Future Obsidian games

[Creston]

Ok, I enjoyed KOTOR2, but the ending is really just very poor. I've seen all the evidence for the much expanded endings, and I can even understand that it's LucasArt's fault that those extras were cut, leading to the ending being as poor as it was. (and don't get me started on all the dialogue bugs / quest bugs etc.)

 

However, the fact that NO obsidian developer even seems to find two minutes of his/her time to post something about this on their OWN forum, while they are talking about KOTOR2 on a different forum, just leads me to believe that they have very little regard for the community and their paying fans.

 

Obsidian is currently working on two more games, NWN2 and Baldur's Gate 3. If rumor is to be believed, they are even working on KOTOR3. All of these games are in the hands of publishers that are well known for releasing unfinished products. (Ie, Atari/Infogrames and LA)

 

Knowing this, how many of you are going to be purchasing future Obsidian games? While the idea of a KOTOR3 fills me with joy, at the same time I don't think I'll be playing it if it's again done with the same engine, and will again be forced into the half finished product that KOTOR2 turned out to be. I understand that a publisher foots the bill, and has final say on what happens, but there actually ARE developers that will refuse to go along with such crap, that will refuse to let their good name be slandered by publishers who want to milk an extra two months of money out of their franchise.

 

I think, Obsidian, that you need to take a good long look at what happened to Troika, and think hard about where you are going to be taking your next games. Great games plus shoddy execution (plus unfinished endings) eventually lead to you being forced to sell your furniture in an auction.

 

I don't mean to be an ass about this, I just find it VERY distressing that ypu, Obsidian, refuse to even post a statement regarding concerns that people are having. A post that states "We're sorry about the ending, we were forced to speed things up by our publisher, and there will not be a patch, since said publisher will not pay for it," while not being what we want to hear, at least shows members of this community that you CARE about what they think of your product. All your silence shows us is that you don't give a crap.

 

My 50 dollars are just 50 dollars, but the way things are now, you aren't getting them anymore.

 

Creston

 

Edit : Having said that, see the thread "petition to restore the ending". I will gladly pay you 20 dollars for fixing what was left out of this game.

[Jarx Xun]

I'll be waiting for the reviews for sure next time.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It depends on the questions being asked. Chris Avalone has posted on several innocuous threads but if your expecting some sort of admission of guilt or blaming of LA I wouldnt hold my breath because an answer would just lead to more questions..

 

I'm sure next time they will take great pains to remove any unused material though.

[Jarx Xun]

And all the bugs hopefully...

[Zilod]

Ok, I enjoyed KOTOR2, but the ending is really just very poor. I've seen all the evidence for the much expanded endings, and I can even understand that it's LucasArt's fault that those extras were cut, leading to the ending being as poor as it was. (and don't get me started on all the dialogue bugs / quest bugs etc.)

 

However, the fact that NO obsidian developer even seems to find two minutes of his/her time to post something about this on their OWN forum, while they are talking about KOTOR2 on a different forum, just leads me to believe that they have very little regard for the community and their paying fans.

 

Obsidian is currently working on two more games, NWN2 and Baldur's Gate 3. If rumor is to be believed, they are even working on KOTOR3. All of these games are in the hands of publishers that are well known for releasing unfinished products. (Ie, Atari/Infogrames and LA)

 

Knowing this, how many of you are going to be purchasing future Obsidian games? While the idea of a KOTOR3 fills me with joy, at the same time I don't think I'll be playing it if it's again done with the same engine, and will again be forced into the half finished product that KOTOR2 turned out to be. I understand that a publisher foots the bill, and has final say on what happens, but there actually ARE developers that will refuse to go along with such crap, that will refuse to let their good name be slandered by publishers who want to milk an extra two months of money out of their franchise.

 

I think, Obsidian, that you need to take a good long look at what happened to Troika, and think hard about where you are going to be taking your next games. Great games plus shoddy execution (plus unfinished endings) eventually lead to you being forced to sell your furniture in an auction.

 

I don't mean to be an ass about this, I just find it VERY distressing that ypu, Obsidian, refuse to even post a statement regarding concerns that people are having. A post that states "We're sorry about the ending, we were forced to speed things up by our publisher, and there will not be a patch, since said publisher will not pay for it," while not being what we want to hear, at least shows members of this community that you CARE about what they think of your product. All your silence shows us is that you don't give a crap.

