Reasons I did not enjoy KotOR II ( Big spoilers )

[Kevar]

(This post contains huge spoilers that tell you the ending and a lot of storylines, you've been warned)

 

I don't intend for this post to be trolling. I'm not just going to bash the game and say it sucks, I'm going to give honest reasons on why I didn't like the sequel and hope that, just maybe, it might count for something. I hope maybe a developer will read it. Eitherway.. I played the first KotOR over six times. I enjoyed it a lot. So, on to the post.

 

I thought character developement was really lacking besides Kreia. Most of the storylines abruptly ended, for example:

After all the interaction with Handmaiden, you teach her the ways of the Jedi and then nothing else happens. I mean, no new dialogue options came up after that at all.

After the initial conversation with Visas, you don't get anything new from her until you get towards the end of the game. Then you have a single interesting conversation with her.. and it stops again except for a brief moment on the Ravager.

I almost never had any conversation options with Bao-Dur after some initial war stories. I'm disappointed with that because I love his character design and had him in my party until I realized he never talked.

Darth Nihilus looked badass and I like his name - but hes devoid of character. I guess it's understandable since he is just supposed to be a wound in the force, but I was eagerly ancipitating this character after seeing his image plastered everywhere.

 

The dialogue trees are really advanced and nice, but there was no order to them whatsoever. It really ruins the immersion when you get into a relationship with, for example, Handmaiden but she still talks to you like you just met. This goes for nearly every character.

There is also the bugs involved with the dialogue trees. After I made Handmaiden into a Jedi Guardian, I actually had the conversation with her again and then the game locked up.

I had the "stay with me" conversation with Visas before going to Telos, then on the Ravager I actidently spoke with her. The same "stay with me" conversation played and then the game froze.

It's really killing to still have, for example, the "Who sent you?" dialogue tree option with Visas while you're on the ravager, about to kill her master.

 

The last few planets felt really rushed. All of a sudden you're in the Telos academy, and then even without a cutscene you're in the Citadel defending from sith invaders. It was also odd how it mentioned the Remote was waiting outside, but then it just skips to the final cinematic.

 

Plus, the final cinematic was disappointing. I have huge nostalgia from the first Star Wars movie, when Luke and company were rewarded for destroying the Death Star. The first KotOR reminded me of that scene. But this ..Kreia dies.. THE END.

 

Then theres the standard game bugs. Among other things, all of my savefiles were actually deleted after I beat the game. Crazy.

 

As a final note, this really is a good game, but it's a total rushjob. So the overall product suffers critically for that. I'm really disappointed, but I'll keep faith in Obsidian for at least excelling in some areas of the game. If they make a KotOR III, I'll be renting it before I buy, as I should have done with this.

[Kevar]

Do I need to act like a moron and flame everyone to get a response? <_<

[Maedhros]

I don't think your savefiles was deleted, press X at the Loadgame menu to bring them up again. There are different menus for each character you play with.

 

And I agree with just about everything you say, except about the ending, I kinda liked it, makes me want to play Kotor III more.

[Oberon]

Your complaints are pretty accurate if you ask me. They didn't really focus much on character development but more on philosophy and morals in this game. I don't know if that was intentional but it came off that way to me. Alot of the characters did feel pointless, like they were just thrown in there for the sake of being there, such as Darth Nihlus. It makes the game seem kind of bland. Of course it was still an excellent game, and blew away most RPG's out there in the fact that it still is a good mix of action and plot that not many other games have gotten right to this day. If they do make a KOTOR 3 and it ended up being like this I would still be content.

[Dracomicron]

Of course it was still an excellent game, and blew away most RPG's out there in the fact that it still is a good mix of action and plot that not many other games have gotten right to this day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's one of the more interesting points here. Even with all the criticism, it is still much better than your standard fare CRPG. The only reason people are here to complain is because the game itself is compelling to them in some way.

[icu]

About the ending being so weak,well this is what I think of it:

It's not supposed to be dramatic.The overall story is not about saving the galaxy,it's about Kreia using you so that her hate for the force will finally be over.

I might not be 100% clear on this,but you two formed a bond and she didn't want to kill herself because it would kill you,and she didn't want you to die.So she waited until you were stronger than her so you could end it for her without it harming yourself.

She tells you before the final battle that there's no big shocker,no twist,no hidden motive other than her wanting to die because she hates the force and wants the force to end completely.But well if she wanted the force to end then all she had to do was let Nihilus continue doing what he's doing and eventually all life and all force would end.

