Who was the better Sith Lord?

[Dranoel]

Malak was a wuss - wouldn't even fight Revan head on. He is also a cheating bastard cos he keeps running away to heal on the Leviathan and Star Forge and somehow manages to stun Revan during the confrontation on the Leviathan despite the fact Force Immunity was specifically activated.

 

Kreia is just an interfering old biddy and after the [evil] confrontation in the enclave, when all the masters are already dead, she loses all credibility.

 

Therefore Revan or Nihilis are the only real Sith Lords - and they look the part!

[zazei]

I absolutely agree. From what we are given in K2 about Revan's actions, it seems Malak didn't know what was really going on. If Malak, who I loved by the way, was informed by Revan about what was going down with the "True Sith" Malak would not have been lost in his quest for power. Why Revan didn't trust him is something Obsidian needed to explain. K1 before K2 was Revan trying to conquer the Republic but was "killed" so Malak took over. K1 after K2 makes you wonder why Revan didn't tell Malak about the "True Sith" and screws around with what K1 was doing.

Malek probably would have done the same anyway, it was pretty obvious he didn't like Revan very much in the first game. Also remember Revan did fall to the dark side, there was no noble goal to save the republic when she where a Sith, more likely she wanted to stop the "True Sith" since they where a real treat to her power and Malek didn't need to know that. Or do anyone belive Revan could have remained a Sith so long and still keep her morals from her time as a Jedi? Look what it did to Yuthura.

I have to agree with you Drakonnen. Why do people think Kreia was better than Malak when she was never DS throughout the game and when she did take up the role as Darth Traya she was barely DS, thanks to Visas force sight thingy. Sure she was manipulative and cunning but not as a Sith but as a Grey who needed to train the Exile to follow Revan or as she said "show 'them' the way".

 

I hope others realize we never knew what Kreia was like as Sith Lord until the endgame where we kill her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Malek was an character who's entire life seemed based around Revan while Kreia had an interesting personality/hidden goals and a hole creepy feel about her under your training. Was there ever any doubt about what Malek wanted to do? While Kreia wasn't a Sith she was more dark then grey and defenitly not anywhere near the LS. Just as Jolee was grey/light she was dark/grey. No one who didn't at least have a portion of the DS would ever had teach the exile how to kill the jedi masters and get his/her revenge. After all you don't need to follow the Sith teachings to use follow the

DS.

[Vashanti]

Malak was a transparent hack living in the shadow (and fear) of Revan. He struck me as an insecure Sith Lord who probably woke up from nightmares of Revan.

 

Kreia, on the other hand, managed to actually *beat* the other Sith Lords, using her best weapon: manipulation. Plus, true to her form, she didn't try to become Darth Traya; she was setting Atris up to assume that role, and only claimed it herself after the player defeated Atris.

[TetsuJedi]

Kreia was a much better Sith Lord.

 

Malak... eh, any dumb commander can order the obliteration of facilities/installations/cities/worlds. No tactics. When the Sith Fleet was under Revan's command, he didn't have just any world bombed to the Stone Age. Key positions and facilities remain intact but under his command.

 

Kreia = master manipulator.

[Perpetua Atari]

Ooh, Kreia, definately! I remember when I saw some teaser screens for the game before it came out, I'd see her and think, "Ok, I already don't like this person. Why do they stick an old woman in your group?" But now that I've played through the game (beat it this afternoon XD) I think she is quite...interesting. Her darkness is subtler, but it also runs deeper. In my opinion a better Sith is one who isn't perhaps so blatantly evil, where they run around with an "I'm sinister!" sticker on their forehead...but rather, one who is so corrupted...eh...I can't figure out how to end this sentence. Anyone know where I'm going with this?

[Drakonnen]

Malak... eh, any dumb commander can order the obliteration of facilities/installations/cities/worlds.  No tactics.  When the Sith Fleet was under Revan's command, he didn't have just any world bombed to the Stone Age.  Key positions and facilities remain intact but under his command.

 

How in the world could you possibly know that? Thats pure conjecture.

 

KOTOR1 barely told us anything about Revan's reign as Sith. Just because the game never pointed to specific instances of his use of power in such ways, doesn't mean he never did. After all, the game says specifically that he never did act in such a way either.

 

Additionally, Malak did display tactics. You just seem to be foregetting them. He went after the Endar Spire specifically to try and take out the Republic and Jedi's most tallented battle meditator, a rather calculated strike.

