Why think KotORII sucked?

[Grone]

Okay, so I've been sweeping over forums ever since KotORII came out, primarily in Forgotten Wars and DLTC where KotOR isn't the primary discussion topic, but everywhere I go, people seems dissatisfied with KotORII.

 

Before I start, I'm a roleplayer. I assume that when people by a game like KotORII, which is a PCRPG, the utmost important thing is the roleplaying. In KotORI, this was moderate, in KotORII, it OWNED!

 

The story made you think, which KI's didn't, and the conversation you had with others was alot more intruiging.

 

Combat, graphics, stuff like that, it's really just sprincles in a PCRPG. The story, charachter development etc. Is what's important, and KotORII is indeed one of the best examples of well-made PCRPG's.

 

After reading review after review, I'm starting to think the critics agree with me on this.

 

I agree that there was bugs, I agree that the ending (or rather the lack of it) sucked, and I agree that it had tons of loose ends. Which is why it I would rank it with four stars instead of five, where I a critic.

 

But in a CRPG, it's the roleplaying that counts, and that was good. Who cares if there's a few blanks, a short ending and some bugs here and there, when the game takes you through charachter development and story as intruiging as it was in KotORII?

 

The blanks have to be filled out in KotORIII, I agree with you all on this, if it is to be a good game, but I still think Obsidian has done a very good job, it could have been SOOO much worse. And if we take a look at other SW productions, doesn't KotORII reach the top5? Indeed.

 

Okay, largest post ever written. I'll stop.

[stoo]

Avtually, playing the game for the third time after a few months' break, I have to admit that I'm beginning to appreciate the plot and dialogues and storyline and stuff (or, whatever is left of such elements). A good game, from this PoV. YET, there still are lots of things which should be fixed (which we all know and which I'm not going into right now) to make it a GREAT game.

[Oerwinde]

I think a lot of people think it sucked because it wasn't finished. What was finished was excellent, better than the first, but it was incomplete, which lead to a lot of people's disappointment.

[Baley]

This thread will probably be flamed to Oblivion :D

 

But I agree with Grunker :D

[MTJ]

This thread will probably be flamed to Oblivion :D

 

But I agree with Grunker :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's only time before he realizes that all of your party members have no converstations immo..

 

Zaalbar has more than every character when it comes to lines, besides Kreia. She's comparable to mission

[msp_77]

Before I start, I'm a roleplayer. I assume that when people by a game like KotORII, which is a PCRPG, the utmost important thing is the roleplaying. In KotORI, this was moderate, in KotORII, it OWNED!

 

The story made you think, which KI's didn't, and the conversation you had with others was alot more intruiging.

 

Combat, graphics, stuff like that, it's really just sprincles in a PCRPG. The story, charachter development etc. Is what's important, and KotORII is indeed one of the best examples of well-made PCRPG's.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMHO, the reason you see so many "KOTORII sucks" posts is that the game managed to upset just about every type of player in a small way:

 

1. people who care about graphics and combat didn't see anything that rocked their world

2. roleplayers got a much weaker story because of the cuts and the famous short ending

3. people who play for action and loot are upset about random items and easy to beat enemies

 

and bugs are driving everybody crazy. bad performance is something i expect on my sistem with any new game (blame my old ATI radeon integrated graphics), but people with good cards really shouldn't have to worry about frame rates and crashes.

 

so yeah, i - a roleplayer who doesn't care for graphics or loot, and enjoys the first part of the game - loved KOTORII, but i can see why other people didn't.

 

~ msp

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

the ending mostly.it needed more work.

[Kalfear]

I dont think KotOR2 sucked. Frankly I enjoyed it more then part 1 because the plot and storylines were not as appearent as part 1 was.

 

However, regarding the KotOR2 Sucked posts, I think thats because of a few things (some beyond Obsidians or anyones control).

 

1) No Revan. I prefer the exile, I find him to be far more an interesting character then Revan was, but fact remains people grew fond and attatched to Revan so his lack of presence was obviously going to rock the boat right from the get go.

 

2) Obsidian made rather then Bioware made. I personally think this is the "MAIN area of contention (even though very few will actually admit it) regarding KotOR2 sucks threads.

 

Bioware (and Blizzard) have a unique problem that im sure many other companies wished they had. They attract a almost fanatical crowd of fans who think they can do no wrong. Im not joking what so ever when I say, if Bioware put out the EXACT same product rather then Obsidian, the complaints would literally drop in half. Thats not to say there wasnt issues with the game (there was), just that Obsidian could have put out the most finished, greatest ever made, unbelievable RPG, and as long as Bioware remained the makers of KotOR1, Obsidian didnt stand a chance at a fair shake or treatment.

