elkston Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 2and2is5 said: Green Knight asked about other games to play rather than PS:T. That's the problem I'm having. It seems there are no developers out there making games with a great story other than Obsidian and Bioware. We had Fallout and PS:T, we had BG and IWD, then we had KOTOR. But now what? Fable could have been soooo much more. Ninja Gaiden was (for me) the perfect game, except that the story sucked. I remember liking Prince of Persia:Sands of Time (haven't played Warrior Within yet), but it wasn't quite there. So what can we do but hold the stories built by the people at Bioware and Obsidian as the gold standard? What else is there? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ahem.... ummm.. Gothic ? Gothic 2?
Ivan the Terrible Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Phosphor said: froomite said: Is he supposed to be wandering in the Abyss for ever or something? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Essentially that's exactly it. As Green Knight points out, The Nameless One is condemned to fight in the Blood War which is a nice equivalent to burning in Hell. Reveal hidden contents As you find out in the game, TNO has been running from his fate, knowing full well that if he dies, he will have to fight in the Blood War, and nobody really wants to do that. He's been trying for lifetimes to escape this fate, but eventually realises there is no escape and ultimately comes to face the reality and stop running. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Reveal hidden contents There's also an element of redemption and absolute selflessness in it if you're of good alignment. The planes have suffered for centuries because of you; your perpetual returns from the dead alone must have cost thousands upon thousands of lives. Your evil incarnations have probably cost thousands more. In the end, you willingly embrace death and eternal torment for the good of the planes. There is no greater reward waiting for your kindness. Ever. It's the ultimate act of selflessness, throwing away any hope of personal gratification for the good of all. One of my favorite game endings of all time, and certainly the most gutsy. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
Ivan the Terrible Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 elkston said: Let it be known -- plenty of "intelligent" gamers do not think Planescape is the best thing since sliced bread. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Plenty of "intelligent" gamers are also Communists. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
deganawida Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 AlanC9 said: GreenKnight said: Oh, I would not want this ... but ... now that you mention it: most CRPGs have you starting as an amnesiac. That, or you start as the village farmboy who's sister gets abducted by the same sinister orcs that have just burnt down your village while you were out in the fields. But then, you will also discover that you are not a farmboy, but, in reality, the son of the gods ... Ah, yes... the eternal problem of how to make things personal for the PC without pre-determining the character. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It also has the advantage of introducing the player to a world where they don't know the rules, histories, and peoples. That's why it's such a fantasy staple, and is commonly used in fantasy novels. After all, most players/readers, upon entering a strange new world, will more easily identify with a character who knows little to nothing about the world around him. Thus, when the PC/protagonist discovers a truth about the world, so does the player/reader, creating an emotional bond that carries the player/reader through the rest of the game/novels. The only game that I have played where this formula was successfully broken was KotOR2. I found KotOR2's development of the character and his backstory ingenious, and actually found myself more invested in the Exile than any many other PCs/protagonists.
Llyranor Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Ivan the Terrible said: Phosphor said: froomite said: Is he supposed to be wandering in the Abyss for ever or something? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Essentially that's exactly it. As Green Knight points out, The Nameless One is condemned to fight in the Blood War which is a nice equivalent to burning in Hell. Reveal hidden contents As you find out in the game, TNO has been running from his fate, knowing full well that if he dies, he will have to fight in the Blood War, and nobody really wants to do that. He's been trying for lifetimes to escape this fate, but eventually realises there is no escape and ultimately comes to face the reality and stop running. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Reveal hidden contents There's also an element of redemption and absolute selflessness in it if you're of good alignment. The planes have suffered for centuries because of you; your perpetual returns from the dead alone must have cost thousands upon thousands of lives. Your evil incarnations have probably cost thousands more. In the end, you willingly embrace death and eternal torment for the good of the planes. There is no greater reward waiting for your kindness. Ever. It's the ultimate act of selflessness, throwing away any hope of personal gratification for the good of all. One of my favorite game endings of all time, and certainly the most gutsy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup. PST's ending was simply beautiful. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
deganawida Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Ivan the Terrible said: Reveal hidden contents There's also an element of redemption and absolute selflessness in it if you're of good alignment. The planes have suffered for centuries because of you; your perpetual returns from the dead alone must have cost thousands upon thousands of lives. Your evil incarnations have probably cost thousands more. In the end, you willingly embrace death and eternal torment for the good of the planes. There is no greater reward waiting for your kindness. Ever. It's the ultimate act of selflessness, throwing away any hope of personal gratification for the good of all. One of my favorite game endings of all time, and certainly the most gutsy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Reveal hidden contents Yeah, I picked up on that as well when I went through the game (played good character many times, have never been able to do evil characters). Ps:T, in its ending, nailed something that to me has been ignored by CRPGs for far too long: doing good requires sacrifice. Too often the PC of a CRPG gets better rewards and more acclaim for doing good than for acting in own self-interest or acting evilly. In the real world, this just doesn't happen. How much money did Mother Teresa make for herself by helping the plight of the Untouchables and poor in India? How many people remember the names, or even the number, of firefighters, police, and PA workers who died on 9/11 as they tried to rescue those trapped in the Twin Towers? Sure, people sometimes hold such individuals up as ideals, or as heroes, but that turns out more often than not to be some lonely statue or pure lip-service. Torment recognized that in having a good TNO willingly damn himself for all eternity in order to save others and pay for sins committed by previous incarnations. In doing that, I feel that he became the first true hero of the CRPG world.
