Hannigaholic Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry but I feel I need to jump to the defence of Obsidian here. A lot of people (not all, but many) are complaining about how Obsidian should have done this or included that The simple fact is they've made a VERY good game in the 12 months that they were given. The story was almost brilliant, but fell short at several key moments because they didn't have the time to fully complete it. I believe that, given another 6-12 months, they would have created a masterpiece that was more expansive and involving than the original KotOR! I, for one, will not be holding KotOR II against Obsidian and will in all likliness be buying Neverwinter Nights 2 when it comes out because, having been given 2 years to develop it instead of just 1, I feel they will be able to create a game fitting of the name, as they were almost able to do with KotOR II
Tanuvein Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry but I feel I need to jump to the defence of Obsidian here. A lot of people (not all, but many) are complaining about how Obsidian should have done this or included that The simple fact is they've made a VERY good game in the 12 months that they were given. The story was almost brilliant, but fell short at several key moments because they didn't have the time to fully complete it. I believe that, given another 6-12 months, they would have created a masterpiece that was more expansive and involving than the original KotOR! I, for one, will not be holding KotOR II against Obsidian and will in all likliness be buying Neverwinter Nights 2 when it comes out because, having been given 2 years to develop it instead of just 1, I feel they will be able to create a game fitting of the name, as they were almost able to do with KotOR II <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They made this in 12 months? I didn't know that. The dialogue alone could easily take a writer that long.
DarkLordOnoga Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Well *maybe* Obsidian should have stood up and not let Lucas bully them around? That's my main problem with them. How the hell are you going to get anywhere if you can't stand up for yourself?
Naso Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 When I heard about the ending problems and cut material, I'd thought it was a myth lke the magic Homeworld 2 DustWars which was just a conspiracy theory with no basis in fact. After playing through once, I have to say, I'm inclined to agree that this is almost all LA's fault. In fairness, OE was way to ambitious and may have been fairly dumb in not matching the game to the timetable, but the quality of everything before the end, despite unfinished artwork and buggyware engine, is good enough that I'm forced to believe that if they had the time they would have made it good, and I hope that Atari gives them the time they need for NWN2. I'm really disappointed and annoyed, but until I got all the jedi together, it was the most engrossing rpg I've played. The planets really felt less generic than the first KotOR, and although everything was too coincidental for my liking, a lot of dialog makes it seem they wanted to wrap up a lot of that and didn't get to. Sadly, I think because there's also the xbox version floating around out there, they can't add a patch to fix the holes in the dialog. Having 2 versions would make people even more mad than they are now.....
Tanuvein Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Well *maybe* Obsidian should have stood up and not let Lucas bully them around? That's my main problem with them. How the hell are you going to get anywhere if you can't stand up for yourself? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How? LA could pretty much do whatever they wanted to OE, and OE would take it or face dying as a company.
Volourn Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 No. It's Obsidian's fault. Youa re willing to give them all the credit for the good; not the blame for the bad. I guess LA made the combat easy, forced the game to be over if a NPC died, and other lamey stuff. Whatever. LAY OFF LA, IT'S OBSIDIAN'S FAULT! P.S. For both the good and bad. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
zeroFantasy Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 hmm somehow, BioWare kept changind the release date for KOTOR. They've got strong people that don't want to be bullied around. That's why they didn't want to make KOTOR 2 - too much pressure!
Darth Tratious Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 i personally blame Lucasarts for the game being the way it is they basically had complete control over oe because they are an indie company i think if la hadn't set a ludacris eleasse date the game would have been a 100 times better
Naso Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 A lot of the bugs, and the combat balance, and such, are Obsidian's fault, I know, and it was stupid to be as ambitious as they were, but the quality of the story pre-ending and such testifies not to so much to laziness, as a rush job, and so I feel fairly comfortable that IF they get a decent contract or somehow or another get the time and resources, (a big if, I know), their future games will likely be pretty damn good.
