Was Revan the ultimate Sith Lord?

[Andkat]

I think the pre-force deafness Rakatans where the best since i know absolutley nothing about them other than that they ruled the galaxy utterlyy, and where uber-force-user. Perhaps the humans in SW will ever become utterly ignorant and immune to the forrce. It's already happening. kreia remarks that comapred to the old dark lords modern jedi would be "as children with toys" (this actually refers to lightsabers but you can infer that this also represents power). And that brings up another thought. Perhaps the Yuuzahn Vong (whom I know absolutley nothing about since I have'nt read the bookd concerning them, I juts know they aren't bound to the force) where once force-user who eventually lost it so utterlyt the force had no efefct on them. As for the uber dark lord from known times, I would say either Kreia, Nihilus or Sion.

Kreia: Could manipulate Malachor to destroy the force utterly, was a seer.

Nihilus: could annihilate entire planets by using only the force (that wimp Vader had to use a "Death Star") and could drain life anf force from everything.

Sion: COuld respawn indefinetly.

Thus, if Sidius defeated sion, he would keep popping back up until nothing was left of Sidius's forces, Nihilus would simply drain Sidius of life, Kreia could simply forsee the future (Kreia knw you would face and defeat her).

Also, don't call Darth Jedi SIth. The SIth where a primitive race in the unknwon regoins enslaved by those who fled from the intial sundering of the force. The trues with where weak enough to be conquered by outcasts.

Of course, my knowldege on anyhting other than Kottor times is sketchy, since I'm far too lazy to do extra research on the subject unless it REALLY interests me.

EDIT: My spelling is depressingly atrocious.

[The Yeti of 66]

Sion was defeated because he wasn't meant to continue to hold the force. He was killed by words overall. Sidious could use his words and likely kill Sion the first time.

 

Nihilus was defeated by *one* lie that made him weak, anybody could do that bit.

 

Kreia was an old woman who died to complete the training of a broken jedi that relies on others for power. She was the basic model of Revan however and was there to prepare the exile for their meeting and the Sith.

 

By the end of the game, Revan and the Exile would be formidable opponents for the old Sith Lords. From what I read of Sidious, he was like the god of the Sith during the Jedi Civil War and hunting the remaining Jedi. Then he slipped a bit, but still chilling.

 

Revan was cool because even when you find out that he is good no matter your side you take he (or she) still rocks.

 

To me, it seems that Revan is the ultimate Jedi. He just takes it a step further, power is chaos, but with restraint, power can preserve the greater good. Limiting your emotion (poorly I might add) is not worthwhile and restraint can create a power that even the Sith or the Jedi can not stop. Your power is never blind, and it is not lost.

 

As for the old Sith, notice they were defeated by the Jedi before lightsabers were invented a few times? That hardly makes me think that the old Sith were in any way superior.

 

That is all.

[Darth Coran]

Unless Sidious is even older than he lets on he wasn't in the jedi civil war.

[Jedihuh?]

I think he means clone war.

[The Yeti of 66]

Do you know how many Jedi Civil Wars there were? I don't know if it was still called the Clone War when Sidious declared himself galactic emperor and used Vader to hunt the remaining Jedi. During that time many dark jedi came forth and were used also as tools to kill of the Jedi, then they were also killed. That sounds like a Jedi Civil War to me.

 

If it was still the clone war then okay, but I think that was called Jedi Civil War far before even K1. There are three major ones I know of. The first one that created the Sith Lords, the one where Malak destroyed entire planets, and the last one where 1 Sith Lord and a few dark jedi as well as some uber clones and whatnot to destroy all the jedi.

 

Jedi Civil War, not just Kotor.

[Andkat]

Sion was only defeated because he was informed that Kreia betrayed him. repeadtly. I have no clue as to what you are talking about concerning Nihilus, but he could have just killed Coruscant, and that would have been the end of it. he was severely underpowered in K2. Kreia was physcotic enoigh to destroy the force. period.