 

When they made it to Taris and were going to escape, Malak blasted the planet into oblivion to try and stop them. Use of overhwelming force, yes, but still a tactic.

 

Waiting for the Jedi to attack Revan's ship, then betraying his master and firing on him at the right moment in an effort to take them both out, definetly tactical.

 

And keeping the Republic fleet off balance and occupied elsewhere so that he could strike and wipe out one of the strongest Jedi bastions of Dantooine? If thats not strategy and tactics...

 

Kreia = master manipulator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, no, no. She was a master nothing. We all saw it coming, and if we would've been given a legitamate opportunity to throw her off the Ebon Hawk earlier, I bet most of us would have taken it, Force Bond or not. Her "manipulations" only succeed because she was dealing with 1 and 2 dimensional characters, including the seemingly half brain dead Exile through whom we really never get the option to choose another path.

[JamieKirby]

i don't care, they both went down within a minute or so anyway.

[zazei]

Malak... eh, any dumb commander can order the obliteration of facilities/installations/cities/worlds.  No tactics.  When the Sith Fleet was under Revan's command, he didn't have just any world bombed to the Stone Age.  Key positions and facilities remain intact but under his command.

 

How in the world could you possibly know that? Thats pure conjecture.

 

KOTOR1 barely told us anything about Revan's reign as Sith. Just because the game never pointed to specific instances of his use of power in such ways, doesn't mean he never did. After all, the game says specifically that he never did act in such a way either.

While it's true we don't learn much very much about how Revan reign was in kotor 1 it seems likly she didn't blow up entire planets, Why? well look on how people react after Taris is blown away. There is no hint that things like that have happend in the past except Telos witch where also Maleks dessision.

 

Also in TSL Desiple tell the exile on the Eban Hawk that Revan did keep key positions and facilities intact.

Additionally, Malak did display tactics.  You just seem to be foregetting them.  He went after the Endar Spire specifically to try and take out the Republic and Jedi's most tallented battle meditator, a rather calculated strike. 

When they made it to Taris and were going to escape, Malak blasted the planet into oblivion to try and stop them.  Use of overhwelming force, yes, but still a tactic.

Malek had no idea Revan was helping Bastila at that point or that she where anywhere near escaping. All he did was to blow up a loyal planet and make it much harder to find Bastila in case she had found somewhere safe to stay on the planet.

After all he didn't use something like the Death Star so there is a chance Batila might have survived even if she where on the surfuce when it happened.

Waiting for the Jedi to attack Revan's ship, then betraying his master and firing on him at the right moment in an effort to take them both out, definetly tactical.

He was just lucky in this one. Hardly any strategy worth mentioning except grapping a chance when you see it.

And keeping the Republic fleet off balance and occupied elsewhere so that he could strike and wipe out one of the strongest Jedi bastions of Dantooine?  If thats not strategy and tactics...

I agree with this one, but Maleks main problem wasn't really the jedi at all, he should have concentrated more ressurses at finding/stoping Revan instead of blowing up planets that didn't much count at that point. He knew after all where the Star maps was so he could have sendt a little more out to those places then 6-8 Sith. If he is so into blowing planets up, why not Maanan? that would both send a message to his enemies and stopped the republic from finding the Star forge.

 

Besides there is no excuse for Malek choosing Brandon to be his apprentice, he didn't even punish Brandon for blowing up part of his bride and killing a man who could have been working on something important at the time.

 

No, no, no.  She was a master nothing.  We all saw it coming, and if we would've been given a legitamate opportunity to throw her off the Ebon Hawk earlier, I bet most of us would have taken it, Force Bond or not.  Her "manipulations" only succeed because she was dealing with 1 and 2 dimensional characters, including the seemingly half brain dead Exile through whom we really never get the option to choose another path.

Remember that Exile doesn't know about her dealings with Atton or what she does to Disiple and the others. Why exactly should the exile have kicked Kreia out or anything like that? Would you have tuned away the only allied who seems to be able to help you reconnect with the force while you have a whole legion of Sith after you?

 

Kreia might also have munipilated the Exile with the force just as she does with most of the others. And while Kreia might have dealt with a few 1 and 2 dimensional characters Malek was one.

