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Ivan the Terrible

Plot question of the day: WHY TARIS!?

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that's why he's gone in TSL, hes still taking a dump!  :thumbsup:

but, about my idea, couldn't it be because they wanted to take Revan out through the Outer Rims, to "ignite" some of his lost memories, in an kinda controlable enviroment? so they had some kind of idea what Malak and him found and why they turned evil .. and possibly where!?

 

 

Like I said, I think that this was the will of the force, I'm sure the council meditated a great deal on what they should do and this was the force showed them

 

ok I thought you were just being a smartass stating the obvious! sorry :rolleyes: ..


Fortune favors the bald.

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I don't see how they could not realize that Taris was under Sith control... I mean it's a major trading spot, and even people from across the galaxy (like backwater tatooine) know about it. Plus, they said the Republic had a base on Taris when you speak to Zelka Forn, so obviously the Republic must have got a message that Taris was under attack.

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The best explanation is that it was an ambush.

 

If they were heading to battle then Bastila should have been ready to use her battle meditation.

 

That or either they were coming from an another battle (I remember that Carth said that Bastila was also tired), and the remaining Sith forces caught up with them as they were fleeing or simply leaving the battle.


And by the light of the moon

He prays for their beauty not doom

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Thats a really good explanation DSLuke. Ivan's is also incredibly possible. Taris was a backwater, decaying planet even before the Sith showed. New trade routes had left it barely useful. So when the Sith showed up and declared martial law it was just another nail in the coffin for Taris.

 

 

PS Over 100 posts (w00t)


On official Sith business.

 

Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.

Mao Tse-Tung

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Or perhaps there was a fleet like the scrowl says, all the other ships were destroyed, and the only ship that was central to the plot was shown.


KOTOR 2 must be completed

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The jedi council didn't know the star maps existed.

 

So they claim....but I'm pretty sure they were lying. About not knowing about the Star Maps AND not knowing about the Star Forge. After all, why would the Jedi Order 'surely banish' Revan and Malak, as was mentioned by Malak in a flashback to the Star Map on Dantooine, if the Council knew nothing about the Star Map's existence?

 

Besides, it becomes pretty clear during the whole 'revelation' scene that the council knew about the Star Maps and used Bastila's connection with you to find them. That's why they 'reprogrammed' Revan in the first place; to use his memories of the Star Maps to find them on their respective planets and chart a course to the Star Forge.


I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

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Ok, time for my attempt to fill the gaping plot hole:

 

The Endar Spire was travelling alone so as not to attract Sith attention. Revan was not yet intended to wake up and begin his new identity; Bastila and company were bringing him to Dantooine, where he would be woken and reinstructed in the Jedi way to prevent another fall to the Dark Side (explaining why they didn't simply program him directly as a Jedi; they wanted to take a direct hand in preventing a repeat of history), and thus setting him up to work with Bastila in finding the Star Maps.

 

Along the way, the Sith learned somehow (perhaps through a spy?) about Bastila being onboard and set a trap in a system (Taris) they were passing through to reach Dantooine. Therefore, Taris only came under Sith occupation a few days before the arrival of the Endar Spire, preventing the Republic ship from knowing they were headed into a trap, and thus when the Endar Spire emerged in the system the Sith took them completely off-guard, pounced on them with their fighters, and voila, you've got your KOTOR set-up.

 

Another thought: instead of just being a disposable tutorial character (*cough*), Trask Ulgo was one of the few people on board to know Revan's real identity, and was assigned to watch him in case he started to wake up. This explains why he sacrificed himself so you could get away, as well as why he was so patient with your idiotic questions about who Bastila was, what the Endar Spire was, etc.

 

There's my attempt to explain it. Any faults with my makeshift patch-up of this problem? :lol:

 

I like it.

 

I always thought Trask must have known, he sacrificed himself for you, surely he was in on it to some degree. Plus he seemed to be the strongest soldier on the ship the way those other guys we're getting wiped out...

 

For some reason I was under the impression that they had been running from a previous battle but I can't find anything to back that up, probably my imagination.

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one problem with that theory, taris was under sith occupation for atleast several months. As sarna said, She had been stuck on this backwater planet for months-implying they had control

 

Does she say that?

 

Damn. That sinks that theory....


I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

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A dramatic theory that I rather like on why they were "ambushed" in a last ditch confrontation with the sith is that the fleet was trying to be stealthy, keeping energy output to a minimum to avoid detection before they were ready, perhaps, or just sitting around and looking for the Sith fleet. But then, right as they were weak... blam-o, they're at the mercy of the Sith.

