light side" 9 times out of ten a sith lord is a former jedi who tried to infiltrate the sith to make them less potent and learn their plans. these guy's soon became real sith and began to hunt their former brothers and try to mop the floor with the order. As i said before Ulic is the paragon of this. He nearly brought down the republic, the only reason he wasn't severly punished was because he made himself dissapear AFTER he lost his power.

I've always held the belief (if you play LS) that Revan was a very LS Jedi before the Mandalorian wars. However, because of the corruption brought onto him by many things (the Mandalorian wars, the Star Forge, Malachor V, Kreia's teachings), he turned evil. That, and his lust for power drove him to try to conquer the Republic and eventually the True Sith empire.

 

The idea that he fell to the darkside because he had too doesn't make sense. The darkside is not something you break open in case of war. <_< I think Revan wanted to destroy the power structure of the Republic and replace it with his own empire. In reality, though, that is still not saving the Republic, it is destroying it. Darth Sidious did the same thing. He didn't destroy any worlds, but he destroyed the Republic and replaced it with the Galactic Empire. Revan tried to do the same thing, but it was not saving the Republic, it was still destroying it.

I think the last option where Revan gives in to DS for the greater good was originally Revan't intent. But it didn't work out that way and Revan got too caught up and carried a way in the DS and became Sidious Evil.

Revan was evil who executed his will with a fine surgical scalpel unlike Malak who just used a sledge hammer to get his way.

 

Revan may have started off "doing the right thing" but in the end became corrupted.

well, it was revan's frustration with the jedi council doing nothing and the republic being weak that drove him to the darkside. he never wanted to save the republic, he wanted to replace it with his army, (I dont remember where I saw this but) he tought that whoever the winner of the war would be the stronger and the better placed to protect the galaxy, that's why he left infrastructure intact, but we know only too well what happened

Let's sorta clarify something - if Revan wanted to eventually rule the Republic, that is DS.

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Why would that even have to be true? Shouldn't it depend more on the person's intentions and motives and whatnot? It would be like saying that every Supreme Chancellor was "evil" because they decided to run for office at all...or that the Jedi Order was "evil" for putting itself in the position of the Galactic Republic's primary "keepers of the peace".

 

This would be where the absolute truth of Revan's actions, intentions, and motives have been made somewhat unclear, though. Kreia's dialogue certainly -- and quite blatantly -- implied that there was more to Revan's fall to the Dark Side of the Force than just plain ol' "corruption" and that his ultimate goal may have been to defend the galaxy the entire time. However, from other sources, including several who knew Revan first-hand (such as Atton Rand and HK-47), it was clear that Revan wasn't very "goody-two-shoes" about getting things done, certainly. I guess this would be a bit like the question, "If you could develop a cure that would end cancer all around the world, but would require sacrificing an innocent child to do so, would you sacrifice that child?"

 

I do like the idea that the Dark Side of the Force did change him, even if he remained in control enough to prevent himself from becoming too far gone (such as by keeping himself from using the Star Forge beyond a certain point to avoid its influence and such), and it even seemed to be the case (even Kreia implied that he was indeed changed to some degree on the surface). I don't, however, like the idea that he just grew into an average Sith Lord, into Exar Kun all over again, and that really didn't seem to be the case. You would have to ignore what Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords revealed about him, which is certainly your right, I guess, but you can't expect everyone else to rush to agree with you.

 

(Besides, heck, if there was ever anything that Revan seemed to be "obsessed" with, I would say it was knowledge, more than power...judging from Kreia's assessment of him. After all, according to Kreia, during his time with the Jedi Order, before he left for the Mandalorian Wars, he went from place to place, from mentor to mentor, in relentless pursuit of knowledge, to learn all that he could learn. Though, of course, "power is knowledge and knowledge is power", which seemed especially true in the mythology of Star Wars, so I suppose one could argue that...)

OK, let me try clarifying again - if you vote, with a conclusion of that he tried to take over the Republic (even if he originally did the whole sacrafcing stuff and got too deep, needing rescueing himself), that is still "Evil" DS.

I guess Evil was a bad word - Sidious is a Sith Lord who, besides from the Jedi, wasn't some brute like Malak.