The end was pretty much that she used you,she betrayed you and you get revenge(DS) or you let her live and suffer.

An award ceremony would have been pointless at the end,unless it was Telos that was awarding you.The DS ending would have just been you taking control of Malachor.

But anyway,the ending might have been anti-climatic,but I think that's how it was meant to be.

I wish a Dev would come and clear it up for us.

[anakins revenge]

so after waiting since july the game turned out to be ****ED because lucasarts needs funding and obsidian couldnt polish it enough in time

[Ivan the Terrible]

Agree with pretty much every point, unfortunately.

 

I'm especially disappointed in the 'training an apprentice' part of the game. What I was hoping would happen was that you would find ONE apprentice and that you'd be able to teach the ways of the Force to them as you saw fit. What I got was a whole bunch of NPCs who could ALL become Jedi....and then that was it. No dialogue options about their emerging powers, or the Force, or the Light Side and Dark Side. Nothing. It felt more like a nod to powergaming than a story point.

[Kevar]

I don't think your savefiles was deleted, press X at the Loadgame menu to bring them up again. There are different menus for each character you play with.

 

And I agree with just about everything you say, except about the ending, I kinda liked it, makes me want to play Kotor III more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ahh - you were right, my savefiles were not deleted. Thanks.

 

Agree with pretty much every point, unfortunately.

 

I'm especially disappointed in the 'training an apprentice' part of the game. What I was hoping would happen was that you would find ONE apprentice and that you'd be able to teach the ways of the Force to them as you saw fit. What I got was a whole bunch of NPCs who could ALL become Jedi....and then that was it. No dialogue options about their emerging powers, or the Force, or the Light Side and Dark Side. Nothing. It felt more like a nod to powergaming than a story point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was satisfied with the Jedi training when Kreia mentioned that they were the real Lost Jedi .. that was just a cool line. Otherwise I think you're right. It's hard to train a padawan when you have sith lords chasing you, but a few 'training' scenes wouldn't have hurt if properly timed.

 

About the ending being so weak,well this is what I think of it:

It's not supposed to be dramatic.The overall story is not about saving the galaxy,it's about Kreia using you so that her hate for the force will finally be over.

I might not be 100% clear on this,but you two formed a bond and she didn't want to kill herself because it would kill you,and she didn't want you to die.So she waited until you were stronger than her so you could end it for her without it harming yourself.

She tells you before the final battle that there's no big shocker,no twist,no hidden motive other than her wanting to die because she hates the force and wants the force to end completely.But well if she wanted the force to end then all she had to do was let Nihilus continue doing what he's doing and eventually all life and all force would end.

The end was pretty much that she used you,she betrayed you and you get revenge(DS) or you let her live and suffer.

An award ceremony would have been pointless at the end,unless it was Telos that was awarding you.The DS ending would have just been you taking control of Malachor.

But anyway,the ending might have been anti-climatic,but I think that's how it was meant to be.

I wish a Dev would come and clear it up for us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I didn't mean an award ceremony exactly. I just meant something that gives you a feeling of accomplishment, like being awarded or the DS cutscene where it shows you doing a leadership talk to your army and then flying in the ravager. Kreia explaining how many lives I'd changed and foretelling the future didn't give me a good feeling like a well designed cutscene would have.

Collect all the masks in Zelda: Majora's Mask. The ending you get is what I'm talking about. Anyone who has seen that ending will remember that because of the feeling it gave - of how great it was. Thats my point.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses I do enjoy the game - playing it through again on darkside this time, in fact, I just wish it had a few more months in the shop to be completely polished.

[Grandpa]

I didn't read the op in detail because I don't want to read too many spoilers.

 

I just want to compliment Kevar on writing his take on the negative aspects of the game without all the "Obisidian sucks" garbage strewn about the place like we've seen from some others.

[Kevar]

I didn't read the op in detail because I don't want to read too many spoilers.

 

I just want to compliment Kevar on writing his take on the negative aspects of the game without all the "Obisidian sucks" garbage strewn about the place like we've seen from some others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks I was hoping this post would be used as insight and fan feedback - for example, if a developer reads it. Shouting about how much they suck won't solve anything, especially since they did do a good job regardless of the lack of polish. So I hope this gets some notice

[nightcleaver]

Sadly, I agree with a lot this poster says too... but I still really, really liked the core of what was there.

