Ravager = Star Destroyer?

[Kissamies]

Ooo, Star Destroyers! Let me dust off the ol' Imperial Sourcebook (2nd ed.) again. I guess this stuff might have been revised since, but here's how it was laid down in '95.

 

VSD: Late Clone Wars design. Lots of firepower, but slow. Best used for planetary assault and defense. Can carry 2 TIE fighter squadrons. Lenght: 900 m

VSDII: Didn't make it to the Clone Wars. Upgraded engines. Less, but more individually powerful guns. Has ion cannons instead of concussion missile tubes. 2 fighter squadrons. Lenght: 900 m

 

ISD: The imperial ship we all know and love. 60 turbolaser batteries, 60 ion cannons, 10 tractor beams, 6 TIE squadrons. As fast as VSDII. Lenght: 1600 m

ISDII: The upgraded impstar. Has more turbolasers and they are bigger, 50 heavy batteries and 50 heavy cannons. Only 20 ion cannons. Guess the non lethal firepower wasn't so important this time around. More emphasis on armor and less on shields when compared to ISD1. Otherwise the same.

 

SSD: Vader's ship. 250 each of regular and heavy turbolaser batteries, missile tubes and ion cannons. 40 tractor beams and 12 TIE squadrons. Slower than ISD's, but it's understandable considering how it's 8 km long. Strong hull and powerful shields.

 

There's also the silly comic book SSDs that have to be even bigger (something like 15-17,5 km IIRC) and some later era New Republic SD designs. Those tend to be more compact but powerful.

 

What the Ravager most resembles IMO is the VSD because it has those little wing things much like the Victory class has. It's shape also somehow suggests relative compactness in my mind. VSD wasn't in the movies, but it's based on concept art and early models of ISD ANH.

[DSLuke]

mmmmmm

 

but that makes not an alien design just a copy of a republic ship

alien or unknown design seem to point more to the shape or the class of the ship not where it was made.

 

I've reloaded some old KOTOR1 saves and the only thing they talk about alien (alien technology) they mean the Star Forge.

 

Where exactly in the game did you hear them call the Leviathan copies of alien design?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would make Leviathon and its clones, alien produced not DESIGNED.

 

By alien design I understand that the blueprints were found in the SF and Revan simply produced them.

[213374U]

Saul (a Republic warhero) had this ship (one of his kind) in command when defected. It was the first the Republic produced.

Then he took it too the copy machine (SF, see end movie or screenshot a few posts before)

You have just made that up. There is nothing to support it, anywhere.

 

 

Where exactly in the game did you hear them call the Leviathan copies of alien design?

Try the loading screens.

[darknesslord]

the leviathan was a republic ship before saul turned on them, carth told you that

[213374U]

And everything else hinted it was a rakatan vessel. That's what I mean by screwup.

[Guest Damar Stiehl]

Not true. Carth says that Saul defected, but says nothing about the Leviathan.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Not true. Carth says that Saul defected, but says nothing about the Leviathan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But he also recognises it as Sauls ship so it must be the same ship he defected in.Otherwise it would just be a ship of alien design and Carth wouldnt be able to recognise it would he?

[213374U]

But he also recognises it as Sauls ship so it must be the same ship he defected in.Otherwise it would just be a ship of alien design and Carth wouldnt be able to recognise it would he?

Carth was already a respected member of the Republic military. This means he probably recognized most of the important enemy capital ships and probably some of their commanders as well.

 

It's not too long a shot to assume that the Ebon Hawk had sensors. The Leviathan's signature probably was enough to tell it from other ships of the same design, and that would be enough for Carth to recognize it. If you have played any of the X-Wing games you know what I'm talking about.

[Jad'en]

Not sure if this has been answered or not...

 

But the Leviathon is a Star Forge Design, but the Ravager is a Republic vessel (dragged from the gravity well of Malachor V)

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Not sure if this has been answered or not...

 

But the Leviathon is a Star Forge Design, but the Ravager is a Republic vessel (dragged from the gravity well of Malachor V)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well it looks like Saul had a starforge ship before they found the starforge then. But I cant say I care enough to look through KOTOR I again.