[Grant Dempsey]

I absolutely agree. From what we are given in K2 about Revan's actions, it seems Malak didn't know what was really going on. If Malak, who I loved by the way, was informed by Revan about what was going down with the "True Sith" Malak would not have been lost in his quest for power. Why Revan didn't trust him is something Obsidian needed to explain. K1 before K2 was Revan trying to conquer the Republic but was "killed" so Malak took over. K1 after K2 makes you wonder why Revan didn't tell Malak about the "True Sith" and screws around with what K1 was doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on what was revealed about Revan's character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Revan seemed to be the type who was confident enough in his own ability to control, manipulate, and steer events in the direction he wanted them to go, to the point that he would've felt that sharing his true motives at the time was simply unnecessary. The less people one has to trust for no reason, the better, I suppose. I assume Revan was a lot like Kreia, in that (during his time as the Dark Lord of the Sith) he valued his "allies" more as tools and pawns that could be used than as friends.

 

Besides, it seemed like his ulterior motive for "falling" (sacrificing himself) to the Dark Side of the Force and leading his new legions of Sith into waging war against the Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order, seemed to be for the sake of actually strengthening the galaxy somehow, should it find itself needing the strength to defend itself against the "true" Sith Empire, whenever it actually struck. That was most likely why he actually chose to become and use the Sith specifically, given the Sith Order's strict mentality of "the strong should rule the weak" and whatnot.

 

So, I bet Revan recognized the brutality and ruthlessness inside Malak, and actually valued it to some degree, if it could be sort of "kept in check" and controlled (since Revan was portrayed as having been much more precise and practical than Malak). Assuming Malak fell pretty much around the same time Revan fell (although Revan still obviously would've been keeping certain ancient teachings and knowledge he came across -- as well as the truth of his own "fall" -- to himself), maybe Revan recognized Malak's growing bloodlust from the very start and decided not to reveal the truth to him in favor of using him as a "trained attack dog" of sorts.

 

Unfortunately for Revan, the brutality and ruthlessness inside Malak ultimately led Malak to betray him and usurp his rule and control over the Sith Order. Of course, with Malak leading their legions of Sith at that point, his brutality and ruthlessness obviously couldn't be "kept in check" by Revan any longer and so all of the Sith probably began to follow Malak's example, never really thinking ahead beyond simply crushing all opposition and whatnot. Revan's plans and uses for his legions of Sith were effectively ruined when Malak betrayed him, ignorant of Revan's true motives the entire time.

[Drakron]

Sith fully expected to be replaced at some point, Palpatine knew that Vader would try to replace him given the chance.

 

They value that because deep down Sith ideas are the law of the jungle were the strong sould rule over the weak.

 

As for Malak tactics ... well he displayed none but then again he did not really needed then since he had a infinite suppy of ships and droids, he did what Palpatine will do millenia later with simply rulling the Galaxy with sheer numbers of ships and troops.

 

The problem in this game is these "Sith" are not really Sith, using the Dark Side does not make anyone a Sith and same goes with using Sith knowledge, just because they use it does not mean they are Sith, they need to follow the Sith ideas and none of these do ... one wants to get rid of the Force, another wants to kill all live and the last just hangs around just because.

[Darth Coran]

Ooh, Kreia, definately!  I remember when I saw some teaser screens for the game before it came out, I'd see her and think, "Ok, I already don't like this person.  Why do they stick an old woman in your group?"  But now that I've played through the game (beat it this afternoon XD) I think she is quite...interesting.  Her darkness is subtler, but it also runs deeper.  In my opinion a better Sith is one who isn't perhaps so blatantly evil, where they run around with an "I'm sinister!" sticker on their forehead...but rather, one who is so corrupted...eh...I can't figure out how to end this sentence.  Anyone know where I'm going with this? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'm thinking you're trying to say that you believe Kreia to be much more Evil than Malak yet being much more subtler than Malak(though considering his tactics,a screaming bantha could be more sublte than him)

[Perpetua Atari]

I'm thinking you're trying to say that you believe Kreia to be much more Evil than Malak yet being much more subtler than Malak(though considering his tactics,a screaming bantha could be more sublte than him)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yup, thanks. I was tired when I wrote that last night, heh. But yeah...I believe that dark subtlety is far cooler than Malak's "let's attack everything that moves" thing.

[Jedi Master Revan]

As far as you guys saying Kreia was only a good manipulator, My only response to that is Palpatine was also a really good manipulator.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Malek probably would have done the same anyway, it was pretty obvious he didn't like Revan very much in the first game. Also remember Revan did fall to the dark side, there was no noble goal to save the republic when she where a Sith, more likely she wanted to stop the "True Sith" since they where a real treat to her power and Malek didn't need to know that. Or do anyone belive Revan could have remained a Sith so long and still keep her morals from her time as a Jedi? Look what it did to Yuthura. 

