Infinity Engine Games

[Cybersquirt]

You probably won't seen anymore IE games.  It's unfortunate in many ways, because I do think there is a hole left by them.  I really enjoyed the strategic play, which is one of the reasons I got Interplay to sign up the original BG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The hole left by them is evidenced by the mods that are still being made for them.

[Volourn]

"The hole left by them is evidenced by the mods that are still being made for them."

 

And, the 100 people or so who still play them.

 

R00fles!

[Cybersquirt]

(Think you found new fodder in me, Volourn? Now I know you're a troll)

 

Might even be One-hundred and one. What, exactly, is your point?

 

Do you really think a new game wouldn't sell just because it's built around the IE engine?

[Volourn]

"Do you really think a new game wouldn't sell just because it's built around the IE engine?"

 

It would sell; but nowhere near the amount of copies IE games did when the engine was in its prime.

 

 

"(Think you found new fodder in me, Volourn? Now I know you're a troll)"

 

Now, now. Don't make this personal. I don't even know who you are. I was simply pointing out that you fact that because people ar estill making/playing IE mods that somehow the engine is still considered first class or even still popular. That simply isn't the case. if you wanna call that trolling, go ahead; but it isn't. Just a differing opinion than yours. You cna handle differing opinions, right?

[Camael]

I think an engine like the "Silent Storm" engine would be ideal for an infinity style game that could offer the kind of strategic party based gameplay you had with the infinity games, and still give you the ability to show publishers some snazzy 3D super cool effects when needed.

[Sermon]

"The hole left by them is evidenced by the mods that are still being made for them."

 

And, the 100 people or so who still play them.

 

R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, good to see some familiar faces again!

 

Anyway, more people could still be playing these mods than you think. It could be a hundred people, it could be hundreds of people and it could be thousands of people who still play these mods. It could be even more people than that who are constantly replaying PS:T, the BG- and the IWD-games, people who are just waiting for new games like these to be made. We don't know and you don't know Volourn. Unless you've got some numbers to back up a statement like that, which I doubt.

[Volourn]

True, no hard numbers, but it just takles a bit to figure out - just look at the number of people who post regularly here. Even on the BIO boards in spite of their millions of members, only a relatively small number actually posts. I'm sure my "100" estimate could very be low as I was just being exaggertaive to point out the fallacy that just because people are still playing IE mods that it would somehow mean the IE is still popular; let alone popular enough to be amrketabll in 2005 or beyond.

 

Would I buy a new IE engine game? Sure; but I'm one of those hardcore goofs who'd buy anything that has RPG or D&D on it pretty much. LOL Most people won't. If they did; I'm sure BIo would still be using the IE.

 

And, oh, hi Sermon.

[Tsel]

I

[Serious Callers Only]

There are various projects kick around tring to reverse -enginner the infinity engine, trying to make a multi-platform clone and eventually an platform for new games. Just search source-forge with Infinity.

 

 

As for the old 2d versus 3d debate thats a pretty moot point since a versatile 3d engine can still to "2d" scenes. The main question is of making content. 2d scenarios require less specialized knowledge than 3d, but 3d allows less work-intensive animation (in average). Just has there are more "rediscovered" tech like dynamic content generation using algorithms that are still more specialized, and so don't normally get used despite obvious advantages (and disadvantages).

[Phosphor]

We do kick the idea around here every once in a while about making a game like those that were made with the IE, but we are pretty sure we would have to fund it ourselves if we did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd buy it.

You could even do it as a part-time project and release it as a direct download purchased from the main site and skip marketplace distribution and publishers all together. Don't worry about a license, a homebrew gameworld would be great.

I always liked the IE, and particularly it's incarnation in IWD2.

[Nightblade]

You probably won't seen anymore IE games.  It's unfortunate in many ways, because I do think there is a hole left by them.  I really enjoyed the strategic play, which is one of the reasons I got Interplay to sign up the original BG.

 

The problem is that the game style is pretty much PC only and the engine is 2D.  Both of those things together would pretty much get you laughed out of any publisher's conference room if you pitched that kind of game to them.

 

We do kick the idea around here every once in a while about making a game like those that were made with the IE, but we are pretty sure we would have to fund it ourselves if we did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What happened to the mystary engine? You guys have the skills and the resources to "re-create" that engine. Why not build a new one just like it, or better, and call it something else? Or is that illegal?

Then you'll have a top-angle-view IE-like engine, which is 3D as well. I can't say whether or not a sword & sorcery-game with an engine like that would be a best-seller. All I know is that I would buy 3 copies myself. :cool:

 

N.

[GhostofAnakin]

I'd buy it.

You could even do it as a part-time project and release it as a direct download purchased from the main site and skip marketplace distribution and publishers all together. Don't worry about a license, a homebrew gameworld would be great.

I always liked the IE, and particularly it's incarnation in IWD2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Like I commented, I wonder how much this project would actually cost to make it a viable option.