[DSLuke]

So we are lead to another question.

 

Why there aren't other ships like the Ravager in the republic fleet?? Since for this one we know for sure it was a Republic ship.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

So we are lead to another question.

 

Why there aren't other ships like the Ravager in the republic fleet?? Since for this one we know for sure it was a Republic ship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well if it's anything like the Star Destroyers they are very expensive to make and if you dont have a lot of cash then are likely in reserve for real emergencies.

 

The ones they do fly around in look like Correlian design only more angular.

[DSLuke]

I mean the only Republic ships we see are some fighters and others like the Endar Spire.

[jedipodo]

The developers gave the Republic only the small weak looking vessels and Malak and Nihilus the big boss capital ship, because of a much more simple identification who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

[DSLuke]

Anawayz the conclusion is that Republic ship suck big time.

 

They don't ship of ISD or SSD class.

[Zilod]

So we are lead to another question.

 

Why there aren't other ships like the Ravager in the republic fleet?? Since for this one we know for sure it was a Republic ship.

 

Is a pertinent question, but consider that the ravager was created by Obsidian after KOTOR, so in no way we can have it in the previous game...

 

I think Obsidian looked to create a unique ship for Nihilus, a ship that inspired fear and power... the ISD is a recognizable warship, with all of this and they draw the Nihilus ship resembling that ship (as the Ebon Hawk for example resemble the Falcon).

 

I think the design itself is good, and it really looks like a fearsome ghost ship, but also it crushed against continuity as obiously we never saw a similar ship in KOTOR.

 

The ship itself seem a bit distant from the other republic ships (generally way smaller and with a very different design), but still less than the Leviatahn with all its curved lines.

[213374U]

I'm thinking it was some sort of command ship during the battle of Malachor V, just like the Executor was the imperial command vessel during the battle of Endor. Massive, powerful, unique of its kind.

[Zilod]

Yes i think that too, but i see it more as a jutification for its existance rather than its reason.

 

also is likelly that a ship of that power where used as capital ship by Revan himself and for what we know (or suppose) he was not in the heart of battle and so near Malachor.

 

but anyway it seem the best reason to have that ship in game.

[Kissamies]

Here's my completely imaginary, not grounded on facts of any kind theory about it:

 

Ravager is a battleship class which the Republic only had few of. Pehaps the prevailing military wisdom before Mandalorian Wars favored building lots of smaller ships rather than few big ships to cover more ground when patrolling the galaxy. Almost all of these battleships went to fight against the mandalorians and were either destroyed or defected to the Sith after the war.

 

When the Sith came across the Star Forge, they gave it their most powerful ship class, the Ravager's class with some suggested improvements based on their experiences in war, to replicate. SF didn't produce a carbon copy of it, but a heavily "rakatanized" version. The Sith then abandoned their Republic ships for, if not more powerful, the more crew efficient ships.

 

I'm assuming that the Star Forge ships are quite heavily automated, or Revan would have had trouble crewing her new huge fleet. Crewing them, not SF's production rate might have been the main limiting factor for the rate of putting new Sith ships in service, actually.

[AngryTarsier]

clone the crew!! or droids?

 

you're right who ever said someone screwed up, Bioware says rakatan, made in the SF, obsidian says alien design, unknown.. and we've got SW EU saying it was republic... next thing we'll be fighting is the name "darth" coz up until kotor, it wasn't suppose to be like that and not until th darth bane started the tradition, 2k after kotor btw... then kotor comes and boom.. we have darth nihilus, malak, revan, treya, brandon... and if I can get way with it .. darth bastilla..