 

Or, perhaps they were holding off Battle Meditation until the last moment. I can't imagine battle meditation as a terribly stealthy thing to do, especially with dark Jedi/sith about like Malak and Bandon. (unless, perhaps, it can be used in some way to BE stealthy) Then it would be just as simple as the Sith noticed the Republic fleet before they were supposed to, and thus Bastila wasn't ready with her battle meditation soon enough for the first strike by the Sith to not make a difference. Not exactly an "ambush," but the same idea.

 

Maybe Bastila was saving her own skin, leaving ship as soon as humanly possible, not even bothering with Battle meditation. Maybe people overrode her and told her to escape, because the odds were just too great to even bother trying.

Keep in mind that anything said about why Bastila didn't have Battle meditation up when the battle was going was pure speculation. Unless I'm forgetting Bastila being forthright about it? However forthright she'd be, if she were really just trying to save her own skin.

 

 

I don't think it's logical to assume that just because only the Endar Spire was shown, the Endar Spire was the only one there. I remember the camera angle being fairly tight. Also, the Sith apparently have an idea that Bastila is on-board, and are somewhat holding off on firepower because of that.

 

As for the Master's knowing about the star forge and such, well... it seemed pretty clear to me that they weren't exactly sure on what to expect. Bastila comes to the master's after the dream you have about the star map, remember? Then they start talking to you.

 

They didn't have to know about the star maps to know that having your former enemy working for you, memories however partially intact, would be beneficial.

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okay well let's get the fact straight then ..

* Taris is in the Outer Rims, apperantly of no strategic value, and a dying world!

* Taris has been under Sith control for a few months!

* The Endar Spire seems to travel alone with Revan and Bastilla onboard.

* The Endar Spire is supposedly ambushed, otherwise Bastilla would've used her Battle Meditation.

* The frigate is under Jedi command, which means it's probably undetakin a mission from the Jedi Council.

*It says somewhere that it was a small Jedi battlegroup trying to take on Malaks forces to stop his evil reign. (probably meaning trying to take on Malak personally)

 

I can't remember if Malak was near Taris, or he came later when he heard that Bastilla was stranded!?

 

because if he was "on" Taris, then perhaps the Jedis were scouting the Outer Rim, with Revan to try and discover what he and his apprentice had found back in the Mandalorian wars .. when they heard Malak was personally aboard a ship orbiting Taris, and without his fleet to protect him, they thought they could end the war there and then! just speculations ..


Fortune favors the bald.

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Bastilla did try to use her battle meditation but i don't think there was enough time, she says that the battle meditation exhausted her force powers so that after her crash, with the added problem of losing her lightsaber, she was caught.

 

I would say that the spire was not expecting a large sith fleet. They probably were trying to be stealthy and pass through the system but the sith knew they were coming, and attacked. Not sure why they would be so close to taris though- reconnaisance?

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"reconaissance" would work, except that it's outright stated that they're in a last-ditch confrontation, trying to stop the Sith over Taris.

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There is no good explanation why Bastila and Revan, the most important people for the republic were alone near Taris. I agree that may be the ship was traveling to Dantoine in order to restore Revan's power. The sith new about Bastila and decided to trap her. (nothing about Revan, we know Malak was thinkihn he/she is death). There is a technical problem - the travel to Dantoine is in hyperspace, so sith may had used some interceptor field (like Leviatan on EbonHawk) in order to "extract" EndarSpire from hyperspace. But also a mathematical problem arises: the probability of a travel from one planet to another (Dantoine) to intersect some in-between planet (Taris), taking into account the space "size" is zero. Which means that EndarSpire was near Taris out of hiperspace on its own will to do something. Which again doesn't make sence ...

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Since Taris is in sith space, and forces there would be assumed minimal, the Republic decided to send 1 ship to try to take and hold the orbit of Taris. With Bastila's Battle Meditation, that would give them an even better chance. The jedi placed Revan on board, as it was the perfect oppurtunity to get him/her with Bastila. They would take and hold Taris orbit until a Republic fleet arrived.

 

Anyway, destroy the idea at your leisure.

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Taris was described to be the hub of one of the most important trade routes through the Outer Rims, at least at some point in the past before the game it used to be. Tha planet was also compared to having been almost as great as Coruscant but had withered into a world were the wealthy lived in the uppermost levels. the middle and lower clases in the lower levels and the poor, diseased and criminals in the Undercity.

 

If Taris had at some point been an important trade route, perhaps it provided some kind of tactical or strategic advantage to those who controlled it. Maybe it is a nexus to multiple areas or otherwise unreacheable systems in the Outer Rims. I'm stretching here but who knows?

 

It was apparent to me that the Endar Spire was the last surving ship of an ambushed convoy. Since we are never told of the Endar Spire's original destination or mission I can't be sure, but it's what makes the most sense to me.