 

I'm sure there are quite a few people who would be willing to pay some kind of price to purchase this, but enough to make it a worthwhile venture?

 

But sign me up for one of the first to buy if Obsidian ever decides to take on this "pet project".

[Cybersquirt]

You cna handle differing opinions, right?

 

I can handle differing opinions but that's not what you posted. Perhaps before posting a snide comment, consider that someone might take offense or see it as an 'attack'. Then you won't have to backpeddle and make it an actual opinion.

 

Enough of that. On the actual topic:

 

I never said that the engine was first-class, nor did I (mean to) imply it, but then I really think it all depends on what you want your game to do and what you think a "real RPG" should be. (3D graphics are low on my list of things that I want when I think RPG. 3D is #1 when I think FPS.) I was speaking more to the type of game Baldurs Gate was - or, of course, PS:T. There's nothing around now like those games, imo; there's a hole.

 

As far as "proof" of people still playing modded BG, download stats of the different mods will give you an indication. Kelsey, one of the oldest and most popular NPC mods for BG2, had 8000+ downloads at one sight alone. Make of that what you will.

 

It was more than the engine that made those games good (although KotOR's AI drives me inSANE). Another disturbing trend, imo - "rpgs" seem unbalanced in that there are more battles and less meaningful dialogue. Were BG and PS:T flukes of the rpg world? Eh. That's another topic.

 

Any games initial popularity is usually determined by the game's marketing and it's Developer, is it not?

[Feargus Urquhart]

Is there really no market for (IE) games like these anymore?

 

It's not so much that there is no market, it's just a market that many publishers don't understand and there is a stigma about making PC only games right now. I've seen this happen a lot in the industry over the past 10 years. People were more interested in buying a crappy CD-ROM game than a floppy game, a poor looking 3D game compared to a 2D game, a boring real-time game compared to an engaging turn-based game, etc...

 

Unfortunately publishers like to fund what is currently fashionable because they see that as safe.

 

That's why I said we would probably have to fund a game like ourselves. I think there is a market, but I don't have the $2M it would take to make the game.

[Mad_Scientist]

Is there really no market for (IE) games like these anymore?

 

It's not so much that there is no market, it's just a market that many publishers don't understand and there is a stigma about making PC only games right now. I've seen this happen a lot in the industry over the past 10 years. People were more interested in buying a crappy CD-ROM game than a floppy game, a poor looking 3D game compared to a 2D game, a boring real-time game compared to an engaging turn-based game, etc...

 

Unfortunately publishers like to fund what is currently fashionable because they see that as safe.

 

That's why I said we would probably have to fund a game like ourselves. I think there is a market, but I don't have the $2M it would take to make the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That reminds me of a recent rant I read that was part of the GDC. I don't remember it exactly right now, but it involved funding for games, and the issues that arise when there is only one real method of funding game development. (Publishers)

[Camael]

Is there really no market for (IE) games like these anymore?

 

It's not so much that there is no market, it's just a market that many publishers don't understand and there is a stigma about making PC only games right now. I've seen this happen a lot in the industry over the past 10 years. People were more interested in buying a crappy CD-ROM game than a floppy game, a poor looking 3D game compared to a 2D game, a boring real-time game compared to an engaging turn-based game, etc...

 

Unfortunately publishers like to fund what is currently fashionable because they see that as safe.

 

That's why I said we would probably have to fund a game like ourselves. I think there is a market, but I don't have the $2M it would take to make the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aren't there venture capital and investment capital groups that you could try to secure funding from? 2 million isn't really all that much relative to the amount of venture capital requested to fund many new business projects. My shiftless brother-in-law secured well over a million dollars in investment capital for a company he started for some doomed, half-assed, web-based service something-or-other that anyone with opposable thumbs would have laughed at, yet he was able to get his business funded. I bet you could put together one hell of a slick proposal

[Judge Hades]

I agree it would be worth it, but I do think that the Infinity Engine had its day. Sure the game will sell to the hardcore gamers, but I think that if they could use that money to make an Infinity Engine like game that is fully 3D and turn base. I think that type of game would sell more than another regular IE game.

[Drakron]

...

Unfortunately publishers like to fund what is currently fashionable because they see that as safe.

...

 

Leading to flooding the market with similar games, usually of substandart quality.

 

Then the players get feed up with it and jump into something new that then becames "fashionable" leading to a endless circle.

 

I dont know about publishers ... Komani invested in the Silent Hill brand that is a shadow to BioHazard (Resident Evil) series in japan and I dont think it sold that much to be allowed to be make into a series but then again they got scared over The Room and slap Silent Hill over it to sell it.

 

Still getting someone to invest in a IE style RPG would not be easy, perhaps when RPGs became the latest fad they are more willing to go that way.