[RevanRedefined]

I would consider the old sith lords were superior in terms of battle that is. Like Marka Ragnos and Exar Kun. If you remember on Korriban, Kreia explained that these sith lords were so well experienced with a light saber that the current sith lords and jedi masters would be considered as mere children playing with toys, to them. Now in ways of manipulation and the force, Kreia was indeed powerful. But she herself was corrupted. For someone to hate the force was just maniacle. I wouldn't even consider her a Sith Lord because, the Sith Lords themselves consider the force to be a powerful weapon, to help them gain victory. Now Revan's intentions were never fully clear. No one knows whether he fell to the darkside for his own ambitions or if he was trying to protect the entire galaxy from a greater evil, thus eventually venturing into unknown space. So, perhaps Sideous wins by default :D

[Jedihuh?]

Vader~the original baddie, in terms of our timeline not EUs

[The Yeti of 66]

Vader hardly seemed like a badass to me in Ep.4. He seemed like a dog being tugged by a stupid arrogant Moff.

 

After that, then yes, he was cool. But by then the Emperor was introduced, though we didn't know he was a Sith Lord I guess so you are right.

 

Please disregard all of the above.

[Andkat]

I believe the further back you go, the greater the power of the Dark Lords. Perhaps the ability of Humans (and galactic inhabitants in general) to wield the force is detierioating due to over-immersion (if you recall from K1, the Rakatans claimed that they where once powerful force users, but eventually their affinity for the force degraded until they could no longer utilize it).

[Darth Vader]

Vader hardly seemed like a badass to me in Ep.4. He seemed like a dog being tugged by a stupid arrogant Moff.

 

After that, then yes, he was cool. But by then the Emperor was introduced, though we didn't know he was a Sith Lord I guess so you are right.

 

Please disregard all of the above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vader rules

Apologise now..........or else

[Jedihuh?]

Vader hardly seemed like a badass to me in Ep.4. He seemed like a dog being tugged by a stupid arrogant Moff.

 

After that, then yes, he was cool. But by then the Emperor was introduced, though we didn't know he was a Sith Lord I guess so you are right.

 

Please disregard all of the above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol don't worrie I dissregarded all of the above befor I finnished readin the first sentance "

[master_revan]

Um...Revan was much more cunning. He killed off nearly all the jedi at one time and the council had no idea about this until he came full circle and attacked.

 

Sidious was discovered after only killing a few hundred jedi. The clone wars was a crappy cover and any idiot should have seen that he was the one responsible. The jedi of those times relied too much on the force instead of what was right in front of them. That and, Sidious had to hide, Revan was in the open, openly doing these things and still keeping his cover. He was cunning and tactical and was still able to fight for himself. Sidious was only smart, not strong, with the proper preparation, Anakin could have destroyed the "All powerful" dark lord. Revan was unequaled except for those who he trained. Anakin and Luke had no training from Sidious at all and could take him.

 

Or to put it into a summary.

Sidious = Dirty filthy shriveled pickle

Revan = Super cool badass who can rule all

 

Kreia was also great, she was right there, *right* there next to her enemies and was still not even suspected until she attacked the council. Of course *you* the player could see these signs that pointed her our, but the exile saw or suspected nothing.

 

Sidious and mainly Dooku exposed the Dark Lord right to them.

 

Besides, if the Emperor was so great at forseeing everything down to when he had to pee and same with those around him, why couldn't he see the oppurtunity he was giving Luke to turn Vader.

 

What's more powerful than turning an enemy to your cause? This was *his* tactic and he couldn't see it right there.

 

He was too reckless. Many others planned ahead and thought these things through instead of relying on how 'brilliant' they were and on their vaunted powers. That's why Kreia and Revan and the Exile were so wise. They learned to live without the force and could use their eyes and their power together without it making them arrogant.

 

So once again, sidious = turd

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

Revan was not cunning in his actions at all....the jedi council did not want to go to war against the mandelorians because they wanted to see the true threat..they new the threat was there, and revan defied them and went off to war, that was an act of rebelion and they linked it to the darkside, even tho revan was fighting as a jedi, I'm sure they expected the worse, and then they knew after the war was won Revan had turned to the Darkside and so had the Exile, so they called that one....

 

and then Revan got betrayed by Malak very shortly into his new war against the Republic, Malak was more cunning in that sense because he caught Revan off guard....but....Revan was a better Sith Lord than malak and wasn't a brute and WAS intelligent...but not super cunning, just a good war leader....

 

now about Sidious...how can you even talk about him like that?

 

Vader would have killed Sidious, or Revan, for he was the chosen one...