The Endar Spire was also not engaged by enemy capital ships only Sith fighters, perhaps they were forcing them towards the Taris blockade. Or perhaps the fleet had already wiped out the Spire's companions and given the extreme damage the ship had already endured it was left for the fighters to finish off.

 

I really have no better ideas as to why the Spire ended up at Taris other than speculations they were forced into the system, maybe they were forced out of hyperspace or were headed to a nearby system and rerouted. But what I do believe is that the ship was not alone from the get go, it was just the only one left in the opening of the game. Whatever the reason it must have been important enough for Malak to send Bandon aboard to kill Bastila and her Jedi companions, but I'm just guessing like all of you here.

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It was apparent to me that the Endar Spire was the last surving ship of an ambushed convoy. Since we are never told of the Endar Spire's original destination or mission I can't be sure, but it's what makes the most sense to me.

The Endar Spire was also not engaged by enemy capital ships only Sith fighters, perhaps they were forcing them towards the Taris blockade. Or perhaps the fleet had already wiped out the Spire's companions and given the extreme damage the ship had already endured it was left for the fighters to finish off.

 

This sounds most likely. I think the Jedi Council sent Bastila and Revan onto the Endar Spire, which was originally under Carth's command, in a sector of space which wasn't heavily under Sith control. Being aboard a Republic ship that had minor skirmishes with the Sith would test how well Revan's new identity had taken root, and also lessen the chance of encountering Malak.

 

However when a few weeks went by and there was no forthcoming memories emerging from Revan's subconsciousness, Bastila received instructions from the Jedi Council to reroute the Endar Spire perhaps back to Dantooine or Coruscant to try to activate Revan's memories. Enroute, they were ambused by a patrolling Sith convoy which by the fate, had Darth Brandon on board.

 

By the way, was looking at this www.starwarsknights.com and wondering what this is suppose to mean: DARTH MALAK, last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan, has unleashed an invincible Sith armada upon an unsuspecting galaxy. That means Revan had other apprentices right?

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Most of what game tells us makes no sense at all. Yellow subtitles reveal that Malak was fighting over Taris with Jedi Battlefleet that tried to stop him. Later Carth says that they were ambushed and never wanted that battle. While subtitles

tells about something similar to last stand at Endor, with Jedi as the ones who are behind that battle...


HERMOCRATES:

Nur Ab Sal was one such king. He it was, say the wise men of Egypt, who first put men in the colossus, making many freaks

of nature at times when the celestial spheres were well aligned.

 

SOCRATES:

This I doubt. We are hearing a child's tale.

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Since everyone has come up with such nice, plausible theories, I have to be the devil's advocate. Conspiracy theory time!

 

Now, I'm sure more people than Vandar/Council/Bastila knew your identity. Remember the merchant on Korriban? "People talk" is his answer to how he knew who you were. "Three people can keep a secret if you kill one," right?

 

Regardless, not everyone could have been happy with the Jedi Masters' plan (which, admittedly, had gaping holes). They could have wanted revenge on Revan, or to prevent Revan from rising again. Someone could have leaked the coordinates and flight plan of the convoy to the Sith. Or, if it had been someone in the Republic fleet like Trask who knew what was going on, they could have neglected to remind the Council that there was a blockade on Taris.

 

Even discounting betrayal/vengeance from within, a Sith spy could have simply found the plans for a major movement of Jedi troops/Bastila and sent them to the Sith.

 

As for where they were going...Dantooine is most plausible. Tatooine is also an outer rim planet with a star map though, so perhaps there as well.

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They must have been. Even if they didn't know the Sith were occupying Taris, I can hardly see a reason to bring Revan and Bastila to an obscure Outer Rim world with no Star Maps. The question is thus: where were they going?

 

Important plot point: The sith WEREN'T occupying Taris before the Endar Spire went down. The only reason the Sith moved in was to prevent Bastila from getting away. They knew she had to be there because the escape pods crashed there. Bastila was the whole reason for the surprise attack on the Endar Spire, so when she escaped to Taris, they moved right in and set up shop hoping to flush her out.

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Important plot point: The sith WEREN'T occupying Taris before the Endar Spire went down. The only reason the Sith moved in was to prevent Bastila from getting away. They knew she had to be there because the escape pods crashed there. Bastila was the whole reason for the surprise attack on the Endar Spire, so when she escaped to Taris, they moved right in and set up shop hoping to flush her out.

 

Excluding what Sarna says, it is possible. There was an obvious time lag between the Endar Spire and when you wake up in the apartment. Though I gather from what Carth says it was only a few days, which is problematic.....


I made this half-pony half-monkey monster to please you

But I get the feeling that you don't like it

What's with all the screaming?

You like monkeys, you like ponies

Maybe you don't like monsters so much

Maybe I used too many monkeys

Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?

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