[Cybersquirt]

But why, Hades? Just because it's 3D? I'm forced to accept the PC-only argument - that's a biggie; the trend is undeniable, even if it seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But the $2M has to include the rights to the IE. Since it's 'done' it should be quite cheap, leaving lots of money for good writing.

 

Wouldn't that be an actual plus? Then there's not having to develop (and troubleshoot) a new engine. And there's no shortage of people who know how to use it. And.. other considerations, I'm sure.

 

What are it's limitations? Really. Do you need 3D, above all else? You can make some great looking tilesets. The characters would still be ..small, but think of the money saved in animations alone.

Edited March 25, 2005 by Cybersquirt

[Nightblade]

that money to make an Infinity Engine like game that is fully 3D and turn base.  I think that type of game would sell more than another regular IE game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aren't you the guy who gave NWN 96% even though you didn't like it? And you justified this by saying something like: Most people would probably like it, so I'll have to give it a high score.. (!?) Now you're saying that a turn-based 3D engine would sell more. I suppose you would have to give a game like that 96% too eh? Not because you'd like it, but because that's what most people would probably like? rofl.. Critics are all the same, whether is movie/theatre/book/games- critics. Don't listen to any of them.

 

Re-create the mystary engine, 3D, better and more realistic looking avatars, RT with pause and a great story. That's what the old BG-fans would like, and that's what would sell. Not some turn-based ToEE clone. Yuch!

 

N.

[Judge Hades]

I gave NWN a 75%. A grade of C.

 

I have given no game a 96%. Ever.

 

I am saying that a 3D engine would allow more features and greater range of animation. Also A fully #D environment would cater to the newer gamers. If a game is going to make any sort of money it needs to cater more to than the Hardcore crowd. It should have solid hardcore elements such as Turn Base combat, strategic and hard battles, but also look pretty doing it.

 

Also in a fully 3D environment with a Radial menu system similar to Troika's ToEE the game GUI can be usuable to the Console as well as the PC. Double the market means potential double the earnings. One must not only take a look at what the hardcore people want but look at the broader applicationa of staying in business by making a product that will sell to a large audience.

[Nightblade]

What a load of nonsense. Baldur's Gate didn't have any tedious TB comat-system, nor did it have radilal-menus to make the game easier for those under 12. And yet it sold like hot-cakes, and became the greatest crpg hit ever. How difficult can it be to add a radial-menu in the consol-conversion process. bah.. Remember the awesome Myth series from Bungie? Remember how popular those games were? And then the 3D prequel made by another company, Myth III - the Wolfage. It was a total disaster. What about that TB-rubbish ToEE. It was a disaster as well.

 

The customers aren't stupid. The critics and those who think they understand the market are. I wouldn't take your advice even if I was blind. Making a dumbed-down consollish BG-game, with nice shiny soulless graphics, radial-menus for kids and even turning it into some chess-like TB game.. it would provoke the millions of people who bought BG1 & 2.

 

 

N.

[Drakron]

Baldur's Gate was a rare case, a game that managed to be good at most it tried to achive (I heard multiplayer was not very good).

 

And IE combat system does not work very well in consoles because it needs mouse driven control and hotkeys to take advantage of it, it could be done with the tumbsticks but they are not very good for that kind of thing.

 

I know there is a PS2 mouse and keyboard but I dont think any publisher wants to release a game that requires having then for the controls feel natural, it would be the same a GT series requires a wheel to not crash the car on every curve.

[mkreku]

The thing is.. I bought my mouse for 49 SEK and my keyboard for 75 SEK (6.85$ and 10.49$ respectively). It wouldn't be impossible for a game company to include a mouse and keyboard for a PS2 game. Of course, the game box would be huuuge.

[Judge Hades]

What a load of nonsense. Baldur's Gate didn't have any tedious TB comat-system, nor did it have radilal-menus to make the game easier for those under 12. And yet it sold like hot-cakes, and became the greatest crpg hit ever. How difficult can it be to add a radial-menu in the consol-conversion process. bah.. Remember the awesome Myth series from Bungie? Remember how popular those games were? And then the 3D prequel made by another company, Myth III - the Wolfage. It was a total disaster. What about that TB-rubbish ToEE. It was a disaster as well.

 

The customers aren't stupid. The critics and those who think they understand the market are. I wouldn't take your advice even if I was blind. Making a dumbed-down consollish BG-game, with nice shiny soulless graphics, radial-menus for kids and even turning it into some chess-like TB game.. it would provoke the millions of people who bought BG1 & 2.

 

 

N.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually BG was turn base. It had a autopause option that simulated rounds. Also how is a radial menu system make it easier for the game play? I am thinking it would make it easier to convert over from PC to COnsole, not make the game easier to play but then again it shouldn't be the GUI that makes the game difficult. It should be the actual game. SOmething that those people who made the Gothic series need to learn.

 

ToEE was a disaster not because it was Turn Base, but because Troika can't make games.