Oregon Police FireOnCitizens peacefully protesting

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

"Civil war in America IMO will happen in the next 10 years more then likely. "

 

Only someone on drugs would  that. There is nothing FACTUAL to back up your statement. None. Zilch. Zero.

 

No reasonable person would think what you think.

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People have been saying that for the last 30 years on and off. Thing is for mr and mrs average American they are living quite happily and in relative safety. More so than many other countries. Unless your a member of the disafected or you dont happen to getting your own way (which happens in democracies) then most people have more imediate concerns.

 

And of course the biggy which is there is a huge difference between whinging and actually doing something.

My own personal feeling is that people who are that disafected should bugger off to another country and see how long they last under a real dictator.

 

A friend of mine was shot by a rubber bullet when the Irish troubles were at their hottest. But no one forced him to be where he was and as bad as it was the soldiers firing the rubber bullets (which are not intended to kill but hurt like hell) cant exactly aim in crowds of 1000's which are not exactly static.

 

One major factor why you wont see a cival war is this. You certainly have enough people and weapons on paper. But those people hate each other with the same passion that they hate the government. Its like little tribes only without the common heritage that allows tribes to unite when something more threatening comes along and puts a stop to their "normal" infighting.

[Dakoth]

Ok this is only a post in reference to the firearms. There is no single gun that is labeled a cop killer, it is a round fired from a gun. It only differs from a normal round in the fact that it is teflon coated thus allowing it to penetrate a bulletproof vest thus dubbing it a cop killer.

 

Secondly any rifle can be used as a sniper rifle as it is the skill of the shooter and not the gun that makes a sniper. Since some of you want a gun for a possible anarchy situation I suggest a Kalashnikov(? sp) also known as an AK-47 they were built to take a lot of a buse and funtion in adverse conditions.

 

Do I htink you will need it? No but it always agrivates me to see things like what was mentioned happen. No matter how unpopular their veiws were they have the right to express them.

 

Edit: Even with the ban lift on"Assault" rifles that type of amunition will never be legal because it is meant for only 1 thing the killing of law enforcement people.

[Product of the Cosmos]

"Civil war in America IMO will happen in the next 10 years more then likely. "

 

Only someone on drugs would  that. There is nothing FACTUAL to back up your statement. None. Zilch. Zero.

 

No reasonable person would think what you think.

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People have been saying that for the last 30 years on and off. Thing is for mr and mrs average American they are living quite happily and in relative safety. More so than many other countries. Unless your a member of the disafected or you dont happen to getting your own way (which happens in democracies) then most people have more imediate concerns.

 

And of course the biggy which is there is a huge difference between whinging and actually doing something.

My own personal feeling is that people who are that disafected should bugger off to another country and see how long they last under a real dictator.

 

A friend of mine was shot by a rubber bullet when the Irish troubles were at their hottest. But no one forced him to be where he was and as bad as it was the soldiers firing the rubber bullets (which are not intended to kill but hurt like hell) cant exactly aim in crowds of 1000's which are not exactly static.

 

One major factor why you wont see a cival war is this. You certainly have enough people and weapons on paper. But those people hate each other with the same passion that they hate the government. Its like little tribes only without the common heritage that allows tribes to unite when something more threatening comes along and puts a stop to their "normal" infighting.

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Using chemical weapons agianst your own people(like in this case), and taking away their freedoms may have a bigger effect the you think...

[Child of Flame]

OMGAWDS!!!! John Titor was right!!!

 

 

 

 

Naw, I'm just kidding, I see doom on the horizon, but I'll just watch things play out until I'm sure.

 

 

The thing is Cosmo, in order for people to feel like their freedoms have been taken away, they have to have had some in the first place. That's why the government has been gradually taking our freedom away for a long time now. If they take few enough freedoms away at a time, no one but the 'conspiracy theorists' notice. :ph34r:

[Cantousent]

You're all right! The government, particularly under George Bush, has oppressed me! I have no rights. I can't even complain about the government or speak out against it in any way without being abducted in the middle of the night! I've been abducted, tortured, and summarily executed several times! OMG, how am I even here? Remember, big brother is watching you! Down with the gnomes of Zurich!

 

...Wait...

 

I hear someone coming...

 

please hel.....

[Gromnir]

you know, we not rubberneck when we pass a car accident on the highway, but we still occasionally read threads that potc starts... to our shame.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Judge Hades]

There is only one good way of stopping Bush. Vote for Kerry.

[Volourn]

"Vote for Kerry."

 

No.

 

He's worse x10.

 

Since the Dems were so pathetic they couldn't find a better one, the best way to stop Bush is wait for 4 years.

 

The good thing about the States is unlike a true dictatorship *cough* Iraq *cough*; if you don't like the current President in the US; just vote him out or wait until his time in office is out.

