Bioware > Obsidian

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No, it doesn't. PST requires you to think. KOTOR2 doesn't. If yout hink in KOTOR2 all you gonna do is realize the game is, while decently fun after Peragus, is a hack game. Too much effort was put in to rip off of PST, and not enough effort was to pull it off successfully.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why does PST require you to think and KOTOR II not.

[Sneaky Smurf]

Infinity Engine Games>you.

 

and while im at it

 

Viconia>Bastila+Visas+Mira+Handmaiden

[mastah vandah]

ok, your reply with a quote from me had nothing to do with a point that i tried to make so that was your first mistake.

 

This doesn't make any sense. Your post contained spoilers, which I do not care to read in a NO SPOILERS forum. So don't do it. Is that easy enough for you to grasp? NO SPOILER FORUM = NO SPOILERS.

 

your second mistake was that you failed to realize we are discussing STORYTELLING and whether they did a good job with it or not, thus it makes it obvious there are possibilities of spoilers being written in this thread...

 

What you failed to realize is that you are not the one who decides when and where the rules apply. Therefore, post spoilers in a spoilers forum, if you are incapable of discussing writing ability without spoliers.

 

but then again...once you werent really bright enough to find that out for yourself

 

Ooh, ooh, please don't insult my intelligence, please! It might destroy my self-esteem. Are you bright enough to figure out this simple equation?

 

THIS FORUM = NO SPOILERS

 

Do this:

 

Turn off you computer

GROW UP

Don't  ever bother me again

 

Heres a better list, for you.

 

Read the rules again.

Realise that growing up does not involve letting other people wantonly break rules.

Don't post spoilers in this forum again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ok child..your stupidity annoys me..what part of "don't bother me again" don't you understand?

[mastah vandah]

"It's EASY for you to say all these things after you have played the game. Let me leave it at that."

 

It was easy for me to say it even while playing the game. Very easy. I'll leave it at THAT.

 

 

Ok, you know..just drop it... wont argue about this like crazy anymore because it's a waste of my time. My opinion is already writen, that's what forums are for, you have the right to disagree.

You knew everything about the plot, fine...we will all move on

[Volourn]

"everything"

 

Don't make things up.

 

 

"Why does PST require you to think and KOTOR II not."

 

To those who cna think this is obvious. Besides, I know you ar eno fan of PST so I'm not gonna try to "prove" anything about it to you.

[JediExile]

Not sure what it was, but I played through the original around 6 times and enjoyed all of them. I liked the story for this game and the characters, but felt little desire to replay the game. I've tried a few times, but I feel very little reason to continue playing after while. I generally have more faith in Bioware due to the fact they made the Baldur's gate and Baldur's gate 2 series which is the best RPG I've played IMO and as far as I know obsidian made Icewind Dale which I didn't like much due to the lack of characters and story. Both games are good enough for at least one playthrough though.

[Nur Ab Sal]

OBsidian's Fallout beats even venerable Baldur.

[JediExile]

I liked fallout a lot, but it doesn't hold a candle to BG IMO. Especially the second one I can't get into at all and I've tried many times. For one thing turn based combat in that game is so slow and boring at times. The story is good, but not nearly as deep as BGs. The best part of any MMORPG are the NPCs that you bring into your party and nothing beats BG in that department.

[Nartwak]

The best part of any MMORPG are the NPCs that you bring into your party and nothing beats BG in that department.

MMORPG?

[Nur Ab Sal]

I liked fallout a lot, but it doesn't hold a candle to BG IMO.  Especially the second one I can't get into at all and I've tried many times.  For one thing turn based combat in that game is so slow and boring at times.  The story is good, but not nearly as deep as BGs.  The best part of any MMORPG are the NPCs that you bring into your party and nothing beats BG in that department.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Khalid is great. "Sniff. Click someone your own size!"

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

To those who cna think this is obvious. Besides, I know you ar eno fan of PST so I'm not gonna try to "prove" anything about it to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats so unlike you :D

 

Anyway your wrong. The influence system requires thought. Unless you use a walkthrough if you want to get the most out of it you need to think about the personalities of the characters you want to influence and use them in appropriate situations.

