Kotor 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Eddo36]

If you want an epic battle with large numbers of troops, that's fine.  But I don't want 20 boring party members.  I want 5 or 6 great ones.

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I thought the assault on the

Iziz Sky Ramp

had it about right...you get some extra troops but they are AI-controlled...hirelings could work like that.

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Well, I was referring to you commanding and deploying troops to be more plot/story related than combat gameplay related, but I guess either way can work.

[metadigital]

I'd rather have a choice of ships with the ebon hawk being the default ship. And although I didn't enjoy the mini games since they were either too hard or too easy and not all that fun I'd actually like to fly the ship the next time around in a minigame and as the default way of getting around. You could even have the player switching back to crawling around the ship fixing things and or fighting off boarders/saboteurs. I'd also like there to be a piloting skill so you can let the characters do the driving and maybe to boost your twitch skils.

Whatever you do don't use the same engine again, I'd like a prettier game next time with more realistic characters.

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Or even have more than one landing zone on a planet, so that we can pilot to different areas without need for hyperspace journeys, thus making the planets bigger and more involved.

 

The seaside at the Forbidden Planet and Telos was a nice change, the underground bunker and maybe a desert and an underwater setting: but all on one planet.

 

Then have a mechanised planet, like Taris was or Telos will be and Nar Shadaa is. Aslo, it would be god to go to the ruins of Taris, maybe looking for some artefact, and dig in the rubble / fight some monsters there / find the underworld people we saved in K1 in their promised land (maybe an underground cavern,

[Sabahattin Dere]

If you want an epic battle with large numbers of troops, that's fine.  But I don't want 20 boring party members.  I want 5 or 6 great ones.

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Now that I've seen it mentioned, let me say that I'd like Kotor 3 to feature an epic space battle: The SW-feel would be left incomplete in the absence of one; if the Kotor games aspire to be SW game/movies, then it's time they introduced fully fledged space combat in which the Player has at least some role as a pilot. (Well, K1 had the 'battle of Star Forge'-----during which, we were on foot.)

 

When I had first read complaints over the ebon hawk shooter mini-game in K1, my immediate response was that capturing the 'classic' SW-feel with that allusion to ANH was a really fine idea, not at all a boring pointless diversion. Now, why not push the idea a little further and have *some sort of* space-simulation in K3?

 

Kotor is no Rebel Assault, I know; but it's time our Kotor-Jedi got to display their skills in the chockpit. In the movies, piloting aircraft appears to be a basic Jedi skill, and offers proof for mastery of the Force-----cf. young Anakin proving himself a prodigy; Luke making the transition from farmboy to rebel hero, etc.

[metadigital]

The only problem with a space battle is that you are almost unable to do so without including a RTS-based element in the game. I don't have a problem, per se, but I would not be surprised to find it was near-on impossible in the current, or similar, KotOR engine. (A minigame turret shooter is one thing, a Warcraft III or X is totally something else.)

 

Also, you are more talking about the Skywalker family, not the Jedi in particular. (Obi-Wan hated flying; I never saw Mace personally in control of a flying machine and Yoda was better at man

[Swmorgan77]

instead of a  two way DS LS bar there should be more than two ways... mabye four. with 2 DS and 2 LS with jedi, republic LS and empire, sith DS (or any type of DS you want)

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I agree with this one, it would be cool to see something like "Chatoic Light Side" alignment, which would be a Jedi/Gray Jedi who maybe takes issue with council decisions, but is still light-side oriented (think Qui-Gon).

[Swmorgan77]

I was kinda hoping to lead an army for a change, but that's just me. Be more of a big taco. You send the right troops to the right system and the outcome of the war is judged by your strategy based on intelligence you collected or something. If you send a lot of troops to one place and then you visit that place, most of the enemy there would have been defeated or so. Have a few close interaction with your top commanders, less with the lesser ranks. Assign different people for recruiting, intel, maybe training, special ops, fleet, whatever. Just thought it would be a nice change from the small party system where you are the hand that holds a bigger spear.

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Sounds a lot like an RTS

[User Name]

I'd like it if KotOR 3 went back to its roots and was more like KotOR than The Sith Lords.