 

My 50 dollars are just 50 dollars, but the way things are now, you aren't getting them anymore.

 

Creston

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't have any problem with devs not discussing this topic, it will really not change anything if they say "aaaa don't blame us, is LA fault, shame to LA, bad bad LA!"

It will be childish and useless, the game went like that and happy or not crying about what really happened will not improve it.

 

Maybe as you said they had to not care so much about LA pressing them, and to work on the game at least to the point that no missing plots where present, but consider also that Obsidian is a new company, this is their first game and maybe they had not enought "weight" or "courage" to oppose to the decision.

 

Also is true that is a bad thing to make a bad impressions on customers (and i don't think is the case as i really enjoyed the game), but is also bad to make a bad impression on publishers.

[Creston]

It depends on the questions being asked. Chris Avalone has posted on several innocuous threads but if your expecting some sort of admission of guilt or blaming of LA I wouldnt hold my breath because an answer would just lead to more questions..

 

I'm sure next time they will take great pains to remove any unused material though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Removing the unused material would not have made people feel any better about the plain shoddy ending, though, although there would not be as big a clamor for restoring it, obviously.

 

Actually, the fact that the unused material is still THERE mitigates matters somewhat for Obsidian, because we can all see that they had far better plans for the game than what eventually was released. Had they not put the stuff in there, we'd have all just said that their ending sucked, and that they were a mediocre developer. (which might explain why they left it in).

 

I'm not looking for an admission of guilt. All I'm looking for is some information, and an acknowledgement of the worries that people are having with regards to a patch / the bugs that are in the game.

 

Personally, I am lucky enough to have no technical bugs (apart from the game always loading in windowed mode, and my gamma going to hell upon exiting). But there are PLENTY of gameplay bugs in the game as well. Dialogue that leads nowhere, or loops. Other dialogue that happens way too quickly, or out of order. An entire section of swoop racing that's so bugged, you can't even win it. Etc.

These SHOULD be fixed, but if they are not, at least have the courage to come to your own forum and tell people that.

 

But hey, like I said, shrug, there are plenty of developers out there who will appreciate my 50 dollars for their next game.

 

Creston

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Oh its a 1000 times worse to piss off your publisher especially when they are LA or Atari (hasbro).

 

Plus bad mouthing your publishers make other publishers less likely to want to work with you since your going to shaft them if things go wrong.

[Fanboy24]

They aren't gonna dis LA, they like working, and I like game developers that like working

[NeverwinterKnight]

depends how the pc version gets treated. if they release a patch (or enough patches) that eliminates the majority of the issues, especially the major ones, promptly, then ill have no problem getting another obsidian game.

 

although from my personal experience, i had no major glitches in my play through of the xbox version. no lock ups, no slow downs, no freezing, no blackscreen, nothing other than the fact that force powers i never use anyways didnt work as they were supposed to. so if all their games provide me with the same gaming experience i had with kotor2 xbox, then id certainly buy any and all their games.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I had one crash in 3 and a half games. At that time boxy had been on for 15 hours so I chalked it up to heat frustration and turned it off. I also had the issue with the slaver scene not playing when using the airspeeder to travel around but walking around for a while corrected that.

 

PCs have so many variables that you really cant say that its the games fault because you just dont know what else someone is running or has in the background even virus and those sorts of things.

[Zilod]

depends how the pc version gets treated.  if they release a patch (or enough patches) that eliminates the majority of the issues, especially the major ones, promptly, then ill have no problem getting another obsidian game.

 

although from my personal experience, i had no major glitches in my play through of the xbox version.  no lock ups, no slow downs, no freezing, no blackscreen, nothing other than the fact that force powers i never use anyways didnt work as they were supposed to.  so if all their games provide me with the same gaming experience i had with kotor2 xbox, then id certainly buy any and all their games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll add to that i have the PC version (ATI card), the only real bug i noticed is when you start a swop race (you have to jump when you start or you will get stuck in midair)

 

I had 2-3 freezing so far, a thing that should not be happen but not the 1 crash every min that some people are experiencing.

