Things I liked about TSL

[Volourn]

"I never got the impression she hated anyone but herself. She truly loved the player for his strength and how he survived without the force. I also got the impression she didn't really looks down on many people (other than Atton), she simply saw them as possible obstacles in the way of the Exiles growth. She was motherly to him, trying to teach him how to be what she considered the best person possible. "

 

O M G

 

 

"Oh thats obvious but what KOTOR II shows is there are different degrees to the darkside. Malak was the typical crush everything without thought type not very deep and about as subtle as a brick."

 

O M G

 

 

Both of you need help.

 

 

a) Kreia wasn't subtle. From the time she 'faked' her death on Peragus I knew she was amanipulative witch. She wasn't subtle, and she was very much about crushing others. She *enjoyed* controlling people. Just take the scene where she is having fun with Atton. She enjoyed causing him pain. You also she this in every act she does.

 

b) She is Hate Incarnate. tm. She is the same as Malak. Dark, evil, shallow. Kreia just has a better way with words - not to mention her old crone shape is bound to make others not fear her 'til its too late.

 

Pretty darn villain; but there was nothing 'light side' or even 'neutral' about her.

 

And, she loathed the PC. Loathed him. What you call 'testing'; I call 'manipulation'. What you call 'loving'; I calll 'abusing'.

[NeverwinterKnight]

And, she loathed the PC. Loathed him. What you call 'testing'; I call 'manipulation'.  What you call 'loving'; I calll 'abusing'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

actually, she doesnt. she saw the exile as her vindication and thus she wanted the exile to be powerful to prove to "those who cast her out" that her teachings werent a failure.

 

not sure if youve read it, but its much like "traitor" and vergere.

[Volourn]

No, she does.

 

If that were true, she would have simply taught you. She wouldn't have NEEDED to lie, manipulate, threaten, cajole, and anything else she could do to twist you into soemthing you aren't.

 

She loathes the PC. Her words of love are as hollow as a husband (or wife) who tells their spouse the day after they beat them up that they love them.

 

R00fles!

 

And, thsoe who get suckered in by her are like the abused spouses who keep going back for more.

 

D0uble R00fles!

[Meshugger]

No, she does.

 

If that were true, she would have simply taught you. She wouldn't have NEEDED to lie, manipulate, threaten, cajole, and anything else she could do to twist you into soemthing you aren't.

 

She loathes the PC. Her words of love are as hollow as a husband (or wife) who tells their spouse the day after they beat them up that they love them.

 

R00fles!

 

And, thsoe who get suckered in by her are like the abused spouses who keep going back for more.

 

D0uble R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey there, are you saying that can't beat up your wife/husband because you love them too much?

[Volourn]

Yes.

[roflolocopter]

And, she loathed the PC. Loathed him. What you call 'testing'; I call 'manipulation'. What you call 'loving'; I calll 'abusing

 

She saves your life on a number of occasions and essentialy helps you become reconected with the force so you do not know her intensions.

 

While we see she is manipulating behind the scenes, and sometimes quite blatantly infront of the exile's eyes, she has protected and advised the Exile successfuly up to a point. We do not know that she was the one who tiped off the Sith in order to use you as bait and a catalyst for her revenge, untill the Jedi council meeting.

 

Whatever her intensions, she has helped you at every turn, niether forcing you into a path of dark or light, she has been much more help to you than the Jedi council, whom she saves you from.

 

This and her manipulations make her interesting. You, as the Exile, owe her a lot; she has reconected you with the force, saved the republic and killed off the Sith/established you as top sith dude.

 

If you cannot see her subtleties, in that the character of the Exile would not know how or why he/she was being manipulated (the exile does not know Kreia is faking her death, bringing back some of his enemies and blackmailing Atton), then it is you who has the problem.

 

You sound like someone who would assume that Iago's manipulations in Othelo should be obvious to the other characters because he keeps giving asides intended for the audience.

[Meshugger]

Yes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How Jedi of you (i have twisted kind of humor, nevermind that).

 

But yes, Kreia and Malak are evil to the bone if you want to measure their evilness(is that even a word?). However, i like Kreia manupilation tactics alot more.

[Tanuvein]

And, she loathed the PC. Loathed him. What you call 'testing'; I call 'manipulation'. What you call 'loving'; I calll 'abusing

 

She saves your life on a number of occasions and essentialy helps you become reconected with the force so you do not know her intensions.