[JediExile]

Sorry I meant RPG, but somehow MMORPG came out. Guess I have been playing WoW to much.

[nuanil]

If lucasarts had given Obsidian the proper amount of time to do this, we wouldn't be having this discussion. 12 months isn't enough time to get a game together and polished, even if you do reuse an engine. If LA had allowed Obsidian to wait until Q2 2005 or Q4 2005 I'm sure it would have been the polished game everyone was expecting.

[Nur Ab Sal]

Agreed but why LA prohibits Obsidian from publishing a cut content?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If lucasarts had given Obsidian the proper amount of time to do this, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  12 months isn't enough time to get a game together and polished, even if you do reuse an engine.  If LA had allowed Obsidian to wait until Q2 2005 or Q4 2005 I'm sure it would have been the polished game everyone was expecting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It might have been but you would have to be less ambitious about it. I think with lessons learned Obsidian could do it differently in the same time period. But it's really all the parts that you have to coordinate that will cause the trouble.

 

LA have lot on their plate this year so perhaps not the best time to be working for them.

[Volourn]

"OBsidian's Fallout beats even venerable Baldur."

 

That's funny. Obsidian didn't create FO. I believe there are maybe 3-4 (max of 6) Obsidian guys who helped create FO. Heck, former BISers are only 1/3 of the entire company so please don't give them credit for soemthing they didn't do. Don't pull Troika fnaboys - we know where such fanboyism got them. LOL

 

 

"The influence system requires thought."

 

Huh? I didn't think at all when it came to infleuncing. It was pretty obvious how one would infleunce another. You might as well have NEON signs on it.

 

 

"12 months isn't enough time to get a game together and polished, even if you do reuse an engine."

 

False. it's done often, and done well. EA makes milions by doing just that.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Huh? I didn't think at all when it came to infleuncing.

 

False. it's done often, and done well. EA makes milions by doing just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well that explains a thing or two...

 

True, what would we do without our yearly fifa update

[Volourn]

"Well that explains a thing or two..."

 

That you don't need to. I still got all the important stuff I needed. I had HOT passion sex with Handmaiden, slapper the hell out of the Old Crone, and farted in Old Pilot Deluxe's face.

 

All the influence I need.

[Judge Hades]

EA treats their employees like children in a Kathy Lee's sweat shop. One of many reasons why I don't buy games from EA.

[Meshugger]

Agreed but why LA prohibits Obsidian from publishing a cut content?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it was at post-release interview on Gamespot where Mike Gallo said something in the vein of "Several projects have material that never made the final cut, the same thing happens in the movie-industry. Sith Lords wasn't an exception"

 

Basically, Lucasarts thinks that Sith lords is good as it is, no matter how much the community cries and b*tches about it. And add to that, Chris himself asked permission to do the cut content.

 

KotOR II is done and fine as it is in their eyes.

[Judge Hades]

And that is why I will not be buying future LA games.

[nuanil]

"12 months isn't enough time to get a game together and polished, even if you do reuse an engine."

 

False. it's done often, and done well. EA makes milions by doing just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well I'm not that familiar with EA's sport's series (aside from playing Tiger Woods Golf occasionally). But I'd bet their development model involves more of a continuous cycle of constantly refining and upgrading their existing engine and content, and their programmers are intimitely knowledgable with their code, which helps streamline the process. Almost like they have 12 months to deliver a patch to their previous game, upgrading it's functionality, removing some that didn't work well/work right, and altering the player and team lists.

 

It's quite concieveable that they are doing the engine work for Madden 2007 right now, and will get the player lists and models finalized near the end of 2006. And that they've completed the engine work on 2006 now and are in the process of finishing the player animations etc now ready for release.

 

-edit-

P.S. I did intend to imply that I meant in depth games like RPG's. Sports games don't have a whole lot of depth in concept or variety when compared to an RPG. Content goes beyond itemizing your character(s) and putting the soccer ball in the net or the golf ball in the hole.