KotOR 3 needs to have:

 

A large-scale war, Sith vs Republic, like in KotOR. Not the quiet battle that no one knew about which was fought during The Sith Lords, something more along the lines of... Well, KotOR 1.

 

It needs to be more star warsy! Like KotOR 1. KotOR 2 wasn't very star warsy.

 

Characters need to be more developed, i.e have more subplots (a la KotOR 1).

 

There needs to be a sense of rip-roaring adventure like in the first KotOR.

 

A familiar planet to the movies would be nice... Tatooine springs to mind, and so does Kashyyk. Both great planets, right? Both have endless possibilities, especially considering you only explored a tiny part of them in KotOR.

 

I want (and a lot of other people do too) a Yoda-type character, preferably in the Jedi Council in KotOR 3. Could be Vandar, doesn't have to be.

 

A plot twist would be nice.

[Sabahattin Dere]

The only problem with a space battle is that you are almost unable to do so without including a RTS-based element in the game. I don't have a problem, per se, but I would not be surprised to find it was near-on impossible in the current, or similar, KotOR engine. (A minigame turret shooter is one thing, a Warcraft III or X is totally something else.)

 

Also, you are more talking about the Skywalker family, not the Jedi in particular. (Obi-Wan hated flying; I never saw Mace personally in control of a flying machine and Yoda was better at man

[User Name]

The only problem with a space battle is that you are almost unable to do so without including a RTS-based element in the game. I don't have a problem, per se, but I would not be surprised to find it was near-on impossible in the current, or similar, KotOR engine. (A minigame turret shooter is one thing, a Warcraft III or X is totally something else.)

 

Also, you are more talking about the Skywalker family, not the Jedi in particular. (Obi-Wan hated flying; I never saw Mace personally in control of a flying machine and Yoda was better at man

[Weiser_Cain]

Actually you could have a space battle the same way you have ground battles in KOTOR All the ships would follow a combat script and you can switch between them and take direct control over them or pause and assign a list of things to do. All you

[User Name]

I was thinking more along the lines of a space battle like in KotOR 1. You're inside the ship and you have a completely integrated and seamless tutorial like in the first game.

I really don't think controlling ships directly is a good idea though...

The furthest I'd go is to be able to give orders like "target that ship while sending some fighters to engage the enemy!", a bit like you're the admiral giving orders from inside the ship, from the bridge.

I think the order thing should be saved until the end, though. At the beginning you should be a soldier or passenger in the ship or whatever, and fight off the Sith who are boarding the ship. Maybe man a turret for a bit as well...

See what I mean?

[Weiser_Cain]

See that was my whole point. otherwise it would seem dull, just another dialouge branch. Just think about it, it gives you a reason to actually care about ships systems, upgrades and repairs. It also makes tech specialist much more useful. Then it introduces the pilot skill which is apparently why you keep people like atton and carth around. You could even play vader and pilot your own fighter or trade in the ebon hawk for a sleek sith destroyer.

[User Name]

See that was my whole point. otherwise it would seem dull, just another dialouge branch. Just think about it, it gives you a reason to actually care about ships systems, upgrades and repairs. It also makes tech specialist much more useful. Then it introduces the pilot skill which is apparently why you keep people like atton and carth around. You could even play vader and pilot your own fighter or trade in the ebon hawk for a sleek sith destroyer.

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Hmm well that actually sounds like a good idea. It would be a really great idea for another Star Wars game, but not KotOR, seeing how the whole system would have to get redone and it would change the whole mechanic of the game.

Who knows, maybe it could get implemented in KotOR IV or some prequels?

 

Anyway another thing I just thought of:

 

BIG IMPORTANT SUGGESTION FOR KOTOR 3 (w00t) :

 

Make it more 'realistic' than The Sith Lords, which was waaay out... I mean, eating planets whole? Wanting the death of the Force?

Good ideas in themselves, but not for Star Wars. The things above are too far out and fantasy-like to be believable.

