Planescape

[mr insomniac]

^ Went through the same kinda feeling when I replayed Torment for the first time. Took almost a month to really get into it again, but once I did all was good. Also, this was before I discovered Infinity Explorer, so I was still learning new things all on my own (or from the forum discussions) up until the fourth or fifth time I replayed it. The subsequent 15 times were just for fun... really.

[Anomas Analor Kamath]

Nah, I exaggerated. However, I do think he may have skimmed through some parts of the game, and probably didn't bother to initiate dialogue with the NPCs.

 

 

I did talk exstensively with the PCs repeated times just to find out if I could trigger more chatting. What I got our of Morte was:

 

 

 

He was a wise man who was put on the pillar of skulls for withholding information that led to the death of someone. Your earlier incarnation "the practical one" freed Morte to get info from him but as Morte was removed from the pillar he forgot everything but TNO still let him hang around. What doesnt add up is Mortes guilt for withholding info that led to TNOs death- he didnt! The original TNO was killed by shadows(another thing that doesnt add up, if he hadnt died yet how come the shadows were after him?) in the planes, probably before Morte was even born.

 

naturally I also got the "what about the extra line on my back?" conversation

 

 

 

 

Now Im pretty shure I milked everything I could out of my NPCs and I still didnt feel as close to them as with my NPCs in BG or KoTOR, ad Im one gets really invovled in games.

 

 

oh, and how far can one go with Annah? I got as far as kissing her so she turn red hot.

 

I'm 'raise dead'ing the topic for a single reason: archiving.

 

Just so people who read those foruns daily or for someones who accidentaly stumbles upon them while on the net [like me], here goes the chant:

 

The first incarnation wasn't killed by shades. It was a lie aimed at hiding his true identity.

He knew that, if you were in the fortress, you obviously had talked to Ravel, and if that was the case, you most likely would know about he being killed first by her hands.

In fact that's somewhat clear, considering the nature of the answer. He seems reflective and emotional about everything he says, but when you ask about his life and death, he has his answers on the tip-of-the-tongue, like previously planned. Superb writing from the authors

 

And yes, that's as far as you go with Annah. But Grace's behavior and her locked diary, as well as her dialogue after you've merged with TTO suggests she also loves you. The first is socially troubled, the second is downright reserved and silent about her feelings. That doesn't mean there isn't whole volcanoes of emotion there.

 

I just wished sometimes things were more plain. I mean, as computer gamers, we're mostly already socially challenged, we don't need every single companion and character in the games suffering from the same problems. It would be a relief for something different sometimes

[Sand]

PST is the second best CRPG of all time. Only Fallout 1 is better, and that is just by a margin.

[jaguars4ever]

Holy necropost, Batman!

[Sand]

I didn't even notice. Silly me. I think I need to get some sleep before posting.

[jaguars4ever]

Nah, don't worry visc. Technically, it was AAK who did the dirty deed. That absolves us from any culpability by default...except for Nick. He killed old friend Llyr.

 

But in terms of atmosphere, I'd rate FO1, PS:T, VM:B, & MotB as the best. In that order.

 

For gameplay, I'd say FO1, JE, and KotOR.

 

And for writing, let's see: PS:T, BG2, & K2.

 

Oh yeah, and music: PS:T, MotB, IWD1, & KotOR.

 

[Nick_i_am]

I just wished sometimes things were more plain. I mean, as computer gamers, we're mostly already socially challenged, we don't need every single companion and character in the games suffering from the same problems. It would be a relief for something different sometimes

 

That pretty much is, when you compare to every other CRPG romance i've ever experianced. For example, Druid chick in BG2 started hitting me up 5 minutes after I laughed at her dead husbands corpse, while NWN2s druid chick actually responded positively to me being a lecherous idiot. In Fallout 2 I was able to marry either a total slag or a dude, though, admitedly, this was as much for humours sake as anything else.

However, all too often it feels like the *standard* is to appeal to the lonely lonely 16 year old and the Annah crap was about as close as i've ever seen to actually interesting or realistic romantic interaction in a computer game, which is a medium that just seems incapable of dealing with sex in any kind of subtle or intelligent way.

 

CRPGs arn't the only offenders by a long shot either, but they SHOULD be the only genre which actually does this crap well.

 

To this end, i'd say that TNOs romantic interactions with Annah and Grace, both in terms of what's said and what's not said are very much 'somthing different' from what we normally see in VIDYA GAEMS LOL.

 

Or can someone name me a video game romance or relationship (any, even if it doesn't invole the player character) that is handled with any kind of real subtly or maturity?

 

EDIT: Lies, he walked into a door. Very hard and repeatedly.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Nick_i_am

[Pidesco]

Or can someone name me a video game romance or relationship (any, even if it doesn't invole the player character) that is handled with any kind of real subtly or maturity?

 

 

As Sawyer might tell you, there's always Full Throttle.

[mkreku]

The brothel scene in Gothic 2. Very subtle and mature.