 

the way some people talk you'd think Amerika is the worst, most evil palce in the world. That is pathetic.

 

Come talk to me when Bush murders hundreds of thousands of Amerikans, threatens to take over all the Amerikas (like Saddam did with the ME); etc., etc.

 

Damn Saddam lovers. I hate 'em. :angry:

[Product of the Cosmos]

"Come talk to me when Bush murders hundreds of thousands of Amerikans, threatens to take over all the Amerikas (like Saddam did with the ME); etc., etc."

 

Saddam did with, you? O.o

 

And the Bush's have helped in the murder of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. Arguably millions. Don't have to be Americans to be human.

 

But apparently a lot of the time when your American your inhumane...

[Volourn]

"Saddam did with, you? O.o"

 

LOL

 

 

"And the Bush's have helped in the murder of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. Arguably millions. Don't have to be Americans to be human."

 

THE Bushes? Sorry; but his father doesn't count. And, no, comparing Bush's (current President) actions to Hussein is pathetic.

 

 

"But apparently a lot of the time when your American your inhumane..."

 

I wouldn't know. I'm not Amerikan.

[Child of Flame]

You're all right!  The government, particularly under George Bush, has oppressed me!  I have no rights.  I can't even complain about the government or speak out against it in any way without being abducted in the middle of the night!  I've been abducted, tortured, and summarily executed several times!  OMG, how am I even here?  Remember, big brother is watching you!  Down with the gnomes of Zurich!

 

...Wait...

 

I hear someone coming...

 

please hel.....

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And thank you for demonstrating the 'Laugh Curtain' that keeps everyone from believing any of this is true, even in the rare event it's covered in the media. (Skull and Bones story in Newsweek for example. )

[Child of Flame]

God help us.....

 

Without a Doubt

By RON SUSKIND

 

Published: October 17, 2004

 

Bruce Bartlett, a domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan and a treasury official for the first President Bush, told me recently that ''if Bush wins, there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3.'' The nature of that conflict, as Bartlett sees it? Essentially, the same as the one raging across much of the world: a battle between modernists and fundamentalists, pragmatists and true believers, reason and religion.

 

''Just in the past few months,'' Bartlett said, ''I think a light has gone off for people who've spent time up close to Bush: that this instinct he's always talking about is this sort of weird, Messianic idea of what he thinks God has told him to do.'' Bartlett, a 53-year-old columnist and self-described libertarian Republican who has lately been a champion for traditional Republicans concerned about Bush's governance, went on to say: ''This is why George W. Bush is so clear-eyed about Al Qaeda and the Islamic fundamentalist enemy. He believes you have to kill them all. They can't be persuaded, that they're extremists, driven by a dark vision. He understands them, because he's just like them. . . .

 

''This is why he dispenses with people who confront him with inconvenient facts,'' Bartlett went on to say. ''He truly believes he's on a mission from God. Absolute faith like that overwhelms a need for analysis. The whole thing about faith is to believe things for which there is no empirical evidence.'' Bartlett paused, then said, ''But you can't run the world on faith.''

 

 

Forty democratic senators were gathered for a lunch in March just off the Senate floor. I was there as a guest speaker. Joe Biden was telling a story, a story about the president. ''I was in the Oval Office a few months after we swept into Baghdad,'' he began, ''and I was telling the president of my many concerns'' -- concerns about growing problems winning the peace, the explosive mix of Shiite and Sunni, the disbanding of the Iraqi Army and problems securing the oil fields. Bush, Biden recalled, just looked at him, unflappably sure that the United States was on the right course and that all was well. '''Mr. President,' I finally said, 'How can you be so sure when you know you don't know the facts?'''

 

Biden said that Bush stood up and put his hand on the senator's shoulder. ''My instincts,'' he said. ''My instincts.''

 

Biden paused and shook his head, recalling it all as the room grew quiet. ''I said, 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough!'''

 

 

The democrat Biden and the Republican Bartlett are trying to make sense of the same thing -- a president who has been an extraordinary blend of forcefulness and inscrutability, opacity and action.

 

But lately, words and deeds are beginning to connect.

 

The Delaware senator was, in fact, hearing what Bush's top deputies -- from cabinet members like Paul O'Neill, Christine Todd Whitman and Colin Powell to generals fighting in Iraq -- have been told for years when they requested explanations for many of the president's decisions, policies that often seemed to collide with accepted facts. The president would say that he relied on his ''gut'' or his ''instinct'' to guide the ship of state, and then he ''prayed over it.'' The old pro Bartlett, a deliberative, fact-based wonk, is finally hearing a tune that has been hummed quietly by evangelicals (so as not to trouble the secular) for years as they gazed upon President George W. Bush. This evangelical group -- the core of the energetic ''base'' that may well usher Bush to victory -- believes that their leader is a messenger from God. And in the first presidential debate, many Americans heard the discursive John Kerry succinctly raise, for the first time, the issue of Bush's certainty -- the issue being, as Kerry put it, that ''you can be certain and be wrong.''

