big issue

[jaguars4ever]

Given the level of challenge, or lack of in this case, I personally found item creation to be more gratifying than the combat itself. :ph34r:

[Gromnir]

Given the level of challenge, or lack of in this case, I personally found item creation to be more gratifying than the combat itself.  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

did combat actually seem easier than it were in kotor? and we didn't think that were possible. heck, we didn't even cheat ourself up to level 50 to complete the game.

 

oh well.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[NeverwinterKnight]

did combat actually seem easier than it were in kotor?  and we didn't think that were possible. heck, we didn't even cheat ourself up to level 50 to complete the game.

 

oh well.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i thought it was. as embarrassing as it may be to admit, i actually died a few times in kotor1, including my first encounter with malak.

 

the closest i came to dying was against

that beast on malachor v, just before you reach the academy

, and even then it was just a medpac useage and i was good to go. other than that, i never died or even came close to dying.

[Epiphany]

heck, we didn't even cheat ourself up to level 50 to complete the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Everytime you post about this, I keep thinking that some village, somewhere, is missing their idiot.

 

i thought it was. as embarrassing as it may be to admit, i actually died a few times in kotor1, including my first encounter with malak.

 

I remember dieing a few times to groups of sith apprentices due to their use of lightning and mind screw powers...

 

How I miss enemy AI like that in KOTOR 2.

[Meshugger]

Given the level of challenge, or lack of in this case, I personally found item creation to be more gratifying than the combat itself.  :ph34r:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

did combat actually seem easier than it were in kotor? and we didn't think that were possible. heck, we didn't even cheat ourself up to level 50 to complete the game.

 

oh well.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would say it was a bit easier due to leveling over 20, but not as easy as everyone would say. But i'm not exactly the textbook example of a good player.

[Judge Hades]

Gromnir, I think you are slightly misunderstanding what I am saying. Yes, I would love to see the game to be less munchkiny. I would love to see this game to have more differences in the classes but still be balance. I want this game to be a challenging well written game of high quality. But over the last few days of arguing with you and others I came to realize that such wanting is futile. The game is what it is and there is nothing any one of us can do to change that.

 

Obsidian made what they wanted to make. They made an unchallenging munchkin driven game because that is what they wanted and that was the audience they were aiming for. Feargus and crew are not a bunch of stupid people. They had a goal and they met it. That goal is to make a game that a casual gamer can sneeze and win.

 

Yes, I would want to see better from Obsidian, but its not going to happen.

[Drakron]

I dont see this as a "big issue", looks more like a bug or design flaw that have no much impact from what I read about the game.

 

On my personal view the item creation would be depending on the PC/NPC trying to build the item, not the PC abilities only ... doing that is just another way to force skills into being useful for the player with is plain wrong on any system that is party oriented.

 

A bigger issue would be that "all classes have the same BAB progression" with makes me really wonder about class balance among other things ...

[Dimeron]

I dont see this as a "big issue", looks more like a bug or design flaw that have no much impact from what I read about the game.

 

On my personal view the item creation would be depending on the PC/NPC trying to build the item, not the PC abilities only ... doing that is just another way to force skills into being useful for the player with is plain wrong on any system that is party oriented.

 

A bigger issue would be that "all classes have the same BAB progression" with makes me really wonder about class balance among other things ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then how do you propose to make skills more useful without drastically changing the game mechanics?

 

It has to be simplistic enough so that there might actually be possible to put into the PC version.

[jaguars4ever]

Moreover, there has to be consistency. We can't have one rule for the workbench and another rule for the labstation.

[Judge Hades]

Why? The game isn't even consistant with the rules its based on. Hell, its not even consistant with the last game. If Obsidian doesn't care why should we?

[jaguars4ever]

Why?  The game isn't even consistant with the rules its based on.  Hell, its not even consistant with the last game.  If Obsidian doesn't care why should we?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have a valid point Hades...but if you take that rationale to it's logical conclusion, then the game really isn't worth playing at all.

[Epiphany]

then the game really isn't worth playing at all. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

...and?

[Shadowstrider]

In an ideal world I would like the workbench to reflect all my NPCs and their skills, BUT, you wouldn't be "assigned" NPCs to work with, instead you would have to pick and choose your NPCs, and each NPC would have something to add to the game/party, rather than having different personalities with the same skills and powers. Everytime you exlcuded a party member you would miss out on something in the game.

 

Unfortunately in KotOR2 this isn't the case, and you essentially have the same party members, with one or two exceptions. So yes, I'd like to see the workbench fixed to make your characters stats matter.

[Drakron]

Then how do you propose to make skills more useful without drastically changing the game mechanics?

 

It has to be simplistic enough so that there might actually be possible to put into the PC version.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its not my job to tell how, I am not making a game after all but I could point out that in Star Wars d20 there are more skills (item craft for example) and they even affect force power with I would use on a Star Wars RPG.

 

The issue is that skills are really not that required for characters, some characters are simply combat monsters that have a few skills that are not even much used (like intimidate) but on the other hand we have characters that are skill monsters being able to build a starfighter out of credit chips.

 

But that happens because d20 system is a party based system, characters are expected to have roles in the party.

 

Now nobody is going to use security skill if they can bash doors opens and that is were skills became useless, if bashing doors is not possible then people would use security.

 

In the end its not skills that must be made more useful on a mechanical standpoint but the levels that muct be designed in ways to make use of skills.

[Judge Hades]

You have a valid point Hades...but if you take that rationale to it's logical conclusion, then the game really isn't worth playing at all. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My point exactly.

[Dimeron]

Then how do you propose to make skills more useful without drastically changing the game mechanics?

 

It has to be simplistic enough so that there might actually be possible to put into the PC version.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its not my job to tell how, I am not making a game after all but I could point out that in Star Wars d20 there are more skills (item craft for example) and they even affect force power with I would use on a Star Wars RPG.

 

The issue is that skills are really not that required for characters, some characters are simply combat monsters that have a few skills that are not even much used (like intimidate) but on the other hand we have characters that are skill monsters being able to build a starfighter out of credit chips.

 

But that happens because d20 system is a party based system, characters are expected to have roles in the party.

 

Now nobody is going to use security skill if they can bash doors opens and that is were skills became useless, if bashing doors is not possible then people would use security.

 

In the end its not skills that must be made more useful on a mechanical standpoint but the levels that muct be designed in ways to make use of skills.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing is, despite it is a party, it is still a single player game. So the NPC are not really player characters, but in fact DM NPC, but that's not exactly the point.

 

The point is, currently as it is, int and skills are not nearly important enough, compared to other aspect, such as force power, melee ability, damage, AB, saves, etc. Basically combat ability.

 

Right now, you would agree that the PC, when specializes in combat, are far more effective then other NPCs. The same should be true for skils as well. If the PC focus on skills, then by the same token, he should be better than the NPCs

 

However, NPC currently can do everything a super focused skilled character can do (except repair for item breakdown) which means there is very little incentive to actually focus on skill and make a skill focus character (because there is no point) except for item breakdown. Also, since this is cRPG, skills are not nearly as powerful and flexible as it is in PnP, and that's another cause for the problem.

 

Now, I