Jump to content

Influence


Recommended Posts

Influence...

 

The most stupidly annoying and desirable shiny coin in this game.

 

WHY, WHY, why in all that is sacred on this earth do i have to cuddle and protect a Visas who has hit dark mastery to gain some lousy influence an an LS on top of that.

 

I would think in my inocence that once she (or anyone else for that matter) attained the desirable state of enlightenement called dark mastery she would come to admire some healthy verbal 'impunities' , but noooooo, i have to hold her hand, brush her hair and make it all better.

 

influence totally destroys my mastery be it light or dark, and it does it in a most cretine way. And in case that is the point, well... some one else is the idiot for not thinking of a better way to balance things

 

how can a light and fuzzy Hanhaar eagerly count the secconds between random murders??????

 

 

IT ANNOYS ME

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously it was intended a a replay bonus material, but it failed. Actually the only influence gains is when you get a stats upgrades.

Of course, many ppl will tell how you can make jedi from a group members... Who cares? They really don't matter, because you never had to use their jedi skills.

Unfortunatelly exactly the stats increase influence is bugged - you get most importan stat increase from HK-47. And he tolds you at least 3 times he likes very much your action, but no influence increase follows...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Handel, what exactly are you saying?

 

I found the influence factor really did affect my decision to replay the game. In fact, I've played the game four times as many times as I played the original game, just to see/receive the various treats...T3's holo-recording of Carth; HK-47's imitation of Bastila/Carth; Visas' force sight lesson, etc. Sure I can read about it on the forums, but it was still nice to discover for myself.

 

I guess it could be slightly annoying that you can't affect the way your character perceives your actions - but I understand that that would have taken a great deal more scripting/voice recording. I think it works pretty well as is, certainly more interesting than how communication with your party members works in other games.

 

As for turning characters to Jedi, I found that to be extremely useful. Especially when it came to Freedon Nadd's tomb on Dxun. Characters are just so much more powerful as Jedi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my last playthrough HK-47 was as LS as you can get.  And before anyone asks, yes I did remove the Pacifist Module.

 

Uh oh...

Why what happens if you don't remove it?

HK whines a lot more.

bnwdancer9ma7pk.gif

Jaguars4ever is still alive.  No word of a lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my last playthrough HK-47 was as LS as you can get.  And before anyone asks, yes I did remove the Pacifist Module.

 

Uh oh...

Why what happens if you don't remove it?

HK whines a lot more.

 

Can he fight?

 

My comment:

 

I think the whole influence thing is good, because it makes the game more realistic, and challenging to meet up to your party's wants. I wish there was a button though to press to hear your party's advice.

 

I also like that what you say effects later in the game, such as seeing Carth and Bastila, etc. Maybe in Kotor 3 there will be the same thing for Kotor 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like many things in KotOR 2 this concept sounds good but the execution lacks a lot of polishing. As most of the games' problems this one is surely another victim of LucasArts imposed development schedule. All NPCs should basically have two sets of behaviours,one for good and one for evil, which means double amount of design for each character and we know that Obsidian didn't even manage to put a acceptable ending into the release version.

 

Nevertheless, the idea is very interesting and if done right could help to make NPCs more realistic and not only cannon fodder. I wish they would even refuse to fight if it goes against their current alignment (or even attack you to protect innocents for instance). Let's hope that they expand the system for NwN2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Influence is both really cool and really unfortunate. It has a lot of potential, but could have been implemented better. But it could have been implemented a lot worse too.

 

It might have been nice if they could have had the things that affect influence with some of your party members change somewhat as those party members' allignment changes, but the amount of work that would have had to go into that in order to make it work well would have been huge. Plus, a lot of the influence things aren't even really based on dark/light.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A changing influence system might not even always be the blessing it would seem to be. I can just see it now...

 

Poster-A: Ok, is this a bug? I'm playing LS male, but I've been trying to get influence with HK-47, just because he's so hilarious. I've got quite a bit, but I'm having trouble getting enough to unlock his final conversation options. So I figured I'd just take the DS hit and do one random killing or something. But whenever I do so, HK-47 comments on the killing and has a discussion with me on death, but I don't gain any influence. Is this some weird bug?

 

Poster-B: You're playing LS and already have quite a bit of influence with HK-47? What's HK-47's light/dark rating?

 

Poster-A: Uh, he's pretty LS right now, especially for him.

 

Poster-B: That's what I thought. You can't get influence from random killings anymore. You won't lose influence or anything, (After all, this is still HK-47) but if you want to gain influence with HK-47 now, you have to do meaningful killings.

 

Poster-A: "Meaningful killings"? What the heck?

 

Poster-B: Yah, like when you come out of the caves on Dantooine and you find the mercs that try to get you to help them to attack Koonda. Tell them you won't help them, and you'll kill them. You'll gain influence with HK-47. Basically, whenever you kill evil people for a higher purpose, to protect innocents or to succeed in your mission or something, you gain inlfuence with HK-47. I'd check out an influence guide for help.

 

Poster-A: What?! I've already been doing things like that, that's how I gained so much influence with HK-47 while still being LS. I checked an influence guide, and I don't have a single "meaningful killing" situation left!

 

Poster-B: Well, then you're pretty much doomed. Unless... remove HK-47 from your party, than do a bunch of evil things. Because you have influence on him, HK-47 will head back down the dark path. It shouldn't take too long to get him dark enough, and then you'll be able to do random killings to gain influence with him again.

 

Poster-A: You've got to be joking...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It just needs to spread out more. The influence system works best when you dont understand how it works.