 

While we see she is manipulating behind the scenes, and sometimes quite blatantly infront of the exile's eyes, she has protected and advised the Exile successfuly up to a point. We do not know that she was the one who tiped off the Sith in order to use you as bait and a catalyst for her revenge, untill the Jedi council meeting.

 

Whatever her intensions, she has helped you at every turn, niether forcing you into a path of dark or light, she has been much more help to you than the Jedi council, whom she saves you from.

 

This and her manipulations make her interesting. You, as the Exile, owe her a lot; she has reconected you with the force, saved the republic and killed off the Sith/established you as top sith dude.

 

If you cannot see her subtleties, in that the character of the Exile would not know how or why he/she was being manipulated (the exile does not know Kreia is faking her death, bringing back some of his enemies and blackmailing Atton), then it is you who has the problem.

 

You sound like someone who would assume that Iago's manipulations in Othelo should be obvious to the other characters because he keeps giving asides intended for the audience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My thoughts exactly.

[NeverwinterKnight]

No, she does.

 

If that were true, she would have simply taught you. She wouldn't have NEEDED to lie, manipulate, threaten, cajole, and anything else she could do to twist you into soemthing you aren't.

 

She loathes the PC. Her words of love are as hollow as a husband (or wife) who tells their spouse the day after they beat them up that they love them.

 

R00fles!

 

And, thsoe who get suckered in by her are like the abused spouses who keep going back for more.

 

D0uble R00fles!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

then that means yoda loathed luke skywalker, what with putting him through the paces to train him as well.

 

both wanted their "student" to become as powerful in the force as their potential was, but the only difference is that yoda (the jedi) did so in a more "kind" way while kreia (the sith) did so by what makes a sith a sith, ie. manipulation.

 

if she loathed you, she would have killed you any of those moments she had a chance. she saved your life a couple of times because she didnt want you dead.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I'm reminded of Qui Gon and his view of Anakin bringing balance to the force. Which in fact he does although probably not in the way Qui Gon intended. By the time Anakin is done there are two Sith (him and plapy) and two Jedi Ben and Yoda.

 

Kreia was right about many things. It is conflict that makes us strong and isolation that weakens us. Which is why the exile was pushed towards conflict after conflict.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

then that means yoda loathed luke skywalker, what with putting him through the paces to train him as well.

 

both wanted their "student" to become as powerful in the force as their potential was, but the only difference is that yoda (the jedi) did so in a more "kind" way while kreia (the sith) did so by what makes a sith a sith, ie. manipulation.

 

if she loathed you, she would have killed you any of those moments she had a chance.  she saved your life a couple of times because she didnt want you dead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Through her manipulations she pretty much allows you to train yourself. She also strips away a lot of the mystery and quasi religious Jedi teachings. She trains you but in a way that dosnt make you reliant on her as a Padawan is to their master. Or even subserviant to her as a Sith is to theirs. In that respect her training of you is unique she simply points you in the right direction (or manipulates events to put you in the right place at the right time).

 

Like when you become your prestige class at first its like HUH ? Then it just makes sense as all you really needed was to relaise your potential. Much like when you awaken the other force users. Only in your case you very much set them on their path too, they dont really have much choice in the matter.

[Aegis]

Personally, I always thought that Kreia was intended as the neutral character, not very fond of either jedi or sith (I've recently read some things that makes me doubt that a bit, though). She said a lot to indicate that she didn't care for the sith philosophy either, but unfortunately she acted more evil than good. I think they should've given her more neutral morals. From what I've understood, her goals were not really evil. She was afraid of the force, or rather the control it had over people (and every living thing), and wanted to free herself from it. You know, create her own destiny rather than something that she, as she said, perceived as a sentient being. That's where the exile comes in, as (s)he had managed to sever him/her-self completely from the force. (S)he use the force, the force doesn't use him/her.

 

And I don't think she loved the exile as a person, but rather what the exile represented; the possibility of freeing yourself from your destiny. Sort of like a mother, living through her children by making them enter pageants or stuff like that. The mother might think she does it for the child, but it's really just for her. Kreia's not evil, just hollow. She doesn't want control or make bad things happen, but she doesn't want to save anyone from anything either. She simply doesn't care (then again, some people does consider apathy evil, so I guess it's all relative).

 

Then again, perhaps it's just wishful thinking from my side. It would be refreshing to see a bad guy that is not actually bad. I've studied philosophy and Kreia's morals is actually quite like my view on good and evil; somewhat simplified that no action is entierly good or evil and that neither can exist without the other. While I don't necessarily agree with her goal and her way to reach it (if I understood it correctly), at least it's something I can understand.

