dewaybe2678 Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 i got thinking bout what bastila said in one. that jedi do not kill their prisoners. but they wipe their memory. in my opinion that would be the same thing. anyone feel differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor Qel Droma Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I'll take being manipulated and mindwiped over being murdered any day. But I get your point. It did seem like a mighty evil thing to do , doesn't it? I guess that is the great hypocrisy of the Jedi Council... Jaguars4ever is still alive. No word of a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 i got thinking bout what bastila said in one. that jedi do not kill their prisoners. Tell that to Mace Windu. ---- but they wipe their memory. in my opinion that would be the same thing. anyone feel differently? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And they've done worse than that - they've cut fellow Jedi off from the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewaybe2678 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 i got thinking bout what bastila said in one. that jedi do not kill their prisoners. Tell that to Mace Windu. why you say that? i haven't seen ep 1 or 2 in forever. ---- but they wipe their memory. in my opinion that would be the same thing. anyone feel differently? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And they've done worse than that - they've cut fellow Jedi off from the Force. true, but if i remember roight it was only one person Ulic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 why you say that? i haven't seen ep 1 or 2 in forever. It's not Ep I or II...but Ep III ---- true, but if i remember roight it was only one person Ulic. And attempted to do so on the Exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewaybe2678 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Arrgh...what have you done with the quotes! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OOPS SORRY MAN i wasasking why you say that about mindu? and if i remember they only cut ulic off from the force and wanted to do it to the exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Arrgh...what have you done with the quotes! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OOPS SORRY MAN i wasasking why you say that about mindu? and if i remember they only cut ulic off from the force and wanted to do it to the exile. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No probs my friend - merely see my above post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloris Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 They say that they don't kill their prisoners, but part of that bugs me: how do you define prisoner? Is someone your prisoner only when you declare them to be, or when you have the tactical upper hand (say, disarming someone)? Same thing with the Windu reference... When does someone stop being an opponent and start being a prisoner? Wow, maybe I should just get some sleep. Cloris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 These vaunted Jedi are nothing but a cult of terrorists! In Cestus Deception, they take hostages too...for the love of the Force man - hostages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewaybe2678 Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 These vaunted Jedi are nothing but a cult of terrorists! In Cestus Deception, they take hostages too...for the love of the Force man - hostages! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> so in some repect the jedi are no better then the sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 if its the lord of the sith - you kill him, geneva convention does not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oerwinde Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I'll take being manipulated and mindwiped over being murdered any day. But I get your point. It did seem like a mighty evil thing to do , doesn't it? I guess that is the great hypocrisy of the Jedi Council... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If they hadn't created a new personality, he would have just died. I'd be grateful. The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 This was my understanding, too. Revan's memory was lost in her near death experience battling with Bastila. Giving her a new identity was necessary for her own good. The morality issue is in the decision to choose an identity loyal to the Republic in order to serve the Jedi council, as opposed to one that was similar to Revan's original identity. Given the doubts and disagreements this caused on the Council, I can't imagine it's something that happens every day. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 This was my understanding, too. Revan's memory was lost in her his near death experience battling with Bastila. Giving her his a new identity was necessary for her his own good. The morality issue is in the decision to choose an identity loyal to the Republic in order to serve the Jedi council, as opposed to one that was similar to Revan's original identity. Given the doubts and disagreements this caused on the Council, I can't imagine it's something that happens every day. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Grammatical errors fixed. You should be thanking me Steve. " ---- if its the lord of the sith - you kill him, geneva convention does not apply. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is he not worthy of redemption then? For the day you would deny a man his chance to prove his innonence in court is the day you've lost my friend. If you prick us Sith do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveThaiBinh Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Grammatical errors fixed. You should be thanking me Steve. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you for imposing your version of the game upon me. In fact, why don't you just wipe my mind and imprint your fascist pronouns onto my very identity? I'm free this afternoon from four. "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Thank you for imposing your version of the game upon me. A pleasure. --- In fact, why don't you just wipe my mind and imprint your fascist pronouns onto my very identity? Don't mind if I do. --- I'm free this afternoon from four. Mustn't keep you waiting then. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Is he not worthy of redemption then? For the day you would deny a man his chance to prove his innonence in court is the day you've lost my friend. If you prick us Sith do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The thing with holding a hypothetical sith awaiting trial is what is to stop him from using his freaky mind powers to escape and kill his captors? If the sith is a former jedi then at least you could argue that he was once good - maybe he just lost his way and can be redeemed. I was using the example of palps who has only known the teachings of the sith and is sith through and through, someone so powerful is a walking weapon so he should be killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 They say that they don't kill their prisoners, but part of that bugs me: how do you define prisoner? Is someone your prisoner only when you declare them to be, or when you have the tactical upper hand (say, disarming someone)? Same thing with the Windu reference... When does someone stop being an opponent and start being a prisoner? Wow, maybe I should just get some sleep. Cloris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, if they are part of a recognised civilisation with a sanctioned government then they are prisoners once they are disarmed. Otherwise they are enemy combatants and not must be exterminated. " OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmi Skydrunkard Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 To me the issue isn't that they gave Revan a new identity and let him\her live, it is that they used him\her for their own goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 the goals were: to end the war and stop the sith, whats wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmi Skydrunkard Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 They lied, they manipulated and they brainwashed Rev to do their bidding. Rev was indoctrinated into their service. Personally I find it unethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Flatus Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 no... they redeemed revan in an unconventional manner. Not everything should be up for debate by the moral majority. In a time of war difficult decisions have to be made, the bottom line was that revan was the leader of the baddies so capturing him was a big bonus. They needed info from him so manipulating one person is fine especially when it saved the galaxy (LS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveilled Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 I think that in Revan's shoes, I'd have preferred death. They wiped away the old personality and put a new one in on top of it. To me, that's like killing someone and then creating a new person out of all the dead person's bits. More like murder and theft, you could say. If they put in a personality as close as possible to the original Revan that might not be so bad. Hawk! Eggplant! AWAKEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloris Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 no... they redeemed revan in an unconventional manner. Not everything should be up for debate by the moral majority. In a time of war difficult decisions have to be made, the bottom line was that revan was the leader of the baddies so capturing him was a big bonus. They needed info from him so manipulating one person is fine especially when it saved the galaxy (LS) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On the other hand, according to Kreia, all they did was return Revan's true personality, like some sortt of spiritual and mental restore disk... I rather liked that, the notion that no matter what (Jedi, Sith, Jedi mind-rape victim), Revan was never anything other than Revan. As we can well see in the present, let alone our science fiction, those that would give up their principles for victory are soon left with neither. I do not understand logic that states that "guardians of the peace" can remain so if they cannot uphold those principles in times of conflict. Back to the point, though, let's say that Malak and Kavar are dueling. If Malak drops his saber and stops fighting -- can Kavar, in good consious as a Jedi, kill Malak? Could Malak avoid death by conceeding and saying "I am your prisoner?" Cloris PS: I always set Reven up as female, is there some sort of problem with that, jaguars4ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hildegard Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 They lied, they manipulated and they brainwashed Rev to do their bidding. Rev was indoctrinated into their service. Personally I find it unethical. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SILENT ENIM LEGES INTER ARMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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