 

Once you know that you can have everyone influenved and in robes within 10 minutes of finding them it becomes quite shallow. Of course the difficulty as you pointed out, is that if you make it too complex then your going to have a lot of puzzled people posting pointless questions.

 

Still even as it is now it's a much more organic thing than level have a bit of the story from KOTOR.

 

FFX has an influence system of sorts and yet most people never notice it, and I expect most dont even know it exists. Which is another reason to not make one that is too subtle.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As an aside I like the one in Shining Force. Everyone will tell you more about themselves over time. But if you let them die too often they will clam up so it gives you an incentive to keep everyone alive.

 

It's quite basic, but you could intergrate something similiar into a game system.

 

If someone is critical and you heal them - plus

If someone is critical and you ignore them and they die - minus

 

Casting buff spells on people, giving them good equipment , that sort of thing. Taking equipment off them influence loss etc.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first time you play through, you want the influence system to be as 'realistic' as possible, to provide an immersive experience.

 

When replaying, you want it to be as transparant as possible, to allow you to manipulate events to guarentee the outcome you want, or at least a different outcome from before.

 

For all its imperfections, Kotor 2 was a decent attempt to marry two conflicting aims. As others have said, I hope they keep the system and expand upon it for NWN2, because I think it has a lot of potential.

"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm...

 

I'm afraid i'm being missunderstood.

This is and the first kotor are the only games that left me feeling like i wanted more. I mean i eaven got bored in the middle of half-life and abandoned it.

I never eaven red forums before, let alone post. That-s how mutch i like them.

 

But the first kotor had pride and awe building moments, like becoming a jedi on dantooine, like realizing YOU ARE REVAN, i mean how cool is that.

This one had influence, and i like that, for me is a breakthrough, and if i didn;t appreciate it i wouldn't have bothered with this post. However a great idea is not enough, you have to make it work, to find balance at least.

 

When you take something with so much potential, implement it only half way, and use it to coerce people into playing the game again it's just sad. (imagine if at key moments, choices in the game certain party members left or turned on you if you didn't corrupt or enlighten them by that point, and by the end you would stand alone)

 

As for just ignoring it. I can't, i don't play the game because i'm a Star Wars fan, but because it's a great rpg.

 

As for HK 47 i personally find unnatural the fact that i can change his allignment by example. HE IS A DROID. I would rather do it with a screwdriver and an interface. But i gues some don't, and that's that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

like realizing YOU ARE REVAN, i mean how cool is that.

 

Suprisingly enough not very , when you have to wait for 10 hours for the rest of the game to catch up with you. :lol:

 

How would you improve it ?Thats usually a good stance to take when your describing something you see merit in , but isnt quite there yet.

 

The alignment changing is a result of who the Exile is , the influence only quantifies his degree of control. Thats why people do things that are out of character when around him. Like Mira suddenly not being bothered about killing. You can even talk to her about it afterwards.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not all things apply for everyone

 

i like roleplaying

 

i liked beeing revan

 

on the other hand a new weapon in counterstrike leaves me totally indifferent

 

my favorite colors are blue and black, although they obviously have no merit over others, they simply are.

 

not all things are right or wrong it is a matter of taste

 

 

...much like HK-47 :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dammit, why are the Bioboards down... I made a rather detailed post about this over there at some point. Oh well, here is an abridged version:

 

While the idea behind Influence is brilliant, the implementation of it in KotOR2 is so awful that I'm actually undecided as to whether I prefer it to the simple system of the first KotOR.

 

The worst problem with it is that Influence is practically independent of the character you are playing. Your Persuade skill is irrelevant and I can count the number of times I used Awareness, INT and WIS on one hand. The Influence system is not about having a charismatic or persuasive character. It is about the player telling the characters what they want to hear. If you say what they want to hear, they agree with you and gain Influence. If you say what they don't want to hear, you lose Influence. Regardless of your INT, WIS or CHA, there is never an option to actually change their minds, to convince them that they are wrong or to at least make them doubtful. Instead, to gain Influence you must be a demagogue and a flatterer.

 

The issue with alignment is a corollary to this. Influence is practically independent of their alignment; in my game they supposedly shifted all the way to the Light Side, but the conversations remained exactly the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

................to Althernai

 

now that is an informed oppinion

 

although... with me you just gained influence

with others... i hope you persuaded them ;)

 

 

But, if we would love only perfection,

We would be lonely indeed

So go kotor #

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The worst problem with it is that Influence is practically independent of the character you are playing. Your Persuade skill is irrelevant and I can count the number of times I used Awareness, INT and WIS on one hand. The Influence system is not about having a charismatic or persuasive character. It is about the player telling the characters what they want to hear. If you say what they want to hear, they agree with you and gain Influence. If you say what they don't want to hear, you lose Influence. Regardless of your INT, WIS or CHA, there is never an option to actually change their minds, to convince them that they are wrong or to at least make them doubtful. Instead, to gain Influence you must be a demagogue and a flatterer.

 

 

Well you can look at it two ways.

 

1. You tell people what they want to hear. It's suprisingly similiar in real life ya know. Tell people what they want to hear and they open up to you. It may require that you put aside your own beliefs but it works.

 

2. You agree with people because that is how you feel, people who are friends usually agree on a wide range of things. Rarely will you be buddies with someone who has a totally opposite world view than you do.

 

There are a couple of places you can use pursuade, but that will lose you influence since most of the characters are too smart to fall for that.

 

So in effect you are critisising the system for mirroring real life too closely, which I find rather funny. The only thing missing in the game is you cant buy influence with gifts ;)

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

478327[/snapback]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...