Make the Sith threat in KotOR 3 a bit more believable (in a Star Wars sense, that is). A bit like in KotOR 1 I guess. See what I mean? I think this was a real problem in The Sith Lords. Some things were... taken too far.

Let's keep it real (again, I mean this in a Star Wars sense..). The game won't be any worse for it, on the contrary, it will only be more interesting and immersive as a result.

[Sabahattin Dere]

Make it more 'realistic' than The Sith Lords, which was waaay out... I mean, eating planets whole? Wanting the death of the Force?

Good ideas in themselves, but not for Star Wars. The things above are too far out and fantasy-like to be believable.

Make the Sith threat in KotOR 3 a bit more believable (in a Star Wars sense, that is). A bit like in KotOR 1 I guess. See what I mean? I think this was a real problem in The Sith Lords. Some things were... taken too far.

Let's keep it real (again, I mean this in a Star Wars sense..). The game won't be any worse for it, on the contrary, it will only be more interesting and immersive as a result.

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Check out the Tales of the Jedi comics; you'd find far more 'fantastic' ideas over there; Kotor draws from that aspect of Star Wars.

 

Actually this was the topic of a hot debate on these forums, almost a year ago. one of the views set forth there, I agree with: the 'Star Wars sense' of the OT was almost wholly circumscribed by the technical difficulties of the 70s. Just compare the two Yodas: The OT Yoda, is an out and out Muppet. The recent one swirls and bounces around, wears all sorts of facial expressions, etc. etc.

 

So anyway: I guess 'The Star Wars Feel' has to do more with the Lucasian 'simple-moralistic-tale' than with any 'realism' (?!!!) as to the extent of powers. Just pull the story right, have it entertaining as opposed to *cought*incomplete*cough* and you can blow up as many star systems as you like.

[User Name]

Make it more 'realistic' than The Sith Lords, which was waaay out... I mean, eating planets whole? Wanting the death of the Force?

Good ideas in themselves, but not for Star Wars. The things above are too far out and fantasy-like to be believable.

Make the Sith threat in KotOR 3 a bit more believable (in a Star Wars sense, that is). A bit like in KotOR 1 I guess. See what I mean? I think this was a real problem in The Sith Lords. Some things were... taken too far.

Let's keep it real (again, I mean this in a Star Wars sense..). The game won't be any worse for it, on the contrary, it will only be more interesting and immersive as a result.

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Check out the Tales of the Jedi comics; you'd find far more 'fantastic' ideas over there; Kotor draws from that aspect of Star Wars.

 

Actually this was the topic of a hot debate on these forums, almost a year ago. one of the views set forth there, I agree with: the 'Star Wars sense' of the OT was almost wholly circumscribed by the technical difficulties of the 70s. Just compare the two Yodas: The OT Yoda, is an out and out Muppet. The recent one swirls and bounces around, wears all sorts of facial expressions, etc. etc.

 

So anyway: I guess 'The Star Wars Feel' has to do more with the Lucasian 'simple-moralistic-tale' than with any 'realism' (?!!!) as to the extent of powers. Just pull the story right, have it entertaining as opposed to *cought*incomplete*cough* and you can blow up as many star systems as you like.

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I agree completely with what you've said, however I do believe believability (relatively speaking) factor in as well. Immersion and enjoyment of the Star Wars universe are hindered if taken too far... The Sith lords in an example I have and will cite time and again.

Intentional or not, the 'Star Warsy' feel has already established itself, and attempts to change this... That's just not right.

I don't see what's wrong with not going overboard with the fantastic here...

 

And anyway sure, some elements of the prequels are more fantastic than their OT counterparts (with varying success.. One thing I did enjoy was Yoda). However most people agree the OT is better than the prequels. And let's not forget the prequels are still relatively believable, and never even come lightyears near what's in KotOR 2 in terms of fantastic stuff.

 

Anywho I'm not trying to argue here. *yaaaaaawn* and I'm tired as hell. I get your points though, and wholeheartedly agree, although I still feel there's more to it than that.

[Darth_Schmarth]

You will generally need to feel like a small guy in a big world from the start. I just loved the feeling in the first Carth chat in the abandoned apartment in the beginning of K1 (lotsa' prepositional phrases for ya there ). It really gave you the feeling of being a small and undetected piece trying to make a difference in something immensely larger.