 

Malek was an character who's entire life seemed based around Revan while Kreia had an interesting personality/hidden goals and a hole creepy feel about her under your training. Was there ever any doubt about what Malek wanted to do? While Kreia wasn't a Sith she was more dark then grey and defenitly not anywhere near the LS. Just as Jolee was grey/light she was dark/grey. No one who didn't at least have a portion of the DS would ever had teach the exile how to kill the jedi masters and get his/her revenge. After all you don't need to follow the Sith teachings to use follow the

DS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How could you say Malak didn't like Revan, they were best friends up until Malak turned on Revan. And from what we are given from K2 Revan did indeed fall to the DS but it is said that he "sacrificed" himself to the DS so that he can, I guess, "save" the Republic. He's like Vader who "sacrificed" himself so that he can save Padme from dying but in the end it does not work out that way.

 

I don't understand why you would say that Malak's entire life revolved around Revan, they were just best friends. Of course there was no doubt in what Malak wanted to do... destroy the Jedi and conquer the Republic. What does Kreia want to do... destroy the force because it has a will . That's just weird. Kreia never wanted to teach the Exile to kill the Jedi Masters, she just wanted to them to see that living with out the Force is not as scary as they think it is.

 

Ooh, Kreia, definately!  I remember when I saw some teaser screens for the game before it came out, I'd see her and think, "Ok, I already don't like this person.  Why do they stick an old woman in your group?"  But now that I've played through the game (beat it this afternoon XD) I think she is quite...interesting.  Her darkness is subtler, but it also runs deeper.  In my opinion a better Sith is one who isn't perhaps so blatantly evil, where they run around with an "I'm sinister!" sticker on their forehead...but rather, one who is so corrupted...eh...I can't figure out how to end this sentence.  Anyone know where I'm going with this? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think what you are saying is that if Kreia were actually evil she would be better than Malak. Thing is... she's not evil or DS for that matter.

 

Malak... eh, any dumb commander can order the obliteration of facilities/installations/cities/worlds.  No tactics.  When the Sith Fleet was under Revan's command, he didn't have just any world bombed to the Stone Age.  Key positions and facilities remain intact but under his command.

 

How in the world could you possibly know that? Thats pure conjecture.

 

KOTOR1 barely told us anything about Revan's reign as Sith. Just because the game never pointed to specific instances of his use of power in such ways, doesn't mean he never did. After all, the game says specifically that he never did act in such a way either.

 

Additionally, Malak did display tactics. You just seem to be foregetting them. He went after the Endar Spire specifically to try and take out the Republic and Jedi's most tallented battle meditator, a rather calculated strike.

 

When they made it to Taris and were going to escape, Malak blasted the planet into oblivion to try and stop them. Use of overhwelming force, yes, but still a tactic.

 

Waiting for the Jedi to attack Revan's ship, then betraying his master and firing on him at the right moment in an effort to take them both out, definetly tactical.

 

And keeping the Republic fleet off balance and occupied elsewhere so that he could strike and wipe out one of the strongest Jedi bastions of Dantooine? If thats not strategy and tactics...

 

Kreia = master manipulator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, no, no. She was a master nothing. We all saw it coming, and if we would've been given a legitamate opportunity to throw her off the Ebon Hawk earlier, I bet most of us would have taken it, Force Bond or not. Her "manipulations" only succeed because she was dealing with 1 and 2 dimensional characters, including the seemingly half brain dead Exile through whom we really never get the option to choose another path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Once again Drakonnen, you and I are on the same page. Malak had a lot of foresight in his plans to take over the Republic. Not only did he basically destroy Dantooine and the Jedi Enclave there but took some Jedi so that he could feed upon them. The only problem was... Revan the Great. If not for Revan no one would have stopped Malak except maybe Nihilus.