 

I was around here from the start of KotOR2, and the mass mass mass number of people that stated loudly and consistantly that KotOR2 would suck because its not Bioware making it (before it even went on sale) would make your head spin. Those folks had their minds made up long before the product ever hit the shelves.

 

3) Not enough changes in game. Obsidian needed to make enough changes to make people see this is their franchise now. KotOR2 (while the better game IMO) was still far to similar to KotOR1 that many players wouldnt give it it's proper due because they see it as a copy rather then a truely new game.

 

Obsidian could have done some things to change this by addressing the complaints from the first game. IE: Larger areas, more areas, ect ect ect. The biggest changes in KotOR2 from part 1 came in the party influence area. And while I think they were excelent changes, they were not enough of them to be able to distance themselves from comparison (which was going to happen regardless, but they still could have tried to minimize it more).

 

In the end, I honestly think that the mass majority of complaints come from a comparrison battle that Obsidian cant win at this point in time. The game had a few bugs sure (I myself encountered less bugs in part 2 then I did in part 1, neither game had game stopping bugs though) but those bugs were greatly exagerated and used to exploit weaknesses not really there.

 

The biggest draw back to KotOR2 (and the one that hurt them the most (of things they COULD have controled)) was the ending. It was a poor ending no matter how you look at it. People make assumptions it was LA rushing them (and it could very well have been but none of us know for sure) and all that, but in the end, Obsidian needed to have a far better ending to the game. Same ggoes for the cut content, it needed to be in game. These are things that were in Obsidians control and should have been dealt with.

 

In closing, I hope Obsidian is doing part 3, partly because I loved part 2 even more then part 1 (which is saying alot because I loved part 1 as well) but if its yet anouther new developer, the poor folks of who ever will not stand a chance in hell. No matter what quality the product is.

 

Anyways, thats my take on it Im sure more then a few wilkl object to what I just posted but there nothing what so ever I can do about that other then to say prove me wrong by actions rather then words. Right now the actions (IE: complaints and stuff) say otherwise.

 

PS: Question Grunker (not meant as a flame). You state your a role player. Im seeing this statement more and more on the web now aday for single player games.

 

What exactly do you do in game that makes you a roleplayer? See in a MMORPG roleplayers play a role and interact with others incharacter. In P&P you play a role and interact with other people incharacter.

 

In a single player RPG you DONT interact (which is the fundemental aspect of roleplaying) with other players because, well your alone! Hense why its called a single player game.

 

Sure you play a role, every single person that plays the game does, with in the paramenters of the game design. But to hear folks now adays, you dont consider every single person that plays game to be a roleplayer.

 

So my question is, what exactly do you do that makes you a role player rather then a player like everyone else in a single player game?

 

As I said, this not meant as a flame, im seriously wondering how you get the distinction.

 

Im an old MMORPG Role Player (back in oNWN on AOL in 1990). There I role played a drow by learning to speak the special language, writting stories, and trying to stay incharacter during impromptu conversations and situations while ingame. I played the role and interacted with others. So as a true Role Player from many years ago, the obviously new classification confuses me and Im just looking for someone to explain it to me please.

 

Thanks

[jaguars4ever]

K2 was by far the best incomplete game I've ever played. ^_^

[dufflover]

Okay, so I've been sweeping over forums ever since KotORII came out, primarily in Forgotten Wars and DLTC where KotOR isn't the primary discussion topic, but everywhere I go, people seems dissatisfied with KotORII.

 

I'm satisfied with it on a whole but wouldn't agree with the way it was handled/directed (storywise). Ofcourse you can rarely please everyone so I'm not mad or fustrated but I would be more suspicious of Obsidian games now cos of their style.

[edu11]

Grunker why do you prefer K2's scenario and not K1's? Did it have any twists? Was the exile an interesting character? I would vote 'no' to the above questions.

 

I think that the exile is a "mysterious" character but not interesting. You begin knowing nothing about him but you end up pretty much the same way. If just the fact that he is an abnormal force user (and thus he cut himself off from the force) satisfied you then we have different opinions. I expected something more than that.

Conclusion: K1 made me wanting for more. K2... didn't.

 

P.S. Did you play DS or LS? I played DS and maybe i missed a few dialogues.

[Darth Credulous]

'OWNING' is a relative thing. Try it with the patch, cooler movies/music, restoration project content and some rebalancing tweaks and compare and contrast your gaming experiences. Deal?

[Buck]

i enjoyed it an thought the game was tops

[Volourn]

"2) Obsidian made rather then Bioware made. I personally think this is the "MAIN area of contention (even though very few will actually admit it) regarding KotOR2 sucks threads.