[BattleCookiee]

Three years ago, Revan and Malak returned at the head of a massive invasion fleet. Revan had assumed the title of Sith Lord; the hero had become a conqueror.Initially the bulk of the Sith force were former Republic soldiers who had served under Revan. With each conquest thousands more flocked to join the invaders, swelling their numbers.Even many of our own Order have betrayed us, lured by Sith promises of riches and power. But what is more disturbing is the size of the Sith fleet itself.Some of the ships in the Sith fleet are those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars. But many more are of an alien design we have never seen before.The source of this massive fleet is one of the many things about the Sith we cannot explain. It seems impossible to have created it in such a short time, yet we cannot deny its existence.Some of the ships in the Sith fleet are those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars. But many more are of an alien design we have never seen before.The source of this massive fleet is one of the many things about the Sith we cannot explain. It seems impossible to have created it in such a short time, yet we cannot deny its existence.The source of the Sith soldiers is, unfortunately, much easier to understand. Initially the bulk of the force were former Republic soldiers who had served under Revan.With each conquest thousands more flocked to join the invaders, swelling their numbers. Even many of our own Order have betrayed us, lured by Sith promises of riches and power.For two years the Sith were all but invincible.

 

Read it!

Source: Kotor1 Dialog.TLK

 

SOME SHIPS REPUBLIC (LEVIATHAN), OTHER ALIEN (THE SMALL FIGHTERS AND SUCH)

 

Edit: Some more Dialog.TLK proof (BTW, I found no mention of Alien Design Ships in the whole dialog.TLK (loading screens are in it aren't it?):

 

But I don't know why you're so interested, but here it goes.When I think of all the men who have betrayed us, the one that stands out above them all is the one I respected the most. Saul.You don't? I thought everyone did. Admiral Saul Karath is the commander of the entire Sith fleet. He's half the reason Malak has done so well in the war.Saul was my commanding officer back when the Mandalorian Wars first began. He taught me everything about being a soldier... and I looked up to him.Saul approached me before he left. He talked to me about how the Republic was on the losing side... and about how I should start thinking of my survival.I know now that he was trying to recruit me into the Sith, but I couldn't have conceived of it back then. I argued with him and he got angry and he left. I never saw him again.Saul was my mentor... he led us to so many victories against the Mandalorians, even when things looked to be at their worst.I just... I couldn't conceive of it. He... he couldn't be serious. I was wrong, of course... he not only left us for the Sith, he... he gave them the codes to bypass our scanners.I remember waking up as the first of the Sith bombers snuck past our defenses and began destroying half of our docked ships. I knew right away what had happened.I... could have stopped him. I could have stopped it all.Don't even start with that! I don't feel sorry for myself. I feel angry... at Saul and all those others. It's all I can think about sometimes!I've fought Saul for years, now, and if I ever catch up to him... he will regret what he's done. He will regret it.No. No, it's not.But I don't want to talk about it right now.

 

EDIT 2: And more to back-up my Karath was a hero (non-)theorie

The dark side has perverted him, Carth. Once you start down the tainted path it leads you ever further into the depths of evil. I fear he is forever lost.This is not a matter to joke about! If there is one thing we can learn from Saul it is how the power of the dark side can corrupt even the bravest of heroes!

 

EDIT 3: Yet more, Leviathan was at Telos...

Admiral Karath taught me everything I know about being a soldier. He was a legend in the Republic fleet, and a hero to me. Until he betrayed us.When the Sith attacked my home world, the Leviathan - which is Saul Karath's flagship - was at the head of the fleet. My family was destroyed that day and my wife died in the Sith bombardment.

Just ask if you want more proof...

Edited March 10, 2005 by Battlewookiee

[Drakron]

When the Sith came across the Star Forge, they gave it their most powerful ship class, the Ravager's class with some suggested improvements based on their experiences in war, to replicate. SF didn't produce a carbon copy of it, but a heavily "rakatanized" version. The Sith then abandoned their Republic ships for, if not more powerful, the more crew efficient ships.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Problem with that is we seen Rakata design in the form of Sith Fighters, also its complete nonsense since the Star Forge had no problems in duplicating any type of armor.

 

Another thing is we dont actualy know the Ravanger abilities, there is a 5 years gap of when the Ranager was used as the Levianthan was build, as far we know the Levianthan was build out of the experiance of the Mandalorian Wars and was far more capable that what the Republic had being used.

[Zilod]

Some of the ships in the Sith fleet are those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars. But many more are of an alien design we have never seen before.

 

Read it!

