I don't think it's a joke

[EnderAndrew]

You know, I'll cheerily agree there are plenty of people blame external sources for their behavior or that of others when they shouldn't. I think it's ridiculous, however, to argue that the media and such have little to no influence on anyone's behavior. There have been plenty of studies from all over the political spectrum to show that violent video games and movies and pornography really screw with people's brains. Just at a brief search:

 

http://www.corrections.com/njaca/LatestQua...s_adolescen.htm

 

http://www.dianarussell.com/pornsrole.html

 

http://www.dianarussell.com/pornsrole2.html

 

http://www.dianarussell.com/furtherfindings.html

 

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/yout...ndix4bsec2.html

 

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jun/3/children_tv.htm

 

http://www.troubledwith.com/stellent/group...ckground%20Info

 

http://www.clarkson.edu/class/tc310/groupd/Mass_Media1.htm

 

 

I don't think that watching a few violent tv shows turns "normal" people into serial killers, but I think it's a mistake to consider tv and movies and pornography harmless visual images with absolutely no affect on anyone who's not already crazy anyway. When you're soaking in the media (especially porn - orgasm is a powerful conditioner), it's not just bouncing harmlessly away from you.

I was never censored or shielded from anything as a kid. I was repeatedly molested at a young age, and had drug addicts for parents. I grew up in criminal surroundings, and watched the worst possible things. I've played violent video games since I was a kid, and had a fascination with porn at a very early age.

 

Despite all of this, I turned out pretty normal. I'm the only member of my family not to end up in jail, and the only member of my family to graduate high school. Environment and media didn't decide how I would turn out. I did. We all make decisions regarding our lives.

 

People like to use the outside world as a cop-out. Can it affect you? Yes, but ultimately it your decision to lead your life however you decide to. I love studies that show child molestors use pornography, thusly there is an inherent link between the two.

 

Pornography is quite popular in this world we live in. It's a huge industry, and child molestors are a small minority in the world. Next think you'll know, people might notice that several child molestors smoke cigarettes and suggest that cigarettes demonstrate a weak moral background that leads to child molestation.

[Phoenix19-15-5]

You know, I'll cheerily agree there are plenty of people blame external sources for their behavior or that of others when they shouldn't. I think it's ridiculous, however, to argue that the media and such have little to no influence on anyone's behavior. There have been plenty of studies from all over the political spectrum to show that violent video games and movies and pornography really screw with people's brains. Just at a brief search:

 

http://www.corrections.com/njaca/LatestQua...s_adolescen.htm

 

http://www.dianarussell.com/pornsrole.html

 

http://www.dianarussell.com/pornsrole2.html

 

http://www.dianarussell.com/furtherfindings.html

 

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/yout...ndix4bsec2.html

 

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jun/3/children_tv.htm

 

http://www.troubledwith.com/stellent/group...ckground%20Info

 

http://www.clarkson.edu/class/tc310/groupd/Mass_Media1.htm

 

 

I don't think that watching a few violent tv shows turns "normal" people into serial killers, but I think it's a mistake to consider tv and movies and pornography harmless visual images with absolutely no affect on anyone who's not already crazy anyway.  When you're soaking in the media (especially porn - orgasm is a powerful conditioner), it's not just bouncing harmlessly away from you.

I was never censored or shielded from anything as a kid. I was repeatedly molested at a young age, and had drug addicts for parents. I grew up in criminal surroundings, and watched the worst possible things. I've played violent video games since I was a kid, and had a fascination with porn at a very early age.

 

Despite all of this, I turned out pretty normal. I'm the only member of my family not to end up in jail, and the only member of my family to graduate high school. Environment and media didn't decide how I would turn out. I did. We all make decisions regarding our lives.

 

People like to use the outside world as a cop-out. Can it affect you? Yes, but ultimately it your decision to lead your life however you decide to. I love studies that show child molestors use pornography, thusly there is an inherent link between the two.