 

Thanks for being so respectful about this, moreso than you probably needed to be. I can't say people (myself included, maybe) might be a little too touchy, still...

 

Also, as far as apprentices go -

Mira

has the best dialogues pertaining to "being your apprentice". I don't know if you've tried that one yet, but that one's the most satisfying person to train as your apprentice. Still could've been fleshed out more, though. It didn't really feel like you were training jedi, but like your NPC's were suddenly taking levels in Jedi classes.

 

It would've been nice if they had voice acting for your PC while they said Master-to-Apprentice type things, instead of (and only in one case did you even get THIS) hearing Kreia's voice repeating what she had said to you in the background.

 

I also have to say that I was under the impression that the first few levels of Jedi in the game would be a little bit different - wasn't there something about you being taught individual powers as you moved throughout Peragus? Perhaps finding situations, and deciding which powers you would take up? I thought that sounded really nifty, and I would've liked something akin to that for training your apprentice. Maybe they didn't have time, though.

 

You know what would've helped the ending? If it had shown the NPC's, doing their thing on the bridge of the Ebon Hawk, as it struck off into that somewhat random Nebula.

 

Here's what I was thinking they could've done: You talk to Kreia, and she starts talking about the future... fade away... fade back in, you clamber aboard the ebon hawk, the Ebon Hawk escapes. Your character seems distracted, and T3 (or maybe the romance option of preference) asks you what's wrong. You start remembering faint, somewhat spectral visions of what Kreia told you about your companions (note that the player hasn't seen what she told the PC until now) as you look at each one, and wonder. The Ebon Hawk goes off into the Nebula, music running, fade to credits.

 

Did they not have time to do something like that? It seems like the talk with Kreia could've been a last minute thing. Talking about your companions in such abstract terms, and not even seeing them one last time, was almost worse than Kreia just dying dramatically and you escaping on the Ebon Hawk.

 

I really liked the going off into space, into destiny, into death, maybe... and it was a great resolution for the core plot, but from Dantooine to the end of the game it just felt strangely lonely.

[envida]

Here's what I was thinking they could've done:  You talk to Kreia, and she starts talking about the future... fade away... fade back in, you clamber aboard the ebon hawk, the Ebon Hawk escapes.  Your character seems distracted, and T3 (or maybe the romance option of preference) asks you what's wrong.  You start remembering faint, somewhat spectral visions of what Kreia told you about your companions (note that the player hasn't seen what she told the PC until now) as you look at each one, and wonder.  The Ebon Hawk goes off into the Nebula, music running, fade to credits.

 

Did they not have time to do something like that?  It seems like the talk with Kreia could've been a last minute thing.  Talking about your companions in such abstract terms, and not even seeing them one last time, was almost worse than Kreia just dying dramatically and you escaping on the Ebon Hawk.

 

I really liked the going off into space, into destiny, into death, maybe... and it was a great resolution for the core plot, but from Dantooine to the end of the game it just felt strangely lonely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's is excatly what should have been in, that is what was missing!. I liked the ending itself. It was the ending movie that was bad. Good thinking

[KOTORFanactic]

Spoilers go in the SPOILER forum.

(P.S. not reading it due to spoilers)

[Kevar]

Spoilers go in the SPOILER forum.

(P.S. not reading it due to spoilers)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry, I figured large markings would be enough. Ah well.

 

Here's what I was thinking they could've done:  You talk to Kreia, and she starts talking about the future... fade away... fade back in, you clamber aboard the ebon hawk, the Ebon Hawk escapes.  Your character seems distracted, and T3 (or maybe the romance option of preference) asks you what's wrong.  You start remembering faint, somewhat spectral visions of what Kreia told you about your companions (note that the player hasn't seen what she told the PC until now) as you look at each one, and wonder.  The Ebon Hawk goes off into the Nebula, music running, fade to credits.

 

Did they not have time to do something like that?  It seems like the talk with Kreia could've been a last minute thing.  Talking about your companions in such abstract terms, and not even seeing them one last time, was almost worse than Kreia just dying dramatically and you escaping on the Ebon Hawk.

 

I really liked the going off into space, into destiny, into death, maybe... and it was a great resolution for the core plot, but from Dantooine to the end of the game it just felt strangely lonely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's is excatly what should have been in, that is what was missing!. I liked the ending itself. It was the ending movie that was bad. Good thinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Thats an excellent ending.