Tanuvein Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 No. It's Obsidian's fault. Youa re willing to give them all the credit for the good; not the blame for the bad. I guess LA made the combat easy, forced the game to be over if a NPC died, and other lamey stuff. Whatever. LAY OFF LA, IT'S OBSIDIAN'S FAULT! P.S. For both the good and bad. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The game was no easier or harder than the first, though I only played both on medium. As for the NPC dying, what hte hell are you talking about?
Trom Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 They made this in 12 months? I didn't know that. The dialogue alone could easily take a writer that long. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> According to Chris Parker, they had over 500,000 words in the game. Actually when you think about it, dealing with all that dialogue and a huge number of other variables every second of the game is unimaginable. The dialogue trees for all those words must have been incredibly complex. I really admire Obsidian's vision and courage to commit to that cycle. Wisdom would be another matter.
Volourn Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 "The game was no easier or harder than the first, though I only played both on medium." No. The game was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy easierrrrrrrrrr than the first. the scary thing is that the first game was easy. "As for the NPC dying, what hte hell are you talking about?" Atton dies. Game over. Mira dies. Game over. Tin Can dies. Game over. *Yawn* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Volourn Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 When you play Atton and get attacked by the two hunter gals. If they kill you; gamed is over... even though your character is alive. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Darth Credulous Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Sorry but I feel I need to jump to the defence of Obsidian here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They're big boys. I'm sure the guys at Obsidian can defend themselves.
Volourn Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 They can; but will they? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Darth Credulous Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Either way, others shouldn't have to do it for them. We're pointing out a serious mistake they made and offering constructive criticism, not beating them bloody in a car park.
jedipodo Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 What the exact reason is I can only suppose, but I think that there must be another reason for the cut ending than a lack of time, money or the like. The plot was written, the voice acting was there (even in the international versions!). "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he
ryan12177 Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 Obsidian did a lot of things right and wrong and the biggest wrong thing was letting Lucas force them to release an unfinished product and ruin the reputation fo a fledgling company. Unless I'm mistaken Bioware walked them through how to make the engine, so its not liek they had to design it from scratch (though I don't understand such things, so who knows) I've seen a post on here from one of the OE staff members saying that those on this board are a minority in not enjoying the game, which isn't true at all because I have friends I've let borrow the game who all came back with negative reviews of it. It just so happens that the majority are telling people off-line not to bother, not posting on this board. And furthermore, this rumor about there being a 3 and all the loose plots from 2 being wrapped up.. that'd just piss me off more because I' d feel like I bought half-a-game, which I did... Plus it'll be sad to see some people going "See, that was their plan all along."
Aegis Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 I've seen a post on here from one fo the OE staff members sayign that those on this board are a minority in not enjoying the game... FYI, that post can easily be interpreted as the exact opposite. People see what they want to see, I guess...
ryan12177 Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 I'll ask your opinion again when you finish the game, Aegis.. trust me, you'll go from joy to anger.
jedipodo Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 I've seen a post on here from one fo the OE staff members sayign that those on this board are a minority in not enjoying the game... I think that here on this boards the expectations in this game had been as high as nowhere else. (Edit: except for Volourn and Hades_One who'd cautioned us about this fault long before ) "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he
Judge Hades Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 I am with Volourn on this one. FOr the goodness and the lameness of KotOR 2, both Obsidian and LucasArts share the responsibility.
Aegis Posted February 21, 2005 Posted February 21, 2005 I'll ask your opinion again when you finish the game, Aegis.. trust me, you'll go from joy to anger. I've gone through it three times, actually. I wasn't talking about the ending, I was talking about how people go nuts about a fairly innocent comment and jump to the conclusion that the people at Obsidian are horrible people just because they don't like the game. If they want to dislike the game, fine. I have some issues with it myself, actually. But I don't think that means they can take a comment and twist it so it'll fit their agenda, when it's actually quite possible that it means the exact opposite.
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