 

And the whole "destroy all my enemies at once", if that wasn't stategy and tactics, I don't know what is

 

I absolutely agree. From what we are given in K2 about Revan's actions, it seems Malak didn't know what was really going on. If Malak, who I loved by the way, was informed by Revan about what was going down with the "True Sith" Malak would not have been lost in his quest for power. Why Revan didn't trust him is something Obsidian needed to explain. K1 before K2 was Revan trying to conquer the Republic but was "killed" so Malak took over. K1 after K2 makes you wonder why Revan didn't tell Malak about the "True Sith" and screws around with what K1 was doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Based on what was revealed about Revan's character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Revan seemed to be the type who was confident enough in his own ability to control, manipulate, and steer events in the direction he wanted them to go, to the point that he would've felt that sharing his true motives at the time was simply unnecessary. The less people one has to trust for no reason, the better, I suppose. I assume Revan was a lot like Kreia, in that (during his time as the Dark Lord of the Sith) he valued his "allies" more as tools and pawns that could be used than as friends.

 

Besides, it seemed like his ulterior motive for "falling" (sacrificing himself) to the Dark Side of the Force and leading his new legions of Sith into waging war against the Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order, seemed to be for the sake of actually strengthening the galaxy somehow, should it find itself needing the strength to defend itself against the "true" Sith Empire, whenever it actually struck. That was most likely why he actually chose to become and use the Sith specifically, given the Sith Order's strict mentality of "the strong should rule the weak" and whatnot.

 

So, I bet Revan recognized the brutality and ruthlessness inside Malak, and actually valued it to some degree, if it could be sort of "kept in check" and controlled (since Revan was portrayed as having been much more precise and practical than Malak). Assuming Malak fell pretty much around the same time Revan fell (although Revan still obviously would've been keeping certain ancient teachings and knowledge he came across -- as well as the truth of his own "fall" -- to himself), maybe Revan recognized Malak's growing bloodlust from the very start and decided not to reveal the truth to him in favor of using him as a "trained attack dog" of sorts.

 

Unfortunately for Revan, the brutality and ruthlessness inside Malak ultimately led Malak to betray him and usurp his rule and control over the Sith Order. Of course, with Malak leading their legions of Sith at that point, his brutality and ruthlessness obviously couldn't be "kept in check" by Revan any longer and so all of the Sith probably began to follow Malak's example, never really thinking ahead beyond simply crushing all opposition and whatnot. Revan's plans and uses for his legions of Sith were effectively ruined when Malak betrayed him, ignorant of Revan's true motives the entire time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good stuff. Revan did teach Malak one lesson and that was the strongest must survive, I think he should have kept that secret so Malak wouldn't have turned on him. Malak says that Revan knew one day that Malak would challenge him for the throne of the Sith, which is understandable, but from what we learn of what Revan's goals were in K2 it doesn't make sense why he would learn the ways of the Sith and not keep an eye on Malak knowing he would turn on him. Revan was trying to do too much too quickly in my opinion.

[Grant Dempsey]

Good stuff. Revan did teach Malak one lesson and that was the strongest must survive, I think he should have kept that secret so Malak wouldn't have turned on him. Malak says that Revan knew one day that Malak would challenge him for the throne of the Sith, which is understandable, but from what we learn of what Revan's goals were in K2 it doesn't make sense why he would learn the ways of the Sith and not keep an eye on Malak knowing he would turn on him. Revan was trying to do too much too quickly in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, Revan couldn't've kept the whole "the strong must rule the weak" philosophy a secret from Malak, seeing as it was practically the whole underlying mentality upon which all other teachings of the Sith grew and upon which the Sith all seemed to operate. Keeping such a thing a secret from someone, while still hoping that person would become a Sith, would be like trying to train them as a Jedi, but refusing to teach them about the Light Side of the Force. I don't see how Revan could've kept that a secret, especially so since his ulterior motive and his whole plan seemed to be one of strengthening the galaxy to begin with.

 

Unless you're referring specifically to the idea of betraying one's master when one learns one is more powerful, but, really, if Revan's goal was to instill a very strict sense of focus on strength and power into the galaxy, I bet he just saw it as a necessary risk. He was probably just confident enough (and obviously overconfident in the long-run) in his ability to keep Malak under his control.

 

The problem between Revan and Malak was that Revan actually had an ulterior motive for falling to the Dark Side of the Force in the first place and a very specific plan for how to go about "conquering" the galaxy, whereas Malak really was just a Sith for the sake of it. In sacrificing himself to the darkness, Revan led Malak into a true fall, since he never shared the truth of his own. And so, like a good little Sith, Malak "followed the rules" and betrayed Revan. Unfortunately, that didn't fit in line with Revan's plans...

 

Revan's plans for using the Sith as just a means to an end backfired when it ended up being a fundamental teaching of the Sith Order -- which he himself had spread -- that ultimately led him to his initial downfall.