Source: Kotor1 Dialog.TLK

 

SOME SHIPS REPUBLIC (LEVIATHAN), OTHER ALIEN (THE SMALL FIGHTERS AND SUCH)

this is an assumption you can't clrearly say republic big ship, alien small fighters.

a lot of big ships where also created by the starforge and these ships doesn't fit in the statement "those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars"

 

it could be that the republic ships he is referring to (less powerfull than alien ones) where not used in main battles but just for less important tasks.

and when he tells about many more where of alien design he is referring to the main force of the fleet (the big curved ones)

 

also my english is quite crappy, but generally i heard the reference of "ships" for some classes while the small fighters are generally referred as fighters...

 

a sort like the navy when the ship is the carrier and the "fighters" it carry are airplanes.

 

another example...

 

the TIE interceptor is a fighter, the ISD is a ship

or this is what i generally heard them as referred

 

 

Edit: Some more Dialog.TLK proof (BTW, I found no mention of Alien Design Ships in the whole dialog.TLK (loading screens are in it aren't it?):

sorry can't check it

 

EDIT 3: Yet more, Leviathan was at Telos...

Admiral Karath taught me everything I know about being a soldier. He was a legend in the Republic fleet, and a hero to me. Until he betrayed us.When the Sith attacked my home world, the Leviathan - which is Saul Karath's flagship - was at the head of the fleet. My family was destroyed that day and my wife died in the Sith bombardment.

Just ask if you want more proof...

yes but we don't know what Leviathan like that.

It could be the same that Saul used in manda wars but also the new one...

also even if at that time it was the old ship it could have replaced that with the "new" more powerfull model.

[213374U]

But what is more disturbing is the size of the Sith fleet itself.Some of the ships in the Sith fleet are those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars. But many more are of an alien design we have never seen before.

The underlined statement proves that the bulk of the Sith fleet was made up of alien vessels. That is consistent with what you can see in the cutscenes. The Leviathan is one of those ships, therefore the Leviathan was a rakatan vessel. End of story.

 

 

SOME SHIPS REPUBLIC (LEVIATHAN), OTHER ALIEN (THE SMALL FIGHTERS AND SUCH)

You have nothing to back this up, and the arguments you seem to think to be true aren't worth jack outside your mind.

 

 

EDIT 3: Yet more, Leviathan was at Telos...

Admiral Karath taught me everything I know about being a soldier. He was a legend in the Republic fleet, and a hero to me. Until he betrayed us.When the Sith attacked my home world, the Leviathan - which is Saul Karath's flagship - was at the head of the fleet. My family was destroyed that day and my wife died in the Sith bombardment.

Just ask if you want more proof...

That proves nothing. We already know that the Leviathan was used in the attack on Telos. How does that prove it was a Republic ship?

 

You have an odd notion of what constitutes "proof".

[BattleCookiee]

Carth, it has been far too long since we last spoke. I see the recent months have not been kind in your case. I barely recognized you.But I recognized you, Saul. I see your face every night even as I promise myself I will kill you for what you did to my home world.Did you learn nothing in your time under me? As a soldier you should understand that casualties were unavoidable. This was an act of war.It was a cowardly act of betrayal! Your fleet bombed a civilian target into oblivion without warning or provocation. And the blood of those innocent people is on your hands!In war even the innocent must die. The Sith would not accept me until I proved I had truly turned my back on the Republic by bombing the planet.

 

As you can read, Saul had to proof he left the Republic by bombing Telos. Why give him a new ship if he has not yet proven himself?

He had taken the Leviathan from the Republic, destroyed Telos with it and defected to the Sith. Why would he change ships if the other Leviathan-class clones are the same?

*Waites for somebody to call this waste of space and twist my words*

 

EDIT:

What happened? What's going on?Sith Interdictor ship. They must have been waiting for us on the hyperspace route. We're caught in their tractor beam.Do you recognize the ship? It's the Leviathan. Saul Karath's vessel. My old mentor.

 

Recognize is NOT by using ID things (to me), so it had te be the same ship (why would Carth recognize it otherwise?)

Edited March 10, 2005 by Battlewookiee