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Not even a fraction as moving as having to kill Flammie.. Possibly the saddest moment ever in a game. Hades_One said: I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback]
Azure79 Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Damn you people! You made me install PST again! Well, actually it's installing now. Sigh. I'll try to control myself and not get lost for hours in the game. I'm secretly very happy. :D
213374U Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Sounds boring. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
kirottu Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 213374U said: Sounds boring. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You can always try the evil path if that This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
GreenKnight Posted February 3, 2005 Posted February 3, 2005 Ah! Gothic ... yes, I have never tried it. But it sounds like playing Gothic was a good idea ... thank you for the tip. ... and although I don't like to play the "Evil Way" in PS: T, I have to admit that sending a certain spark back to the Plane of Fire (instead of killing him) is a great moment.
mEtaLL1x Posted February 4, 2005 Posted February 4, 2005 Masterpiece... Although you misspeled the subj name: I thought you're refering to the whole setting, not only ot the game. I really liked some NPCs and the great story, and some REALLY FRIGGIN GENIUSLY MADE dialogs!
Dranoel Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 Phosphor said: Essentially that's exactly it. As Green Knight points out, The Nameless One is condemned to fight in the Blood War which is a nice equivalent to burning in Hell. Reveal hidden contents As you find out in the game, TNO has been running from his fate, knowing full well that if he dies, he will have to fight in the Blood War, and nobody really wants to do that. He's been trying for lifetimes to escape this fate, but eventually realises there is no escape and ultimately comes to face the reality and stop running. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's been a while but i got the impression that the TNO had fought in the Blood War as a full time mercenary before. Speaking to the Abishai (in the pub - was it called the Burning Man?) and the tutor in the hall of sensates gave me the distinct impression he had already been heavily involved! Is there some way of improvng the graphical quality - bumping the game to 1024x768 like in IWD2? I tried to play again recently - got as far as Pharod and had to give up cos of the graphics.
Azure79 Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 I always thought Planescape had excellent graphics, even today. They fit the atmosphere of the game.
mkreku Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 Azure79 said: I always thought Planescape had excellent graphics, even today. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How's that for fanboyism? Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
kirottu Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 mkreku said: Azure79 said: I always thought Planescape had excellent graphics, even today. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How's that for fanboyism? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Background is very good looking and the characters don This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
mEtaLL1x Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 Pre-rendered backgrounds still rule. For instance, compare Torment/BG2 with NWN (in terms of gfx): NWN, of course, has much better character models, effects and stuff, but its landscapes S-U-C-K so hard!!! Looking the same everywhere, nothing beautiful at all. While every BG2 or Torment location is a piece of art.
Volourn Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 Um.. They're all 'pieces of art'. Some are just better pieces of art. <> DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
~Di Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 I'm a PS:T fan. Just reinstalled it and played it again last month. For me it survived the test of time beautifully. I played it start to finish, reveling in the depth of companions surrounding me, and still pulled along by a story rich enough to hold my interest although I had "read" it many times before. PS:T may not be everyone's cup of java, but it is nonetheless a magnificent and unique game. One thing PS:T did that no other game has ever done (except BG2, and then not nearly as well, I'm afraid) is to give me companions so very real that I actually had a visceral reaction to them, and to the things that happened to them throughout the game. (Nordom was my favorite; yes, it was time-consuming to get him... but oh, so worth it!) Even today, with a top-of-the-line computer and games with eye candy that can take my breath away, I go back to the older games that held my interest through story and intrigue rather than just "look at that!" graphics which, face it folks, do grow old very quickly. Sadly graphics are it for games nowadays. Fancy graphics, and speed. Everything else is secondary. And it shows.
mEtaLL1x Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 Quote Sadly graphics are it for games nowadays. Fancy graphics, and speed. Everything else is secondary. And it shows. Too true... But there are some really notable exceptions.
zer"0" Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 PS:T was a great experience... your allies (Morte, Grace, etc) alone made it worthwhile. I also like the way you could *interact* with the world based on stat checks through dialogue options. KOTOR too was a great adventure. *HK-47:"Yes, meatba... master..."* I am playing Vampire: Bloodlines atm and I think its very good. Though not on the level of either KOTOR or PS:T.
GreenKnight Posted February 6, 2005 Posted February 6, 2005 Well, Dranoel: No, it's impossible to "improve" the graphics of PS: T. I don't mind that, though ... ... and yes, The Nameless One seems to have fought in the Blood War before ... many times, in many lives, perhaps ... and his companions, maybe, too: we never get to know exactly ... ... with PS: T everything is just impression, dream, and a vague idea of what past may have been, and what the Planes' present is. Who needs fancy graphics in that?
mEtaLL1x Posted February 7, 2005 Posted February 7, 2005 Torment's graphics are sure stylish and unique as hell. Especially the mortuary...... very gripping...
Musopticon? Posted February 7, 2005 Posted February 7, 2005 I love PS:T too much to ever play it againg. I don't want to find any errors, wich is bound to happen with several playtroughs. I'm too much a fanboy kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. Expand So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
alternative_genius Posted February 7, 2005 Posted February 7, 2005 Musopticon? said: I love PS:T too much to ever play it againg. I don't want to find any errors, wich is bound to happen with several playtroughs. I'm too much a fanboy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Playing it myself at the moment(upto the dead nations so far) and it is as absolutely sublime as it was the first, second, third and fourth time through and every time after that. Don't be afraid, go get your copy out again and play through at least once more for old times sake. Can't you hear its siren-like voice calling to you begging you to experience quite possibly the greatest storyline in a computer game ever. :D
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