UpdraftKyp Posted September 29, 2004 Author Posted September 29, 2004 Offering to work for free or low pay as an intern is another great route. We've been fortunate to work with some really talented folks who joined us as interns. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoah - Obsidian has/had internships? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> when they were Black Isle... and they do have them i thought...
olop the dwarf Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 not totally true. I'm working towards a design position by going through QA. I haven't had to sacrifice anything. I make enough to not only support myself and my wife, but to keep us in a beautiful apartment overlooking puget sound. The whole "starving artist" thing is pretty much hype. Well, I guess it depends where you live. Entry-level salary (from Game Developer Magazine) for a designer is 33-40k a year. In Puget Sound maybe you can support your wife on that. In Southern or Northern California that's practically impossible. And considering, that most people starting out needing to show "tangible" evidence of skill. They are probably going to need to put in 6 months of work doing something else, interning, mod development for free, or QA. QA is interesting because it tends to be hourly and if you are smart with your money you can make alot with overtime. But personally, I like sleep
Child of Flame Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 not totally true. I'm working towards a design position by going through QA. I haven't had to sacrifice anything. I make enough to not only support myself and my wife, but to keep us in a beautiful apartment overlooking puget sound. The whole "starving artist" thing is pretty much hype. Well, I guess it depends where you live. Entry-level salary (from Game Developer Magazine) for a designer is 33-40k a year. In Puget Sound maybe you can support your wife on that. In Southern or Northern California that's practically impossible. And considering, that most people starting out needing to show "tangible" evidence of skill. They are probably going to need to put in 6 months of work doing something else, interning, mod development for free, or QA. QA is interesting because it tends to be hourly and if you are smart with your money you can make alot with overtime. But personally, I like sleep <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe in Southern California, but in a large part of Northern California, $35k is more than enough for a family of five to live 'comfortably'. My family did it for years; on a four acre piece of property, and a four bedroom/two bathroom house. It's all about budgeting your money, and not spending more than you make. 90% of the people in debt these days aren't in debt because they're poor, but because they spend money they don't have on crap they don't need.
Sarjahurmaaja. Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 You're talking about $35k/year like it was borderline poverty? 9/30 -- NEVER FORGET!
Child of Flame Posted October 3, 2004 Posted October 3, 2004 You're talking about $35k/year like it was borderline poverty? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wasn't, everyone else was.
olop the dwarf Posted October 4, 2004 Posted October 4, 2004 You're talking about $35k/year like it was borderline poverty? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wasn't, everyone else was. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, it was just me. Having lived in Southern California and having had friends live in the San Francisco area, and considered relocating to Chicago and priced cost of living, and found it would be difficult to imagine supporting a family on 35k in those areas. It is certianly a fair assessment of my money situation, to say I'm not very good at it. Aside from that, entry level designers should be looking at a budget somewhere between 30-40k to start, with some sort of warm up period, either as an intern, QA or other job mentioned. Check the cost of living in the area and with your family, to ensure that you can support your lifestyle within that budget.
TentamusDarkblade Posted October 4, 2004 Posted October 4, 2004 i started doing contract text work, making roughly 20K a year. Last lasted about 6 months. I've steadily moved up the test ladder over the last 3 years and now i'm at 35K a year, which keeps both my wife and I comfortable. I'm not sure about the figures, but i think the Seattle area is in the top 5 most expensive places to live in the states.
Aaron Contreras Posted October 4, 2004 Posted October 4, 2004 I'm not sure about the figures, but i think the Seattle area is in the top 5 most expensive places to live in the states. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, not at all. Even the more expensive areas - Belltown - are reallyreally cheap compared to somewhere truly expensive. Seattle isn't cheap compared to your average boring-ass nowhere suburb, but it really can't compare to Frisco, New York or SoCal.
TentamusDarkblade Posted October 4, 2004 Posted October 4, 2004 d'oh, you're right...i looked it up and seattle proper ranks somewhere in the middle. It isn't up there with San fran, New York, or Hawaii. The point still stands that you can start at the bottom and work you're way up without that much of a financial sacrifice. I play games for a living and my wife stays home and keeps everything running smoothly. If the cost of living were more, then she'd go back to work. But at no point would i be suffering because i want to work in games. If people want to spot a downside to working in the games industry they could easily point at the insanely long hours, the fickle nature of "Game fans", or the attrition rate of studios.