[TetsuJedi]

How in the world could you possibly know that?  Thats pure conjecture.

 

A commander with soldiers and weapons at his/her disposal can simply order, "shoot that". That was simply my point. Nothing more.

 

KOTOR1 barely told us anything about Revan's reign as Sith.  Just because the game never pointed to specific instances of his use of power in such ways, doesn't mean he never did.  After all, the game says specifically that he never did act in such a way either.

 

Revan's power is not the issue, but his tactical brilliance in warfare. (And apparently, politics-- the assassination of the Echani General, Yusanis. But this is veering off-point.)

 

In conversation with G0-T0, it said that Revan would leave key installations intact while Malak brainlessly crushed everything in his path. And would rather Revan as Sith Lord than Malak.

 

In both KotOR1 and KotOR2, Revan had indirectly received praises for his cleverness and tactical brilliance (Vandar, Zhar, Kreia, and the Exile).

 

Additionally, Malak did display tactics.  You just seem to be foregetting them.  He went after the Endar Spire specifically to try and take out the Republic and Jedi's most tallented battle meditator, a rather calculated strike.

 

When they made it to Taris and were going to escape, Malak blasted the planet into oblivion to try and stop them.  Use of overhwelming force, yes, but still a tactic.

 

Waiting for the Jedi to attack Revan's ship, then betraying his master and firing on him at the right moment in an effort to take them both out, definetly tactical.

 

 

Luck. But since they're Force users, 'chance'. :D

 

There is no 'tactics' in brute force.

 

And, IIRC, Malak himself admitted to neo-Revan, Bastila and Carth, that firing on the then-Sith Flagship's bridge, to being an opportunity he couldn't ignore.

 

About the attack on the Endar Spire.... As it was established that Battle Meditation is a rare and very powerful Force Power. Malak didn't have it. He wanted to have and control the person that did. Heck, if I were a Sith Lord, I would too! I'd order the fleet to board the Endar Spire and capture Bastila. But that doesn't make me a tactial genius.

 

And keeping the Republic fleet off balance and occupied elsewhere so that he could strike and wipe out one of the strongest Jedi bastions of Dantooine?  If thats not strategy and tactics...

 

With the size of the Sith fleet, it's a given that there are fleet divisions, as with the US Navy in rLife.

 

IIRC, Dantooine is in the outer rim, not a military installation, hence not militarily defended.

 

Not exatcly a pinnacle military tactical achievement. Yay Malak! Good job.

 

No, no, no.  She was a master nothing.  We all saw it coming, and if we would've been given a legitamate opportunity to throw her off the Ebon Hawk earlier, I bet most of us would have taken it, Force Bond or not.  Her "manipulations" only succeed because she was dealing with 1 and 2 dimensional characters, including the seemingly half brain dead Exile through whom we really never get the option to choose another path.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While I am getting lazy to type , I believe Zazei had addressed this.

 

And I would just like to air that I am just sharing my understanding on the subject matter and not in any way proclaiming (or projecting) to be an expert in this competely fictional matter.

[Dragonforce]

Plus Malak actually used force breach on me. I had to fight him without the force. And he had moves! His Power Attack was the best attack animation in KoTOR 1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey now. Kreia had Kinetic Combat, man. Plus, I seem to remember being stunned several times in a row by Kreia spamming Force Wave, Kill, Insanity, and other stunning spells against me, too...

 

But, hey, for the poll, by being a "better" Sith Lord, do you mean better as a representative and leader of the actual Sith or better as in a more interesting character? 'Cause Kreia wasn't really much of a "Sith Lord" since her beliefs weren't very in line with the teachings of the Sith at all, making Darth Malak the better Sith Lord, but I would say Kreia was a more interesting character...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i had the better sense to only teach her insanity and then give her stuff like master heal and master battle mediatation lol

 

like to see her use that against me :D

[Drakron]

Well, Revan couldn't've kept the whole "the strong must rule the weak" philosophy a secret from Malak, seeing as it was practically the whole underlying mentality upon which all other teachings of the Sith grew and upon which the Sith all seemed to operate. Keeping such a thing a secret from someone, while still hoping that person would become a Sith, would be like trying to train them as a Jedi, but refusing to teach them about the Light Side of the Force. I don't see how Revan could've kept that a secret, especially so since his ulterior motive and his whole plan seemed to be one of strengthening the galaxy to begin with.