So fine, ignore the word evil if you must - just DS then.

Let's sorta clarify something - if Revan wanted to eventually rule the Republic, that is DS.

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Wrong, Actually. Ruling the Republic is not a sign of the Dark-Side. It's not how much one rules it's how they rule it.

 

Remember, the other Jedi Potential of the Original Series, did eventually "Rule The Republic"

Same blurb as above, could be said about Stalin.

 

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That's very true; but in essence the determination of good vs. evil depends on who writes the history books (i.e., the winner of the conflict).

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Yeah? Sonny, Stalin murdered millions and today commies try to cover that by saying that he was trying to fight social injustice. Revan tried to take over the galaxy, also murdered millions and now morons like you try to cover him, only becouse he was your PC and you feel powerful thanks to him.

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so he redeemed himself in the end by killing Malak and saving the galaxy(if LS)

OK, let me try clarifying again - if you vote, with a conclusion of that he tried to take over the Republic (even if he originally did the whole sacrafcing stuff and got too deep, needing rescueing himself), that is still "Evil" DS.

I guess Evil was a bad word - Sidious is a Sith Lord who, besides from the Jedi, wasn't some brute like Malak.

So fine, ignore the word evil if you must - just DS then.

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No, Sidious was a "Brute" what he did inbetween the time of Episode III and Episode IV is considered Brutal. He begin discriminating Racially and Sexually. Wonder why there isn't any female commanders, or why there's no Alien commanders?

 

You consider the destruction of an entire planet not "Brutal"!? But then again, in my opinion the Jedi are just as evil as the Sith... don't forget, "Good is a point of view"

I think the last option where Revan gives in to DS for the greater good was originally Revan't intent. But it didn't work out that way and Revan got too caught up and carried a way in the DS and became Sidious Evil.

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Actually, I never thought of it that way, but you're right. Revan could have used the darkside's power to try and fight the Sith, but in the end became controlled by it and lost his purpose to protect the Republic. That is still open to interpretation, however. I hated how after KOTOR II, Revan seemed less like your character.

 

To say that he was still LS when Malak betrayed him is still, I think, rediculous. Even if he left many worlds intact, that was because he wanted to use them for his own ends more than he cared about the life on those worlds.

 

By the way, Arch Enemy, how are the Jedi as evil as the Sith? Enlighten me, please. If you're using KOTOR II as your background, then remember this: the developers twisted the Jedi to make them less good and fit their own perception of the Star Wars universe.

OK, let me try clarifying again - if you vote, with a conclusion of that he tried to take over the Republic (even if he originally did the whole sacrafcing stuff and got too deep, needing rescueing himself), that is still "Evil" DS.

I guess Evil was a bad word - Sidious is a Sith Lord who, besides from the Jedi, wasn't some brute like Malak.

So fine, ignore the word evil if you must - just DS then.

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No, Sidious was a "Brute" what he did inbetween the time of Episode III and Episode IV is considered Brutal. He begin discriminating Racially and Sexually. Wonder why there isn't any female commanders, or why there's no Alien commanders?

 

You consider the destruction of an entire planet not "Brutal"!? But then again, in my opinion the Jedi are just as evil as the Sith... don't forget, "Good is a point of view"

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well there was Admiral Daala from EU she counts, i guess

OK, let me try clarifying again - if you vote, with a conclusion of that he tried to take over the Republic (even if he originally did the whole sacrafcing stuff and got too deep, needing rescueing himself), that is still "Evil" DS.

I guess Evil was a bad word - Sidious is a Sith Lord who, besides from the Jedi, wasn't some brute like Malak.

So fine, ignore the word evil if you must - just DS then.

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Well, I don't think anyone can deny that he was "on" the Dark Side of the Force while he was "Darth Revan". Whether it was a sacrifice and he allowed himself to fall or it was plain ol' corruption, he still became "aligned" with the Dark Side of the Force. (Even along the former branch -- the idea that Revan allowed himself to fall knowingly -- if the Dark Side of the Force had not changed him at all, how would it have even been a "sacrifice"? What would he have lost if he was completely in control and had not changed?)

 

So, I suppose the question here should be, "How far do you think he was into the Dark Side of the Force and what do you believe were the true circumstances of his fall?"