Ferret Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 It seems to me there are two paths to becoming a designer. One is by slugging it through an entry level position and keep your eye out for a design job. Production tester, design intern, QA, or CS are the ways to go for that. I actually think with patience it's the route that is more likely to pay off dividends. It works best if the company you join has internal development and has a history of promoting from their own QA/CS/or whatever pool. Politely asking about that possibility in an interview would be a good idea (just don't sound over-eager). The other route is to get into mod making or something else that can make a name for yourself out in the wild. If you make good mods you can circumvent having to sacrifice years at entry level to get the gold prize right away. But I think this an all or nothing approach, because you've pigeon-holed yourself with your experience. The makers of the game you're modding are potentially the only people where you have a real competitive edge in getting hired. It works better for FPSes because many of the engines are used by several developers. Also, another thing to consider is throw a big net. Which means, send resumes everywhere you can. If you are tied to a geographic location, you're considerably less likely to make it in the game industry. Most of the successful folks I've known have moved around a few times (even if it's only from the Bay Area to SoCal). I don't think that's coincedence. A word of warning, though, becoming a designer is tricky even at the best of times. You have to have some combination of insight, personable-ness, and mystic spider "design sense" to get in and thrive. It's not for everyone. -Ferret
Diogo Ribeiro Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 In some companies, applicants just send in their resumes and then the people in the company put all applications into a brown bag. They then tie the bag to the back of a fast sports car, open the bag, and drive around town, which makes all the applications fly around. They then return to the company headquarters and wait for the angry populace to return the messy applications. The first five to be returned get the position.
Brian Lawson Posted October 5, 2004 Posted October 5, 2004 The first five to be returned get the position. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Haahaa Don't they wish!!
TentamusDarkblade Posted October 6, 2004 Posted October 6, 2004 what...you make them bare-knuckle box till just the last ones standing?
Commissar Posted October 24, 2004 Posted October 24, 2004 i started doing contract text work, making roughly 20K a year. Last lasted about 6 months. I've steadily moved up the test ladder over the last 3 years and now i'm at 35K a year, which keeps both my wife and I comfortable. I'm not sure about the figures, but i think the Seattle area is in the top 5 most expensive places to live in the states. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hate to bring up an apparently dead thread, but this post caught my eye...contract text work? What is that, 'zactly, and how'd you get into it? Sounds like something I could do, and would do, for that kind of money. I've been thinking about getting into editing for a while, since, not to toot my own horn too much, I've got a pretty good eye for grammar, continuity, common sense, and all those fun things. Also thought about going the technical writing route, since if you do that right you can end up hating your job all the way to the bank at the end of the day, but this contract text work (on games, I'm assuming) has intrigued me. Are you talking more about writing NPC dialogue and the like, or more along the lines of manual writing?
UpdraftKyp Posted October 24, 2004 Author Posted October 24, 2004 no thread is ever dead til shut down by mods....
TentamusDarkblade Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 it was a typo....i meant contract test work
Commissar Posted October 25, 2004 Posted October 25, 2004 it was a typo....i meant contract test work <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, crud. How do you get into that?
TentamusDarkblade Posted October 27, 2004 Posted October 27, 2004 it's actually remarkably easy to get into. Around here (the seattle area) there are a couple temp agencies that contract for local studios, with MS being one of the major contractors. I got hired over the phone with no prior games experience. Look into temp agencies in your area and find out if they have any game studios or publishers that they place testers with and then sell the hell out of yourself and how much of a gamer you are
astr0creep Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 I worked a contract for Ubisoft in Montreal, QA testing on this very bad game that Imust silence the name. During my time there they put together an internal contest for everyone to participate in, including us lowly QA testers. The contest was : Make a design doc. If the execs like it, your game will be picked up! The result, I think, was Splinter Cell. I worked for a few years at a QA firm. They were hired by publishers to do all the QA for there games, including pre-cert testing for console titles. Thats where I got to work for LucasArts and Pandemic, Jowood, Atari, Bioware. I had my foot in the door and I learned alot about the industry. then the work began to stagnate. QA was taking its toll on me. So I tried something else. Also, I was starting to build a life with my sweety... My limitation is that although I can write some very good fiction(from testimonies, not from my own ego) I never learned how to script or program. I was wondering if there are any websites or other places where aspiring game designers can submit their ideas or game design docs, similar to what already exists for movie scriptwriters? Also, although I don't consider myself a suckup, anyone here hiring for their company? http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/
Shadowstrider Posted January 27, 2006 Posted January 27, 2006 The closest thing to that is gamasutra.com, I think.
Wombaticus Posted January 29, 2006 Posted January 29, 2006 Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like trying to transition from table top RPGs to the PC and Console design? My interests lie in building plot, story, mechanics, and backdrop, and being able to concentrate on these aspects is important to me. I
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