 

Pornography is quite popular in this world we live in. It's a huge industry, and child molestors are a small minority in the world. Next think you'll know, people might notice that several child molestors smoke cigarettes and suggest that cigarettes demonstrate a weak moral background that leads to child molestation.

d00d! I started laughing when I read the molestation bit because I figured you were joking as per your normal jovial self....you weren't were you.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear that mang.

[EnderAndrew]

It's no big deal. Anything that happened to me in my past, is in my past. I got through it, and learned to be a better person because of it. I consider myself lucky to have seen as much as I have in my life. I have a better appreciation of life because of it.

 

That's largely why I can laugh at just about anything.

[~Di]

EnderWiggin, wow, I'm so sorry all that happened to you. That you have moved beyond it and accomplished so much is a credit to your own inner strength and grit. Good for you.

[Magnum Opus]

links n' stuff

Run an internet search on "Holly Jones" and see what pops up as well.

[EnderAndrew]

Up until puberty I thought there was something wrong with me. I knew too much about sex, and that made me dirty. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I'm responsible for my actions, and my actions alone.

[Aurora]

[i was never censored or shielded from anything as a kid. I was repeatedly molested at a young age, and had drug addicts for parents. I grew up in criminal surroundings, and watched the worst possible things. I've played violent video games since I was a kid, and had a fascination with porn at a very early age.

 

Despite all of this, I turned out pretty normal. I'm the only member of my family not to end up in jail, and the only member of my family to graduate high school. Environment and media didn't decide how I would turn out. I did. We all make decisions regarding our lives.

 

People like to use the outside world as a cop-out. Can it affect you? Yes, but ultimately it your decision to lead your life however you decide to. I love studies that show child molestors use pornography, thusly there is an inherent link between the two.

 

Pornography is quite popular in this world we live in. It's a huge industry, and child molestors are a small minority in the world. Next think you'll know, people might notice that several child molestors smoke cigarettes and suggest that cigarettes demonstrate a weak moral background that leads to child molestation.

I'm very sorry that all of that happened to you. Nobody should have to go through that.

 

I'm also sorry that you have no understanding about how anyone could possibly be weaker than you in lesser, greater, or equal situations. People are all different. I am *not* suggesting and I *never* suggested that those who commit crimes aren't responsible for them and are just brainwashed little victims. They should very much be held accountable for their actions. However, I do believe people are influenced greatly by the media, and that it can often lead to, among other things, severe lack of empathy. I find things like this very disturbing.

 

(Or, you know, things like 11 out of 12 jurors deciding that a group of boys who gang-raped (orally, vaginally, with objects, etc) a *clearly* unconscious girl, with a video-tape as *proof,* are "not guilty" because the girl was a **** and all women really want to be ****ed.)

 

The studies that I linked to, in particular, were not about "porn causing child molestation." They were about violent media de-sensitizing children to violence, and violent pornography seriously de-sensitizing men (and some women) to rape. That's quite different from the Twinkie-link you're suggesting it is. And just because degrading porn is quite popular doesn't mean that it's okay or everyone who just watches it is quite okay. But I understand that this argument is pointless as anythng, so I'm pretty much done.

[Judge Hades]

I have to agree with Ender. We all have freewill and we can choose how we react to things, but environment does play a factor. For some its a large factor while others it isn't. Its just depends on your framework of mind.

[Aurora]

links n' stuff

Run an internet search on "Holly Jones" and see what pops up as well.

God, how awful.

 

I don't agree with some of the articles saying he was pushed into a frenzy and "couldn't control himself" because of the porn. Good thing he still got life.

[EnderAndrew]

I'm not saying that the media has no effect on us. I just think that our society is too quick to pass the buck. In today's sue-happy world, we're not responsible for our own actions, and I find that sad.

 

Maybe pornography isn't the greatest thing in the world. Maybe it's wrong.

 

But people start needing to look at actual perpatrators of crimes, rather than looking to see what made them do it.

 

As to being desensitized to rape, maybe the fact of the matter is that rape is far more common than many people like to talk about. They say that as many as 1 in 4 women get raped during their lifes times.