 

I noticed no other problems, i think that if someone is noticing so many troubles is due to drivers or an unstable system.

[Althernai]

Knowing this, how many of you are going to be purchasing future Obsidian games?

 

Unless I learn that they've implemented the worst suggestions of D&D "rules" people or otherwise somehow horribly mangled the game, I'll probably buy NWN2. With everything else, I'll wait for reviews.

 

A post that states "We're sorry about the ending, we were forced to speed things up by our publisher, and there will not be a patch, since said publisher will not pay for it," while not being what we want to hear, at least shows members of this community that you CARE about what they think of your product.

 

Blaming the publisher is not always taken well by the fans, but it is always taken badly by the publisher. Do you really want to work with a company whose employees blame you when something goes wrong? Insulting publishers is borderline suicidal behavior for small developers. Don't expect them to do this.

 

Likewise, don't expect them to officially change the ending. Their programmers are probably working on something else now and they aren't going to shift resources to things they aren't paid for. Also, it isn't clear how such a change would get to the X-Box.

 

This reminds me of something. When BG2:ToB was published, there were also some people who thought the ending could use some improvement (though the complaints weren't anything near the magnitude you see here). So one of Bioware's designers and some fans made a mod that added various details, made sure that some plot related events actually happen and changed the ending to make it more challenging and added some roleplaying options to it. It wasn't official, but it was made by a creator of the original and, IMHO, was a lot more fun. I don't think such a thing will happen (either here or ever again in general), but it would be awesome if it did.

[Tanuvein]

If Obsidian spoke up against LucasArts, I'd be depressed at their stupidity while admiring their courage. Doing that would probably kill them as a company.

 

I don't regret KotOR II at all. Its one of the few games that trully pulled me completely in and started a frenzied gaming period. It was wonderful. They are the only company I'll buy a game from without waiting for reviews first (even though I really didn't like the first NWN, I understand that they are allowed to take it in their own direction. And looking at all the NWN mods and thinking of what could be done in an updated system? Its like sex with an ewok.)

[Aryanne]

Devs wont reply if there smart or else this forum will turn into a total flame fest.Ive seen it done on 2 games from Interplay before where the devs were just outright brutalized by the public for releasing probably 2 of the most buggiest games ever in history Descent to undermountain and star trek new worlds.Programmers used to come right into the forums calling the devs fing idiots for using that type of coding.

 

Besides that i will not buy another product from them.Like i said before people are watching what they do with NWN2.

[Whitemithrandir]

I assume all of you do some research before buying a game?... I assume none of you enjoy throwing away 50 bucks on a whim? saying you won't buy Ob's next game is just a reflection of total stubborness. Check the tech support forums a few days before NWN 2 release. Read some user reviews. Hound the boards for a few days. If it's good, buy it. If it's not, don't buy it.

 

Saying you won't or will buy their next game is like saying "Yankess lost to the Mets. Feck them. I'll never watch another Yankee game again.".

[Zilod]

Besides that i will not buy another product from them.Like i said before people are watching what they do with NWN2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ehi you proposed Kreia as NPC of the years and not going to buy other products?

You seemed happy very happy with the chars and generally to the game, what happened?

 

plz this don't want to be a flame, a personal attack or anything else, i'm just curious to know your motivations, because i had the impression you really liked the game.

 

I apologize from now if you feel to be flamed or personally attacked.

[Hundred Companions]

I read all reviews, previews, developer diaries and news, not to mention reviews by customers who played the XBox version before I bought the game.

 

Personally, apart from the Dantooine framerate issue (which I easily fixed), nothing about the game was all that bad. We all knew the graphics engine would be the same as K1, and let us all not forget that K1's engine was a revolution that made it the best RPG of the year.

 

I suggest rate the game as itself, and view it in relation to the storyline of A New Hope - Return of the Jedi. I can't believe that so many people lauded Battle Realms, and denounced the Wolf expansion just because it used the same graphics. To put it rashly, sometimes hypocrisy can know no bounds. It may be better to recall what shoddy graphics Tetris had, not to mention it's lack of any plot.

