Muad'Dib Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I never played PS:T Althernai so I can't make a contrast but at least from what I just read before the editing went into highgear I am seriously reconsidering buying this game like you. Unless the speculations that there were more than 2 endings turn out to be true, the confirmed LS ending I just read virtually killed the story for me. I've got a few months to think whether I really want a game that will leave me as unsatisfied as I know now the ending will be for me. I guess asking for games to have inspired endings is a lot to ask for these days, damn I hate these Children of Dune-like endings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 Similar, but not identical to PS:T. Hmm... without spoilers, can anyone compare the feelings you got to the ending in PS:T rather than in KotOR? If the ending evokes feelings similar to PS:T, but the game is only thirtyish hours long... I'm not sure if I want to buy this. I liked PS:T's ending. A lot. But I'm pretty alone on that one, I know. And while I wasn't timing it, and I don't remember what hour I ended on, it felt longer than 30 hours to me. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 My fault, Muad'dib. Really, you have to play the game for yourself, or else you'll never know what you missed. It could just be me. If I had known from the beginning that I would be unsatisfied, though, I don't know what I would do. I would probably still play through it, though I would have delayed it as much as possible in hopes of the announcment of a direct sequel. That way the frustration wouldn't last as long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Oh no need to apologize at all Tainted Mustard, I'm glad I know this because it wouldn't then been the extreme disappointment I would have felt had I played the game and really loved it. Believe me you did me a favor. Again unless there are more than 2 endings as some devs hinted, then it might just be best for me to stick with the original only. The ending was kinda lame but at least there was closure in it and I felt good about where my character ended up. Too bad, I had real high hopes for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Similar, but not identical to PS:T. Hmm... without spoilers, can anyone compare the feelings you got to the ending in PS:T rather than in KotOR? If the ending evokes feelings similar to PS:T, but the game is only thirtyish hours long... I'm not sure if I want to buy this. I liked PS:T's ending. A lot. But I'm pretty alone on that one, I know. And while I wasn't timing it, and I don't remember what hour I ended on, it felt longer than 30 hours to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In a way, I *was* satisfied with its ending. I enjoyed PS:T very much, though, and the ending did fit. I uninstalled the game the same day I finished it and never played again, but I was satisfied. All questions were answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 My fault, Muad'dib. Really, you have to play the game for yourself, or else you'll never know what you missed. It could just be me. I agree. If anyone out there is thinking of not buying the game now that people are bitching about the ending....rethink it. If you play it, even if you agree when you finish that we were right and the ending leaves you hollow, I think you'll find the game itself more than worth it. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I was just thinking... the Nameless One was forced into exile from the multiverse to fight in the Blood War, a never-ending conflict between devil and demon, as atonement for the crimes of his soul, while the exile and Revan must wait at the borders of the galaxy for the Sith, to await conflict between Light and Dark, apparently to atone for Malachor V and other atrocities. Suddenly, I feel that KotOR 3 will never be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 Suddenly, I feel that KotOR 3 will never be made. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I remember Chris Avellone commented one time that KOTOR II's ending would provide a perfect set-up for KOTOR III, so I'm not so sure about that. Besides, it's Lucasarts' decision rather than the designers, and if KOTOR II is as lucrative as the first game I'm sure we'll be seeing a third game. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertHawk Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 You actually all just confirmed my suspicions about how the game would end. Look at the ending from this point of view: In Star Wars, the theme is the never ending war between the light side and the darkside. In KOTOR 1, the theme was redemption. Yet the game gave the impression that you could be redeemed by simply being in the right mindset. And that, my good friends, is the wrong idea. A person can't be redeemed through simple thought, but has to be reedeemed by their actions. And no matter what, they'll always be tainted by their past. I recall noting the similar structure between this game and PS:T. And if it is as you say, I'll actually enjoy it to some degree. I love games that make me feel odd when I finish. Otherwise, it's yet another crappy game. Fnord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I remember Chris Avellone commented one time that KOTOR II's ending would provide a perfect set-up for KOTOR III, so I'm not so sure about that. Besides, it's Lucasarts' decision rather than the designers, and if KOTOR II is as lucrative as the first game I'm sure we'll be seeing a third game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> True. Hopefully it falls to Obsidian - they're the best bet, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan the Terrible Posted December 11, 2004 Author Share Posted December 11, 2004 I recall noting the similar structure between this game and PS:T. And if it is as you say, I'll actually enjoy it to some degree. I love games that make me feel odd when I finish. Otherwise, it's yet another crappy game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I should note I love Fallout's ending, and PS:T's ending. Two of my all-time favorite endings in game history, in fact. The problem here isn't the 'darkness', or that it's an 'unhappy ending'; the problem is loose ends, and there are too many of them for you to even be fully aware what you're doing at the end, or why you're doing it. The whole thing feels rushed near the end, unfortunately. I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you But I get the feeling that you don't like it What's with all the screaming? You like monkeys, you like ponies Maybe you don't like monsters so much Maybe I used too many monkeys Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Exactly. I felt no satisfaction from the apparent fate of the exile and Revan like I did from that of the Nameless One. I could understand, I suppose, the reasoning behind the exile's need to wander like Revan, but that gives me no comfort. Too many things needed answering, and in the end all I had were questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertHawk Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 You just hit how I felt about Torment right on the spot. I hated that ending. Especially how all three were the same. Why do you have to go and fight forever? Why can't you just, well, die? I guess they were trying to make it more lifelike in the sense of "endings are never happy". In real life, nobody would be dancing around and hitting stormtropper helmets except for civilians. Real troops would have been far more concerned with destroying the rest of the fleet. Knowing how you guys feel about the game may put a hole in my heart, but I think it's better to write a fanfic and to give them a fitting end than to sit around and think about it. The force works in mysterious ways. Fnord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Also: There's the possibility that KOTOR 3 will not be a direct sequel, allowing the questions to remain. However, I doubt that would be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Knowing how you guys feel about the game may put a hole in my heart, but I think it's better to write a fanfic and to give them a fitting end than to sit around and think about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nah... it would feel artificial if I did that. I can make up stories in my head, and that will satisfy me, but it needs to be made concrete eventually. That and I've yet to find fan fiction I can tolerate. And no, I won't change my mind, no matter how many examples of 'good' fanfic you give me. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Actually, you *can* 'die' in Torment and that will be your ending... you can unmake yourself through sheer force of will. You will disappear from existence, entirely, though. In a sense, you did 'die' - the Blood War is like a hell, in some ways. But it seems to be eternal redemption. There must come a time when such redemption is no longer needed. Yes, your past will be a part of you, but you must also face the future. No one is served in fighting a battle in which there can never be a victor... or even casualties, such as the multiverse works. All that seems to be accomplished is suffering - and that serves no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althernai Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 And while I wasn't timing it, and I don't remember what hour I ended on, it felt longer than 30 hours to me. PS:T was a lot longer than 30 hours -- unless you just went thorugh the 'critical path', it was definitely at least 60. If you try to explore every corner, you'll have something closer to 80. They just don't make games that long any more -- the omnipresent voice acting alone would make it unprofitable. That was my point about KotOR II and PS:T: while the ending(s) in PS:T left me with the hollow feelings of "What the heck was all this for?" and "I can't believe he did that!", I loved the other 75+ hours the game offered, loved the characters (and most of those I didn't love were really fun to hate) and so on and so forth. On the other hand, if KotOR II offers the same kind of ending, but only 30 hours of gameplay, the ending counts a lot more. More about the ending of PS:T -- I agree that the ending fit the story quite well; I applaud the well-written story and realize that to have a happy ending would have made the story worse. However, a computer game is inherently a game and a game where all actions lead to eternal damnation, oblivion, insanity and other such things just isn't satisfying (to me). Not having a happy ending is one thing, not having a hopeful ending is quite another. There was some license for imagining hope in the ending of PS:T (if you looked closely at the rules of the setting presented by the various philosopers and at what happened to Curst), but it requires quite an imagination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I've been doing some searching and signs seem to be pointing that KOTOR 3 will be delayed - or canceled - thanks to the laying off of its initial development team. Seeing as internally-developed Lucas Arts games are usually crap, that's probably a good thing. Still, there's the possibility that they'll give up on it. Even though it makes them money, a first-person shooter can make them more. If it isn't made or if isn't made well, I'll never buy a Lucas Arts or Lucas Anything until it is, and I'll encourage everyone I know to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Althernai Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 I should note I love Fallout's ending, and PS:T's ending. Two of my all-time favorite endings in game history, in fact. The problem here isn't the 'darkness', or that it's an 'unhappy ending'; the problem is loose ends, and there are too many of them for you to even be fully aware what you're doing at the end, or why you're doing it. The whole thing feels rushed near the end, unfortunately. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If what you say here is true, then this is a lot worse than PS:T. The latter was an issue with philosophy behind games, this is just bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planar Jedi Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Guys, i think that this ending is just great. I know many gamers want a happy ending, where al is said and done, and the main guy has a completed history, but it seems too simple. You can't atone for your crimes that simple. Your salvation is either oblivion or salvation. It sounds similar to Torment's ending, with the exception that in torment you could undone yourself and fall to oblivion, It is hard, but past makes our future There is hope beyond hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maia Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Didn't read any spoilers, but I suspect that I'd love the ending. Happy-go-lucky endings of computer games, fantasy and even sf novels have been getting on my nerves for some time, so any change would be welcome. Also, this "delay the inevitable" that was mentioned makes far more sense in a series than the whole "Defeated that evil for all time. The evil we face _again_ a couple of years later is a completely new and shiny one" formula. PST has a great ending for a good character, but I never understood why an evil one would want to through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LdyShayna Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 At last the answer to the question I most wanted answers to. And it is the answer I most feared. See, I can't get enough of happy endings. Indeed, others on this thread can look down on me if they like, but in my fun 'n' games anything that isn't on the balance upbeat and satisying in the end is unacceptable in a game. Alas, it appears I will be taking a pass on KotOR 2 after all. Too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jast Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 The ending is my eyes was bad, just bad. I mean I played thirty-eight hours for an ending like that? No answers to anything, just the game pushing you along expecting you to follow. It was like TSL was trying to copy ESB's ending, but they failed somewhere along the way. I mean really, Halo 2's ending was better then this one, no joke. Like I said before I play a game for it's ending, and since Kotor II has one of the worse, unexplained endings in my eyes(Halo 2 doesn't even come close), I guess I'll just play up to Malachor and stop there. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSpotFrenzy Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 The ending is my eyes was bad, just bad. I mean I played thirty-eight hours for an ending like that? No answers to anything, just the game pushing you along expecting you to follow. It was like TSL was trying to copy ESB's ending, but they failed somewhere along the way. I mean really, Halo 2's ending was better then this one, no joke. Like I said before I play a game for it's ending, and since Kotor II has one of the worse, unexplained endings in my eyes(Halo 2 doesn't even come close), I guess I'll just play up to Malachor and stop there. :ph34r: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I felt the cut scene was stupidly short, but I did get most of my questions answered. You just have to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tainted Mustard Posted December 11, 2004 Share Posted December 11, 2004 Did I ever say I wanted a happy-go-lucky ending? No. I wanted a *satisfying* ending. The two aren't the same. I wanted to actually feel as if what I did mattered, but I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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