 

What underlies Bush's certainty? And can it be assessed in the temporal realm of informed consent?

 

All of this -- the ''gut'' and ''instincts,'' the certainty and religiosity -connects to a single word, ''faith,'' and faith asserts its hold ever more on debates in this country and abroad. That a deep Christian faith illuminated the personal journey of George W. Bush is common knowledge. But faith has also shaped his presidency in profound, nonreligious ways. The president has demanded unquestioning faith from his followers, his staff, his senior aides and his kindred in the Republican Party. Once he makes a decision -- often swiftly, based on a creed or moral position -- he expects complete faith in its rightness.

 

The disdainful smirks and grimaces that many viewers were surprised to see in the first presidential debate are familiar expressions to those in the administration or in Congress who have simply asked the president to explain his positions. Since 9/11, those requests have grown scarce; Bush's intolerance of doubters has, if anything, increased, and few dare to question him now. A writ of infallibility -- a premise beneath the powerful Bushian certainty that has, in many ways, moved mountains -- is not just for public consumption: it has guided the inner life of the White House. As Whitman told me on the day in May 2003 that she announced her resignation as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency: ''In meetings, I'd ask if there were any facts to support our case. And for that, I was accused of disloyalty!'' (Whitman, whose faith in Bush has since been renewed, denies making these remarks and is now a leader of the president's re-election effort in New Jersey.) ......

 

 

Read the rest of the article HERE

[Atreides]

God help us.....

 

[+ article]

Is that supposed to be ironic?

[Cantousent]

I shake my head in wonder...

 

Gromnir must be right. There's no arguing against this. In fact, the irony isn't that Servant calls out for divine aid... rather that he uses one of the hated mainstream media to support his position. Actually, I'm rather unsure about his position.

 

Okay, well, it's tempting to stare at the car crash, but it slows down the traffic. I'm sure you guys can continue to convince folks that we'll end up in a civil war if Bush is re-elected. Please, make a movie about it and torture half-truths into outright untruths. It should give Bush another batch of votes. *shrug*

[Child of Flame]

I shake my head in wonder...

 

Gromnir must be right.  There's no arguing against this.  In fact, the irony isn't that Servant calls out for divine aid...  rather that he uses one of the hated mainstream media to support his position.  Actually, I'm rather unsure about his position.

 

Okay, well, it's tempting to stare at the car crash, but it slows down the traffic.  I'm sure you guys can continue to convince folks that we'll end up in a civil war if Bush is re-elected.  Please, make a movie about it and torture half-truths into outright untruths.  It should give Bush another batch of votes.  *shrug*

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I'm non-partisan dude. But I hate Bush. I hate Kerry too, but he looks to be SOMEWHAT better. It's not that the mainstream media isn't sometimes relevant, so much as the fact they all have a hidden agenda. I don't believe there will be a civil war either, because by then, we'll have lost so many freedoms there will be no way to rebel. <shrug>

[nightcleaver]

Ok, this is really disgusting...

 

But it still can't be blamed on Bush. I sure as heck don't believe in him, I think he deserves to be washed out, and I can't imagine he's going to get any smarter with time. But I really do think, and see, that a lot of democrats have carried this business too far.

 

It's strange how weak the president has proven in all this compaigning. He can't stand up to a little noise? What the **** is he doing leading our country? And he says *KERRY* is weak. Maybe he doesn't call up to daddy or even Rumsfeld and his VP, but in this case he seems to have called up to his secret service.

 

No - maybe such "conspiracy theories" will make a handful of people turn even more for bush than they were, but no self-respecting and intelligent, or at least not republican, (not to draw a connection there) human being would decide to vote for Bush after this tasty tidbit.

 

Are you trying to say Kent state never happened? Perhaps man never *actually* has landed on the moon? Ah, right... perhaps the earth is flat. Well, hats off to you, Mr. Skeptic, because obviously nothing bad ever happens in the good ol' U S of A. Nope. Clean conscious - nothing. Morality shouldn't be touched upon in discussion, because it's apparently unlawful to do so. Need I remind you that morality - the idea of it, the concept of the "golden rule" - is very much a product of the human animal, just as much you are a product of your mother's womb or Coca-Cola is a product of the human mind and human "needs". "Denying" yourself the "human want" of the items you chose is as natural and a part of human nature, though perhaps foreign to yourself, as "giving in" so allegedly is.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Using chemical weapons agianst your own people(like in this case), and taking away their freedoms may have a bigger effect the you think...

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