 

Either there are several serial rapers out there not getting caught, or there are a large percentage of men not adverse to rape. Is this because pornography programmed those men to objectify women and not see them as human beings, or is it because those men have eschewed morals to begin with? I've seen my fair share of pornography. I have to like the sight of naked women. That doesn't mean I fail to respect women, or view them as mere sexual objects. You take what you want from the experience.

[Aurora]

I think people do that already. Definitely not enough in some cases, but quite often, yeah.

[Judge Hades]

Not really, Aurora. At least not from my experiences here in Iowa and my stint in the Navy.

[Aurora]

It does depend on the situation and crime.

[Monte Carlo]

I'll try to find the link to an article in the UK's Daily Telegraph about porn addiction. Now, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. I believe, for example, that the death penalty is entirely appropriate for those who indulge in sexual offences against children. I completely agree with EnderWiggin that the foundation of responsible society is the individual accepting responsibility for their actions. Etc.

 

- But -

 

Some of the men described in this article spend up to twelve hours a day in front of their computers surfing porn, and without too fine a point on it, whacking off. They have, by any objective standard, a bona fide psychological problem and need help. A tiny percentage of these men will go on to become fully fledged, violent, sexual offenders.

 

This isn't revolutionary thinking. We can all agree that people should take control of their lives and actions but some people cannot. Now, if a guy wants to spend twelve hours a day in the manner I describe and doesn't harm anyone else then I, frankly, couldn't care less. I do acknowledge, however, that it is a problem. And by completely ignoring it we could be adding to the probability of someone eventually harming someone else.

 

This debate invariably ends up being hi-jacked by feminists, free-speech fundies, libetarians, trendy "porn is art" cognoscenti and all sorts of other positions. My own take is simply pragmatic: help the guy spending twelve hours a day looking a hardcore filth stop it before he ends up harming your wife/ daughter/ sister whatever. Capiche?

 

Cheers

MC

[Phoenix19-15-5]

I could probably qualify as an internet addict....not a porn addict but an internet addict, if you just looked at how much time I spent online.....the fact is though, I just have alot of free time on my hands, out here in the boonies, with my uber fast 36kbp feed, with nothing else to do.

[Tigranes]

I'll add to the voice of sympathy, Ender; and it's great that you could pull through. We can all say that it's not the situation, but the person itself; you're right, someone who did not have a strong sense of self would crumble in any situation, sooner or later. But it's worth thinking about, that perhaps a good childhood can give a person a chance to ready himself.

 

It's sometimes not the problem that you don't try to change yourself, either. I know that I am one, because everyone is; and when I notice others doing it it's frustrating and depressing; that you don't know what you're doing wrong, or what is happening to you, and despite fervent efforts by yourself and/or others to make you realise it, you can't seem to figure it out. It's like not knowing about something hanging over your head, sometimes even unaware that it is even there at all. You can't fix a problem till you see it, and if you can't even see it or know about it... what do you do?

['JN]

This debate invariably ends up being hi-jacked by feminists, free-speech fundies, libetarians, trendy "porn is art" cognoscenti and all sorts of other positions. My own take is simply pragmatic: help the guy spending twelve hours a day looking a hardcore filth stop it before he ends up harming your wife/ daughter/ sister whatever. Capiche?

If he comes near my house, I will help him by putting a bullet in his head. Until then, stop putting limits on what I can and can't do based on his actions.

[Monte Carlo]

Hey, thanks for proving my "hi-jacked by libetarians" point.

 

I'm sure life's just peachy up their in the survivalist compound, living on K-rations and scoping out Feds through the optics on your hunting rifle.

 

Meanwhile, in the Real World some of us live in communities where we give a **** about what might or might not harm us. Go back and look at the original post. It's about people who want to help themselves.

 

Do I think there is a point where intervention is necessary concerning someone elses behaviour and conduct? Damn right I do.

[mkreku]

Despite all of this, I turned out pretty normal.  I'm the only member of my family not to end up in jail, and the only member of my family to graduate high school.  Environment and media didn't decide how I would turn out.  I did.  We all make decisions regarding our lives.