 

It would be more teaching someone to be a Jedi and not telling about the Jedi code.

 

The "light side" is almost as a big nonsense about the dark side (not the dakr side dangers) and we sould keep it out of this.

 

That is the issue, the Sith act the way they act because they think they have the right because they are stronger, a Sith that does not think that way is not a Sith, like a Jedi that does not follow the Jedi code is not a Jedi.

 

Unless you're referring specifically to the idea of betraying one's master when one learns one is more powerful, but, really, if Revan's goal was to instill a very strict sense of focus on strength and power into the galaxy, I bet he just saw it as a necessary risk. He was probably just confident enough (and obviously overconfident in the long-run) in his ability to keep Malak under his control.

 

As I said it before, a Sith is fully expected to be replaced at the moment that s/he shows weakness because its part of the core of their reasoning, if they are not strong enough to remain in their position they sould be replaced.

 

Revan's goal (whatever it might been) does not change the fact that as a Sith he had no right to be Dark Lord of the Sith if /she was not strong enough to maintain the title.

 

One could argue that Malak did not played by the rules but that is the problem of the Sith "Laws of the Jungle" system since it simply allows to grasp power.

[Objulen]

Malak was so one-dimensional that I half expected him to be a character in Paper Mario.

[Lord_Nihilus]

Traya of course!!!

 

 

malak wasn

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Well, Revan couldn't've kept the whole "the strong must rule the weak" philosophy a secret from Malak, seeing as it was practically the whole underlying mentality upon which all other teachings of the Sith grew and upon which the Sith all seemed to operate. Keeping such a thing a secret from someone, while still hoping that person would become a Sith, would be like trying to train them as a Jedi, but refusing to teach them about the Light Side of the Force. I don't see how Revan could've kept that a secret, especially so since his ulterior motive and his whole plan seemed to be one of strengthening the galaxy to begin with.

 

Unless you're referring specifically to the idea of betraying one's master when one learns one is more powerful, but, really, if Revan's goal was to instill a very strict sense of focus on strength and power into the galaxy, I bet he just saw it as a necessary risk. He was probably just confident enough (and obviously overconfident in the long-run) in his ability to keep Malak under his control.

 

The problem between Revan and Malak was that Revan actually had an ulterior motive for falling to the Dark Side of the Force in the first place and a very specific plan for how to go about "conquering" the galaxy, whereas Malak really was just a Sith for the sake of it. In sacrificing himself to the darkness, Revan led Malak into a true fall, since he never shared the truth of his own. And so, like a good little Sith, Malak "followed the rules" and betrayed Revan. Unfortunately, that didn't fit in line with Revan's plans...

 

Revan's plans for using the Sith as just a means to an end backfired when it ended up being a fundamental teaching of the Sith Order -- which he himself had spread -- that ultimately led him to his initial downfall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I believe that was the problem with Darth Revan, he seemed so confident that he could keep Malak under his thumb for as long as he needed. Like Malak said, he acted quicker than Revan had realized.

 

And yes I was specifically referring to the fact that when the apprentice learns that his power has grown farther than that of his master that he must kill his master.

 

The problem I am having is Revan teaching all of his underlings, especially Malak, the ways of the Sith while trying to save the Republic knowing that his apprentice would turn on him. Why not tell Malak "We have to fall to the DS to save the Republic, so that if you turn on me you can continue my war against the Republic to save it."

 

Overconfident indeed, that arrogant son of a...

[Drakron]

Revan was not trying to save the Republic, he was trying to conquer it.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Revan was not trying to save the Republic, he was trying to conquer it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Did you not play the second game? Revan did not intend to conquer the Republic but unify against the "True Sith".

[Palmtree]

Revan was not trying to save the Republic, he was trying to conquer it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Listen to all the conversations in KOTOR II about Revan. In KOTOR I, it may have seemed Revan was out to destroy the Republic, but in KOTOR II it is implied that Revan may have fallen to the dark side because he knew it was the only way to protect the Republic.

[Drakron]

Yes and again that is not fact (since we learn from a NPC), KotOR had no intention of giving Revan such motivation in the first place.

 

The "true Sith" is also a bunch of crap, the Sith race is dead from over 1000 years (even TSL loading screens agree with that) and Revan was as Sith as anyone can be after the Great Hyperspace War.

 

Revan "saving the Republic" makes as much sense as Palpatine doing what he did to "save the galaxy" from the Vorg.