 

It was either Anakin would have stayed the course as a lightsider and got powerful enough to defeat Sidious...but Sidious' war changed that, and turned anakin to Vader, so his true power was not achieved, but he was still the chosen one, so it took his son to turn him back to the lightside thru almost dying to defeat his master, the emperor, and die in the process....

 

Which means Sidious was just killed by his apprentice which is the way of the Sith, he was so old his time had come and you can't defeat the prophecy....

 

 

But Sidious's rise to power was the most cunning and secretive rise to power in the Star Wars universe...

 

He tricked all of the jedi and republic political leaders into war with the seperatist armies, who he created by the turning of a fallen jedi....every single piece fell into place for him...why wage a war against your enemies when you can have them fight eachother....

 

Sidious had many powerful apprentices that contributed to the Rise of the Empire in many different ways....Revan had one apprentice who was a dumbass and almost destroyed the entire republic, which revan only turned against to save right? well he didnt teach his apprentice very well eh?

 

And Sidious was much more powerful, defeating Yoda, staging a loss to Mace Windu, even tho he could beat him, only to let anakin kill mace, to turn anakin fully to the darkside, and so on and so on....

 

If you try to say Revan was more cunning than Sidious you are wrong....big time....

 

Revan-Greatest Sith Lord of that time era.....

 

 

Sidious-Greatest Sith Lord of all time

 

period

 

 

EDIT: And Sith Lords may or may not forsee their apprentice betraying them, but it's the fact that they are too blinded by their power in the darkside and they underestimate their apprentices-well those are the ones who get killed, at least lol....

 

And how did Sidious screw up the prequels???? No characters in the prequels have been forward in time and knew Senetar Palpatine would become the evil Sith Lord Emperor Palpatine...

 

The Prequels were to show how the events of the Original Star Wars trilogy unfolded...basically explaining the story and introducing u into the characters origins....not to come up with some new and original story line....it's not supposed to be a surprise who Sidious is except to the characters in the STORY! just like many many plays and irony in them and etc.

 

What do u expect these movies to be, a new story?

 

damn....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

wat are you an idiot reven left special military instalments in for a reason malak destoyed planets and hid behind darth bendon and sidious geez the old gezzer hid behind darth vader and sidious would sit on his throne with wat luke and darth vader fighting in front of him and so many people could of taken him out hes stupid reven has power i dont think any one could take reven out in is prime besides in my book hes the BEST jedi and sith

[Guest MacleodCorp]

Was Revan the ultimate Sith Lord?

Nope! Vader from Episode IV, V, and VI, for he controlled the ultimate weapon, which puts the Star Forge to shame: The Deathstar. Not to mention he hired bounty hunters, faught Zixor, hired the huts, and took steps darker than Revan to seek power. Despite Episode I, II, and III, Vader's story is a very dark and powerful one. Vader had people killed off before they became too much of a threat. At one point, Vader was ready to kill his own child. Revan never had to face this.

 

Vader did kill Sidious, but under the name 'The Emporer'. Same villan different name. Sidious was a genius, for he hired his greatest threat, for he knew he could not beat Anihkan. Sidious took advantage of a weak Anihkan, and turned him, so he would not have to face him. Vader fights his enemies head on.

 

Nihlus's story would have been a great one, but the writters made him too weak.

[Dark Moth]

Revan was a badass and probably the most powerful of his time, (except maybe Nihilus, but that's a different story), but not the ultimate Sith Lord of all time. I mean, Vader was born through the force, and Sidious took over the Republic without even waging war against them. And Revan would have died if it weren't for Bastila. Also, I think K2 kind of 'deified' Revan to the extant he just seemed unhuman, not like he really was.

 

As for Nihilus, he was probably more powerful, but his weakness was his hunger, and that became his downfall because he could not 'feed' off the exile.

 

And just out of curiosity, Master Revan, but why would you respond like that to a statement that was posted months ago?

Edited August 4, 2005 by Mothman

[Krookie]

wat are you an idiot reven left special military instalments in for a reason malak destoyed planets and hid behind darth bendon and sidious geez the old gezzer hid behind darth vader and sidious would sit on his throne with wat luke and darth vader fighting in front of him and so many people could of taken him out hes stupid reven has power i dont think any one could take reven out in is prime besides in my book hes the BEST jedi and sith

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First of all, don't call him an idiot when your the one talking like a monkey with a keyboard. Second, it's his opinion let him have it. <_<

 

Reven was one of the greatest Jedi, but not Sith Lord. Mainly he was known for being one of the greatest tactitions.