[Plano Skywalker]

KOTOR II requires you to think. KOTOR I is best played with your brain switched off because if you do think you will see right through it long before the game decides to tell you about it. It was the whole having to play along thing that I hated most about it , aside from the cheese of Malak. It was clear you were being played but you couldnt confront Bastila about it, or even return to Dantooine and demand an explanation. Thats Biowares greatest failingas writers. They put in these twists and then make them completely obvious by putting in tons of clues. Like the letters in NwN. Or what about the bless spell which is obviously not bless, yet the character dosnt get an option to act on that evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think the Holy Grail for KOTOR III would be a simplistic story like in the first KOTOR but with the kind of enigmatic presentation of the second KOTOR.

 

Also, SUBPLOTS are important. I thought the Calo Nord subplot worked wonders for the first KOTOR. There were waylay attempts in KOTOR II but I think the idea that the same rival keeps appearing is classic and is something we should see again.

 

Anyway, I believe that Obsidian would be the best choice (if, in fact, they even want it).

 

Plano

[Plano Skywalker]

Agreed but why LA prohibits Obsidian from publishing a cut content?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it was at post-release interview on Gamespot where Mike Gallo said something in the vein of "Several projects have material that never made the final cut, the same thing happens in the movie-industry. Sith Lords wasn't an exception"

 

Basically, Lucasarts thinks that Sith lords is good as it is, no matter how much the community cries and b*tches about it. And add to that, Chris himself asked permission to do the cut content.

 

KotOR II is done and fine as it is in their eyes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wonder if this was even supposed to be a trilogy. When KOTOR I came out (for the Xbox of all things), LA was in uncharted waters and I doubt they thought people would become so attached to the Revan character.

 

Then, the guys in the accounting office wanted them to do another KOTOR because it was obviously a cash cow. They contacted Obsidian because, among other things, they knew they could strongarm their way around the project with such a new company.

 

At some point, they decided to make KOTOR II more like the ESB with a cliffhanger ending but they then had to come up with a new antogonist (someone who was the true threat all along). Enter,

THE TRUE SITH

.

 

Now, they have to go in that direction because KOTOR II falls apart if they don't. Adding a special release with cut content would have all kinds of PR and continuity implications, because I don't think we would even be talking about

Revan in the Unknown Regions

right now had they made the story the way it was originally envisioned.

 

This is all conjecture, of course.

[FaramirK]

ok, your reply with a quote from me had nothing to do with a point that i tried to make so that was your first mistake.

 

This doesn't make any sense. Your post contained spoilers, which I do not care to read in a NO SPOILERS forum. So don't do it. Is that easy enough for you to grasp? NO SPOILER FORUM = NO SPOILERS.

 

your second mistake was that you failed to realize we are discussing STORYTELLING and whether they did a good job with it or not, thus it makes it obvious there are possibilities of spoilers being written in this thread...

 

What you failed to realize is that you are not the one who decides when and where the rules apply. Therefore, post spoilers in a spoilers forum, if you are incapable of discussing writing ability without spoliers.

 

but then again...once you werent really bright enough to find that out for yourself

 

Ooh, ooh, please don't insult my intelligence, please! It might destroy my self-esteem. Are you bright enough to figure out this simple equation?

 

THIS FORUM = NO SPOILERS

 

Do this:

 

Turn off you computer

GROW UP

Don't  ever bother me again

 

Heres a better list, for you.

 

Read the rules again.

Realise that growing up does not involve letting other people wantonly break rules.

Don't post spoilers in this forum again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ok child..your stupidity annoys me..what part of "don't bother me again" don't you understand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow! I haven't been called a child in over a decade! Really brings back memories.

 

What part of no spoilers don't you understand? Do you always respond with illogical insults when your mistakes are addressed?

 

Points to ponder, my heated friend.

 

Look, maybe Hell-fiend was too much, but it was sarcasm, and you did break the rules. Lets just move on. The Moderators obviously agree with me, as they moved the thread. I won't be posting you again.