 

Bioware (and Blizzard) have a unique problem that im sure many other companies wished they had. They attract a almost fanatical crowd of fans who think they can do no wrong. Im not joking what so ever when I say, if Bioware put out the EXACT same product rather then Obsidian, the complaints would literally drop in half. Thats not to say there wasnt issues with the game (there was), just that Obsidian could have put out the most finished, greatest ever made, unbelievable RPG, and as long as Bioware remained the makers of KotOR1, Obsidian didnt stand a chance at a fair shake or treatment.

 

I was around here from the start of KotOR2, and the mass mass mass number of people that stated loudly and consistantly that KotOR2 would suck because its not Bioware making it (before it even went on sale) would make your head spin. Those folks had their minds made up long before the product ever hit the shelves."

 

Proof please? All I see is generalizations. And, the reverse can be said to be true. Afterall, many people just "knew" that KOTOR2 would be better simply because BIO was making it. You forget that along with their army of fanboys that BIO has; they also have a rather large army of haters who bash them just because. It works both ways.

 

On top of that, I'm likely the biggest BIO fanboy out there, and I was saying pre release that KOTOR2 would be way better simply because I thoguht Obsidian would be wise enough to learn from what BIO did right and what they did wrong in the first game. Boy, I was wrong. Of course, I don't hate hate KOTOR2 as I'd rate it 80%, and the original 82%. Not much of a difference.

 

And, oh, KOTOR2 doesn't suck; but it sure is overrated. And, sure isn't mature.

 

One last thing: JE > KOTOR series! :D

[Baley]

Of course, I don't hate hate KOTOR2 as I'd rate it 80%, and the original 82%. Not much of a difference.

 

And, oh, KOTOR2 doesn't suck; but it sure is overrated. And, sure isn't mature.

 

One last thing: JE > KOTOR series! :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[fanboy]Blasphemy K2 owned the pile of crap that was K1 :D [/fanboy]

 

But seriously K1 was highly overrated...that;'s the truth :D

 

Um...of course it isn't mature it's bloody SW

[Volourn]

"Um...of course it isn't mature it's bloody SW"

 

Finally, you admit it!

[Baley]

Did I say it's mature ...perhaps I did I can't really remeber :">

Bout mature games:

Does anyone remember the famous brothel from Arcanum...and It's special staff member

[Ioini]

"But seriously K1 was highly overrated...that's the truth :D"

 

Thanks for the good laugh, I really needed that.

[Baley]

"But seriously K1 was highly overrated...that's the truth :D"

 

Thanks for the good laugh, I really needed that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you actually think that crap was any good...even the OC was more fun "

[Darth Kavar]

Well I think that most people don't think that K2 sucked. It's just that in some parts of the game you really get depressed.

 

It's just like watching a great movie and there comes suddenly a stupid moment which ruins almost everything.

 

Like how would you feel if in the Matrix II Neo and Smith fight, suddenly stop and in comes a giant pink bunny who kicks everyone's ass and leaves no one alive.

 

That's how I felt about K2.

[HK-47 MK II]

K2 was by far the best incomplete game I've ever played.  ^_^

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lionheart Legacy of the Crusader! How not to finish half a game:/

[azog]

IMHO, the reason you see so many "KOTORII sucks" posts is that the game managed to upset just about every type of player in a small way:

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You can pick any game out there and I'll find someone who says it sucks. Halo2 is the perfect example, got rave reviews from all over, but there are still some who think it sucks. Why? Because it really does or is it simply that people are fickle? That for any game, movie, book, song, it simply will NOT "do it" for some people. Why isn't this point brought up more often in these "(Insert name of game here) Sucks!!!" threads?

[azog]

And yes, I did see some people saying that Kotor 1 wasn't that great an RPG. I think they're idiots, but they said it. Just goes to show you...

[Baley]

K1 sucked donkey balls

 

You can't see that people have different opinions...I think K1 was Bio's worst RPG...mainly bacause it was boring and had a crap story...but that's just my opinion

[Kalfear]

Proof please? All I see is generalizations. And, the reverse can be said to be true. Afterall, many people just "knew" that KOTOR2 would be better simply because BIO was making it. You forget that along with their army of fanboys that BIO has; they also have a rather large army of haters who bash them just because. It works both ways.

 

Proof is in the forums Volo.

 

If you wanna wade through all those old posts be my guess

 

Im sure not going to at this point in time! LOL

 

 

On top of that, I'm likely the biggest BIO fanboy out there, and I was saying pre release that KOTOR2 would be way better simply because I thoguht Obsidian would be wise enough to learn from what BIO did right and what they did wrong in the first game. Boy, I was wrong. Of course, I don't hate hate KOTOR2 as I'd rate it 80%, and the original 82%. Not much of a difference.

 

LOL, did I say EVERY BW fanboi. Nope I didnt! Thus ends your statement.

 

And, oh, KOTOR2 doesn't suck; but it sure is overrated. And, sure isn't mature.

 

But its still more mature then K1 or JE