 

How many customers were clamouring for K2 to be released, and how many of them would complain if Obsidian delayed or even cancelled release due to disagreements with LA?

 

After all, as so many other enlightened posts have pointed out, this IS their first release. Let's give them a chance bfore we make any accusations.

 

HC

[Aryanne]

OH i loved kreia and she was the best thing in the game i thought(she has got to be one of the best supporting character roles i seen in years up to atris).But im not going to sit here and bitch about the problems i ran into either.Like alot of people feel so much undone,so much unsaid.I know the game was supposed to have an evil feel side to it and that was kinda a turn off for me.I want evil i can go play diablo2 lol thats evil as evil gets lol.Or a dark jedi for that matter.More freedom to to revisit planets but always the story was pushing pushing felt really linear to me.Really i let my 14 year old son start a flame thread on lucas arts forums and you know what i dont blame him.

 

Now back to my NWN dragons

[Zilod]

OH i loved kreia and she was the best thing in the game i thought(she has got to be one of the best supporting character roles i seen in years up to atris).But im not going to sit here and bitch about the problems i ran into either.Like alot of people feel so much undone,so much unsaid.I know the game was supposed to have an evil feel side to it and that was kinda a turn off for me.I want evil i can go play diablo2 lol thats evil as evil gets lol.Or a dark jedi for that matter.More freedom to to revisit planets but always the story was pushing pushing felt really linear to me.Really i let my 14 year old son start a flame thread on lucas arts forums and you know what i dont blame him.

 

Now back to my NWN dragons 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

thx for answer, was just curious

[Kalfear]

Depends on the game

 

If they make more KotOR games or RPGs in general, Ill happily purchase them.

 

But if they make more Rupublic Command stuff (FPS), I wont.

 

As I said, all depends on what they making.

 

Only company I use to say I wouldnt buy from is Turbine, but even there I make break my own rule and try Dungeons and Dragons online.

 

Other then that, I wont play new releases from SOE (online games). Just learned over the years to wait a year so your not paying for a beta product.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Of course everyone will buy Kotor 3. What other game series has engaging stories and characters to rival a good movie? For all Kotor 2's faults (mainly with the ending, but also too much dialogue that doesn't really reflect where you and the NPCs are in terms of alignment), I can't imagine what would persuade me not to buy Kotor 3. Kotor 2 was so nearly so much better, as the cut ending thread shows.

[Trom]

Of course everyone will buy Kotor 3.  What other game series has engaging stories and characters to rival a good movie?  For all Kotor 2's faults (mainly with the ending, but also too much dialogue that doesn't really reflect where you and the NPCs are in terms of alignment), I can't imagine what would persuade me not to buy Kotor 3.  Kotor 2 was so nearly so much better, as the cut ending thread shows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree, Steve. But my purpose for criticizing the game is hopefully whoever develops K3 might see all this controversy and avoid the big mistake that was made with this game, namely in order to get the XBox game out by Christmas and confronted with a last minute technical glitch they had to decide missing the ship date or truncating the endgame. I can't believe after all the work the programmers put into that endgame that they were happy in truncating it which also had the side-effect in them having to leave in all those inexplicable routines.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I hope you're right, and the Kotor 3 developers will probably get a better deal from LucasArts, if the rumours are to be believed and the game engine will be completely revamped. I guess the fact that Kotor 2 was using the same technology as Kotor 1 made it hard for Obsidian to say they needed more time.

 

By the way, I hope LucasArts doesn't take too much comfort from my saying I'd buy Kotor 3 no matter what. Not everyone is as forgiving as I am, and some of the posts on this forum suggest that people are very angry indeed. Mediocre plots and rushed releases destroyed the Ultima series, once the best CRPGs out there.

[Funks]

Baldur's Gate 3? groan.

 

Please don't. It's fine the way it is. don't ruin it. ESPECIALLY if it's not Bioware. The story finished okay? And it was great, but now It's over.

[Matt7895]

I hated the character of Kreia. The best character in KOTOR2 was probably Atton. And I *will* buy NWN2, firstly because I loved Bioware's NWN and its expansions, and also because I am an RPG fan in general. KOTOR2 was a good game, just needed more explanation to the storyline and a better ending.