[Calax]

Was Revan the ultimate Sith Lord?

Nope! Vader from Episode IV, V, and VI, for he controlled the ultimate weapon, which puts the Star Forge to shame: The Deathstar. Not to mention he hired bounty hunters, faught Xizor, hired the hutts, and took steps darker than Revan to seek power. Despite Episode I, II, and III, Vader's story is a very dark and powerful one. Vader had people killed off before they became too much of a threat. At one point, Vader was ready to kill his own child. Revan never had to face this.

 

Vader did kill Sidious, but under the name 'The Emporer'. Same villan different name. Sidious was a genius, for he hired his greatest threat, for he knew he could not beat Anakin. Sidious took advantage of a weak Anakin, and turned him, so he would not have to face him. Vader fights his enemies head on.

 

Nihilus's story would have been a great one, but the writters made him too weak.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all I'm going to have to ask you to learn how to spell the proper nouns.

Then I'm going to say that beating Xizor is not a big thing, He's a crime lord and the only reason he survived for so long with the black sun was because he didn't make any blatent moves against Vader, As soon as he did Vader wiped him out. Hiring bounty hunters is no great feat. All you need is some cash. Hutts don't really work for anybody so if you can prove that Vader hired a hutt I'm going to be very very scared.

 

I'm not in Revan's camp either for the knowlege of the masses. I'm a Ulic Qel-Droma fan. This is a guy who conquered the Mandalorians, was willing to kill sombody who would have been his wife, brought the Republic to its knees while Exar was working on the Jedi Order, and killed his brother. While Exar Kun had more power (not much in my estimation, He seemed more like Maul and Sidious put together) Qel-Droma was what made the War into a winning one.

[DeathScepter]

Vader in the OT is a badass.

 

 

Sidious of the PT/OT is a badass.

 

 

Without Either of them, there will be no Revans or Qel-Domas

[EnderAndrew]

Revan also got chumped by the Jedi order, don't forget that. He also couldn't deal with attachment in the end and shoved people away for no good reason.

 

Revan wasn't the manipulator that Palpatine was, nor did he have the power that Exar Kun did.

[alanschu]

But he has the fanbois because Revan is "their" character.

[Master_Vrook]

"Are kidding me? Revan was a man!"

 

"I was led to believe Revan led the Republic to victory."

[CoM_Solaufein]

Revan had charisma and the power to sway Jedi to his/her side.

[Unabomber]

Vader, prior to getting de-limbed by Kenobi, would have easily been the most powerful Sith Lord. According to George Lucas (yes, I know many don't like him, but...), before the de-limbing, Vader was potentially twice as powerful as Sidious.

 

Even after the incident, Vader was still pretty close to Sidious (80% as powerful) in terms of sheer power.

[Calax]

How do you measure a jedi's power? is it will? Angryness? Happy fluffy dolls he keeps in his room?

[germi91]

It pretty much depends. There were many Sith Lords who were evil and cruelly manipulated people, murdered thousands, etc.

 

Revan was simply another Sith Lord in the Star Wars universe. You can't say he was the ultimate Sith Lord because he wasn't as cruel or merciless as many other ones. In fact, like Kreia said, he never truly fell. I wouldn't consider him a Sith Lord, more like a... secret agent.... sort of, trying to prepare the republic for some kind of threat.

 

For example, i think Kreia was a better Sith Lord than Revan or, like some people said, Vader was better at killing and torturing than Revan. He never became 'evil' since he always had one goal in mind. Another thing Kreia said was that Revan became a Sith Lord accidentally. And when he did, he didn't behave like a true Sith Lord would.

 

What i can admit is that he was very clever and always stayed true to his primary goal, even if he had to be a Sith Lord. I would even say that, somehow, he always was a Jedi who simply had to risk falling to the Dark Side, in order to protect the Republic. The fact that he did this makes him a petty Sith Lord. However, it makes him a brave and noble person.

 

... And i'm not a Revan fanboy... just so you know. There are far more better characters than Revan.