[jaguars4ever]

Incidently, I know that Kreia had nothing but disdain for your fellow party members, but did any of your party actually like her?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Incidently, I know that Kreia had nothing but disdain for your fellow party members, but did any of your party actually like her?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dont think so. Some dont even know she is there for a while.

 

A couple have confrontations with her. Her and Atton is interesting. Bao Dur will say something if you start to fall as will the disciple.

[jaguars4ever]

On my first playthrough I kept in her in my team until I got off Telos 'cause the XP bonus sounded pretty sweet at the time. But the bitch wouldn't stop nagging, so I finally dumped her in the Ebon Hawk. Well guess what? The bitch starts nagging me via telepathy! I mean, FFS...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

On my first playthrough I kept in her in my team until I got off Telos 'cause the XP bonus sounded pretty sweet at the time.  But the bitch wouldn't stop nagging, so I finally dumped her in the Ebon Hawk.  Well guess what? The bitch starts nagging me via telepathy! I mean, FFS...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She's interesting to have around. If you play DS she lectures you every time you murder someone. It's not the fact that you murdered them that bothers her, but that you did it for no real purpose. If your LS she lectures you for helping people and not getting a reward.

(With her in the party constantly I was level 16 before the first real planet so I think the mentor ability makes a difference I also like not having to use buff spells (because Im lazy) she does all the work and the force bond gives them to me anyway).

 

Having to visit her in her "chambers" reminded me a lot of visiting the headmistress. Her voice actress did an incredible job one of the top VO's in any game I have played.

[DesertHawk]

I remember on my first playthrough as a female Lightside Consular/Jedi Master, Kreia says that she loved my character, would have done anything to perserve her (including destroy the galaxy, which made me quirk my eyebrow because she 'loathes the force' - there is no life without the force, Bastie says at once point in K1. . .Kreia is intent on preserving life but will destroy it for you. Now that's love.

 

I loved how people would run up to my darksider and go "Is there a plague going around?" That made me laugh when the game felt dark and dreary.

 

On Kreia - she's probably the strangest person in a game I've seen. She's not good, not evil. She adopts what role needs to be adopted for the good of all. She respects the choice the man character makes, even if she is manipulating you to make her way go. But she's manipulating you to make you stronger. Gaah, evil confusing old woman!

 

As much as I grew to hate Kreia, I did realize she had a point. It's the struggles in life that gives life flavor, helps us overcome what needs to be overcomed. KOTOR2 isn't just about the Master/Apprentice relationship like we were told it would be about. The story runs much deeper than that.

 

On a final note, I still abhor Kreia. Evil, evil, evil manipulative witch.

[jaguars4ever]

If your LS she lectures you for helping people and not getting a reward.

Helping people is the reward.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I remember on my first playthrough as a female Lightside Consular/Jedi Master, Kreia says that she loved my character, would have done anything to perserve her (including destroy the galaxy, which made me quirk my eyebrow because she 'loathes the force' - there is no life without the force, Bastie says at once point in K1. . .Kreia is intent on preserving life but will destroy it for you. Now that's love.

 

I loved how people would run up to my darksider and go "Is there a plague going around?" That made me laugh when the game felt dark and dreary.

 

On Kreia - she's probably the strangest person in a game I've seen. She's not good, not evil. She adopts what role needs to be adopted for the good of all. She respects the choice the man character makes, even if she is manipulating you to make her way go. But she's manipulating you to make you stronger. Gaah, evil confusing old woman!

 

As much as I grew to hate Kreia, I did realize she had a point. It's the struggles in life that gives life flavor, helps us overcome what needs to be overcomed. KOTOR2 isn't just about the Master/Apprentice relationship like we were told it would be about. The story runs much deeper than that.

 

On a final note, I still abhor Kreia. Evil, evil, evil manipulative witch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Being called "a random cruelty generator" by HK was priceless. It's not often you get warm fuzzies playing a bad guy.

 

She's Revel in a Jedi robe

 

Its interesting because it's exactly what the Jedi council and Bastila were doing to you in KOTOR.. Only in KOTOR they were doing it for their own ends rather than because they wanted you to become stronger.

[DesertHawk]

I kept expecting Kreia to say "bombadore!" or whatever Ravel Puzzlewell says.

 

Ah, PS:T. How we love you.

[Ace]

I half expected Kreia to die 3/4ths through the game (like Ravel), find out that Nihilus is the force that was ripped from you and he cannot leave Malachor V for long periods of time so you must confront him there, and Atris is Darth Traya

 

Fortunately, the plot isn't exactly like PS:T