[Anomas Analor Kamath]

Or can someone name me a video game romance or relationship (any, even if it doesn't invole the player character) that is handled with any kind of real subtly or maturity?

 

 

As Sawyer might tell you, there's always Full Throttle.

 

Maybe so, but that was incredibly short-lasting. And the game wasn't the longest or deepest either.

 

The final truth is, games are incapable of showing mature, long lasting relationships. Where you constantly are with, or just lay down, have a nice conversation, or just sex with your partner. Fu**, i want to have a real in-game wife/husband.

[Nick_i_am]

As Sawyer might tell you, there's always Full Throttle.

 

Hey, good point. Not really a 'relationship' since it came down to some sexual tension followed by some awkwardness, then the main character driving off into the sunset. But it felt realistic, well done, subtle and belivable, based on the personalities of the characters. Sure, the game was short and not particually deep, but neither was the relationship, which made it all the better.

 

I'd take stuff like that over DON'T LEAVE ME SQUALL! crap any day of the week that ends in y.

[Tale]

Or can someone name me a video game romance or relationship (any, even if it doesn't invole the player character) that is handled with any kind of real subtly or maturity?

 

 

As Sawyer might tell you, there's always Full Throttle.

 

Maybe so, but that was incredibly short-lasting. And the game wasn't the longest or deepest either.

 

The final truth is, games are incapable of showing mature, long lasting relationships. Where you constantly are with, or just lay down, have a nice conversation, or just sex with your partner. Fu**, i want to have a real in-game wife/husband.

The game doesn't have to show a long lasting relationship to show a mature one.

[samm]

Thank you, jaguars4ever, for absolving people for necro-posting

 

So, here goes:

MOTB

has the one and only "romance" that I feel was well done (from a nowadays perspective. I liked the dialogues with Annah, and the beginning part of jaheira's bg2 romance felt believable at that time). In MOTB it's logical from past events, and it's never forced upon you - it does matter, how you interacted with the person before, and it's totally avoidable if you don't want it. Very good job on this one.

 

 

That said, my first playthrough of PS: T is and probably will remain the most memorable, enjoyable gaming experience I've had. Even after reading the "vision" behind it, that seemd kind of immature ("babes, and even more babes"...)

Edited October 24, 2007 by samm

[Anomas Analor Kamath]

Or can someone name me a video game romance or relationship (any, even if it doesn't invole the player character) that is handled with any kind of real subtly or maturity?

 

 

As Sawyer might tell you, there's always Full Throttle.

 

Maybe so, but that was incredibly short-lasting. And the game wasn't the longest or deepest either.

 

The final truth is, games are incapable of showing mature, long lasting relationships. Where you constantly are with, or just lay down, have a nice conversation, or just sex with your partner. Fu**, i want to have a real in-game wife/husband.

The game doesn't have to show a long lasting relationship to show a mature one.

 

I was talking about a game that had both, not that one depends on the other. Full throttle did a great job at this, but i was expecting something like it in rpgs, where you play over, at least, 20 hours...

[Tale]

I would never expect anything like how you describe a relationship in an RPG. That would be the most boring RPG of all time. One where your girlfriend complains that you spend too much time killing Orcs and not enough time listening to her complain about ridiculous crap. Yeah, I want to spend 6 hours doing that.

[mkreku]

Yeah, a RPG can't weigh that **** up with boobs and dirty, kinky sex!

[Anomas Analor Kamath]

I would never expect anything like how you describe a relationship in an RPG. That would be the most boring RPG of all time. One where your girlfriend complains that you spend too much time killing Orcs and not enough time listening to her complain about ridiculous crap. Yeah, I want to spend 6 hours doing that.

 

You... dont have any idea what a relatioship is, do you?

[Tale]

I would never expect anything like how you describe a relationship in an RPG. That would be the most boring RPG of all time. One where your girlfriend complains that you spend too much time killing Orcs and not enough time listening to her complain about ridiculous crap. Yeah, I want to spend 6 hours doing that.

 

You... dont have any idea what a relatioship is, do you?

I know what it's not. And it's not killing orcs!

 

Seriously though, laying down and having a nice conversation has no place in anything but ultra niche games.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Tale

[Sand]

What if you are laying down on a pile of orc corpses?

[Tale]

What if you are laying down on a pile of orc corpses?

And conversing over the best way to kill Orcs?

 

Y'know... this idea has merit.

[Pidesco]

Actually she'll probably be going at you, because the way you killed those orcs shows you have no respect for her.

[Tale]

Does this chainmail make me look fat?

[Musopticon?]

(Yes.)

[Tale]

(Yes.)

NPC Girlfriend [influence Gain: +6]

[Nick_i_am]

I would never expect anything like how you describe a relationship in an RPG. That would be the most boring RPG of all time. One where your girlfriend complains that you spend too much time killing Orcs and not enough time listening to her complain about ridiculous crap. Yeah, I want to spend 6 hours doing that.

 

You... dont have any idea what a relatioship is, do you?

 

Irony bonus.