 

I also wish the game would have several "check-points" where you could fall to the dark side (as in The Big Choice on top of the Rakatan Temple in K1), and it'd be really great if your Master fell to the dark side and you could decide to become his Sith apprentice or flee back to the Order. I want the Sith to try and recruit me! I hate how you always end up mopping Dark Jedi up regardless of if you're LS or DS. When my saber's red I want my enemies to have blue and green sabers; it is really very simple. I remember how much I wished that Darth Nihilus (not that I ever knew his name until suddenly I found myself on the Ravager and had a journal entry to kill him, whereupon I had to add two and two) would capture me on a mission with Atris and make me his apprentice so that I could go kill Atris with my Crimson Blade! As it ended up, she was the one with a Chili Havocbringer... <_<

[Weiser_Cain]

Hmm well that actually sounds like a good idea. It would be a really great idea for another Star Wars game, but not KotOR, seeing how the whole system would have to get redone and it would change the whole mechanic of the game.

Who knows, maybe it could get implemented in KotOR IV or some prequels?

I haven't heard anything on when a new KOTOR game is coming out but unless it's this christmas I see no reason they would be using assets from the first two games. It seems to me that they should shop around for a new engine and while they're at it recreate the whole game to be closer to the D20 game (my preference).

After this game the next KOTOR has got to be big or the series may have sung it's last song.

[EnderAndrew]

Space Battle is a must. I was disappointed they didn't really find a way to incorporate the space battle into KOTOR:1 or 2.

[Plano Skywalker]

instead of a  two way DS LS bar there should be more than two ways... mabye four. with 2 DS and 2 LS with jedi, republic LS and empire, sith DS (or any type of DS you want)

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I agree with this one, it would be cool to see something like "Chatoic Light Side" alignment, which would be a Jedi/Gray Jedi who maybe takes issue with council decisions, but is still light-side oriented (think Qui-Gon).

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I definitely think we need more than just a LS/DS thermometer.

 

I would say keep the LS/DS thing but add a Diplomacy bar....this measures your allegiance to the Republic and respect for its laws (for all practical purposes, it is the Lawful/Chaotic thing).

 

In addition, a field (this one is not a thermometer) that indicates which faction you are most associated with. By default, it would be, simply, "the Republic" but it could change to Czerka, Exchange, New Sith Order, Republic Intelligence, Republic Fleet, etc.

 

Belonging to a faction opens up additional side quests and party members and will act as a modifier to your Persuade skill, depending on who you are talking to.

 

Also, IMO, the LS/DS crossover penalty for Force powers needs to be much harsher.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing a Stamina bar and having the need to rest/sleep.

[metadigital]

Love all the ideas except the stamina bar. (Why?)

 

 

Factions could include the ability to go undercover, and turn spy. And double-agent. This would necessarily affect your lawful alignment barometer ... or would it? If you are following the laws, even if they are diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive at times, you are still following them, so I guess that's still lawful (as in following the laws you set down).

 

Similarly, using a tactic from a different side (healing for DS, Harming for LS) should incur penalties to the PC's lawful barometer.

[Plano Skywalker]

Love all the ideas except the stamina bar. (Why?)

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I don't know...a little added realism...a Morrowind thing.

 

 

Factions could include the ability to go undercover, and turn spy. And double-agent. This would necessarily affect your lawful alignment barometer ... or would it?

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My guess is that the lawful/chaos barometer should be directly tied to your primary faction. If you have no chosen faction, then it is just about obeying the laws of the Republic and its member planets. If you are the member of a faction, then it would be relative to that. For instance, if you are New Sith Order and you help a senator find transport, you are commiting a "Chaotic" act. That is how I believe it would be best implemented.

 

EDIT: but you should NOT be punished with LS points for that...maybe you needed his money or maybe you plan to cash in on your newly-found influence later....don't just assume I'm being a Boy Scout when I help someone...that sort of thing.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

EDIT:  but you should NOT be punished with LS points for that...maybe you needed his money or maybe you plan to cash in on your newly-found influence later....don't just assume I'm being a Boy Scout when I help someone...that sort of thing.

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Judging motivation isnt something CRPGs are very good at. However there is nothing wrong with going with absolutes either. Judging the act not the motive works. If you help someone, then the very fact that you are helping them will push you along the LS scale. Likewise there is no "for the greater good" If you do something evil even if its in a good cause you still get DS points for it.

[Plano Skywalker]

Judging motivation isnt something CRPGs are very good at. However there is nothing wrong with going with absolutes either. Judging the act not the motive works. If you help someone, then the very fact that you are helping them will push you along the LS scale. Likewise there is no "for the greater good" If you do something evil even if its in a good cause you still get DS points for it.

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this was not intended to be a broadside or anything....however, I just think it would be good to have a more "granular" and sophisticated approach. This could involve giving the PC ways to tell his motivations to the system.

 

for instance:

 

"here, take this medpac"

[appear concerned] "here, take this medpac"

 

I think we can all agree that the first response, when let unqualified, is obviously LS and should get you LS points. The second answer is, IMO, neither LS nor DS but, rather, a "chaotic" answer....you are telling the system "look, I'm not doing this for altruistic reasons but I only want the system to know this".

 

but I can even see a "good guy" do this (a Republic spy, for instance). that is why I say that your faction affiliation will help determine what law and chaos is for you...it might be different for someone else. For instance, someone who is just a regular guy (i.e. assumed to be pro-Republic and honest) and someone who is a Sith would be acting chaotically in that example (and would get a chaotic shift on the appropriate barometer). however, the Republic spy would be acting "Lawfully" in that case (i.e. consistent with his training, etc).

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

this was not intended to be a broadside or anything....however, I just think it would be good to have a more "granular" and sophisticated approach.  This could involve giving the PC ways to tell his motivations to the system.

 

for instance:

 

"here, take this medpac"

[appear concerned] "here, take this medpac"

 

I think we can all agree that the first response, when let unqualified, is obviously LS and should get you LS points.  The second answer is, IMO, neither LS nor DS but, rather, a "chaotic" answer....you are telling the system "look, I'm not doing this for altruistic reasons but I only want the system to know this".

 

but I can even see a "good guy" do this (a Republic spy, for instance).  that is why I say that your faction affiliation will help determine what law and chaos is for you...it might be different for someone else.  For instance, someone who is just a regular guy (i.e. assumed to be pro-Republic and honest) and someone who is a Sith would be acting chaotically in that example (and would get a chaotic shift on the appropriate barometer).  however, the Republic spy would be acting "Lawfully" in that case (i.e. consistent with his training, etc).

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No doubts about that. However in most cases its nothing more than a gimmick added to one or two encounters. To make it a consistant change would increase the workload. Then in order to be fair, you would have to have some way to allow people to see through the duplicity (persuasion skills already in place) and then have a different reaction based on whether or not they fell for your line or not.

 

SW is more suited to the straghtforward approach anyway. The idea that doing evil even for a good cause will taint you. Although it seems remarkably easy to turn your back on the Darkside in KOTOR so the whole "forever will it dominate your destiny" shtik is nonsensical.

[Plano Skywalker]

SW is more suited to the straghtforward approach anyway. The idea that doing evil even for a good cause will taint you. Although it seems remarkably easy to turn your back on the Darkside in KOTOR so the whole "forever will it dominate your destiny" shtik is nonsensical.

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well, perhaps these particular changes would be best pioneered on a non-SW title. I guess it's just that K2, IMO, really was dialogue-heavy and introduced a pretty advanced Influence system. but the system is incomplete in so many ways (especially as it relates to alignment) and, hence, discussions like this.

 

I think we are going to see a trend in cRPGs to follow the alignment barometer thing (i.e. Jade Empire's Open Palm/Closed Fist thing)....but, ideally, we will have other indicators as well to help compartmentalize what is going on (and, yes, this increases the workload by alot, I agree).

 

I also like the idea of a "Reputation" indicator (as was used in Pirates!). But, anyway, first things first, as they say.