Yes, we all make decisions regarding our lives. But what if some decisions were made before we became self conscious? If your parents always referred to milk as water and called water milk, do you think you'd do as them or take a decision to call the liquids by their correct names? If the world was as black and white as you suggest we would have no problems at all. Unfortunately we're all created very differently and a very small percentage can go through what you've gone through unharmed and (relatively) normal.

 

I went to a lecture once where they had invited a small number of women who had been abused to tell us about their experiences. One girl had been constantly raped from the age of three up until she was 15. Since she had never learned any other way and had no memories of a normal family, that was normality to her. So when she became 18 she became a prostitute and a porn actress. All her life she had only been treated "kindly" during the rapings and had been harassed, degraded and physically abused when they were not having sex. One would think that when she finally got away from her molestor she'd stay clear of anything like that again, but since the only time she had ever felt appreciated was when she was being raped, that was what she needed to "feel good". So the evil circle continued.

 

Another girl was so damaged she could not talk at all. She only communicated by singing and playing guitar at the same time. I don't think anyone knows exactly what she had been through, but her songs were all about how she had been the center of attention when her grandpa had invited all his friends over for a child molesting party. She was very petite and skinny, had to wear diapers because she had been so torn and sat on a chair in the middle of the stage with four huge guards standing in a semi-circle around her.

 

About gun control: guns are made for one purpose only; to kill. Whether it be humans or animals, they're all about killing. Shooting targets or skeet shooting are only derivatives of what the guns were originally made to do. If guns are difficult to come by, the crazy people are bound to do less damage if they go out of control. If you meet a psychopath wielding a knife you have a lot bigger chance of surviving than if you meet the same guy with an automatic rifle.

 

Sweden has one of the highest guns per capita in Europe and yet we have one of the world's lowest murder rates involving guns. Hunting has a strong tradition in Sweden so banning guns would be impossible. What they've done is put very strict laws around the handling of guns. Among other things you have to get a hunting license, which involves taking both theoretical and shooting tests. Guns have to be stored divided in two separate safes. Ammunition in a third. Full-automatic weapons are only allowed in special shooting clubs, semi-automatic weapons are only allowed to have 2-4 cartridges in the magazine and so on. No, guns don't kill people, but a psychopath with a gun kills people a lot easier than a psychopath without a gun.

[Karzak]

but a psychopath with a gun kills people a lot easier than a psychopath without a gun.

LOL, yea, oklahoma city sure proved that

['JN]

Hey, thanks for proving my "hi-jacked by libetarians" point.

 

Libetarian is not a word. If you are going to use stereotypes to make up for your lack of solid reasoning, at least give yourself the dignity of spelling them right.

 

I'm sure life's just peachy up their in the survivalist compound, living on K-rations and scoping out Feds through the optics on your hunting rifle.

 

Survivalist compound? K-rations? Hunting rifle? Got anything else you want to throw in there, or did Al Franken's show just go off the air?

 

Meanwhile, in the Real World some of us live in communities where we give a **** about what might or might not harm us. Go back and look at the original post. It's about people who want to help themselves.

 

Here is what you said:

 

My own take is simply pragmatic: help the guy spending twelve hours a day looking a hardcore filth stop it before he ends up harming your wife/ daughter/ sister whatever. Capiche?

 

How am I supposed to help them, aside from what I already said? Why is it my job to in the first place? Someone else was supposed to help them, probably long before they even knew what porn was, and they obviously didn't.

 

Porn doesn't turn anyone into a sex offender. It's just one step on a road that started long before it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that these people have bigger problems than just porn addiction, and that they are the driving force behind their perversions.

 

If there was a way to know who would turn out well and who would become a criminal, we'd be using it every chance we got. There isn't. The problem originates long before we have any control over it. All it comes down to now is us and them, and I choose to protect myself. Maybe you can scratch their eyeballs out or spray them with mace, just don't lecture me on the "real" world.

['JN]

About gun control: guns are made for one purpose only; to kill. Whether it be humans or animals, they're all about killing. Shooting targets or skeet shooting are only derivatives of what the guns were originally made to do. If guns are difficult to come by, the crazy people are bound to do less damage if they go out of control. If you meet a psychopath wielding a knife you have a lot bigger chance of surviving than if you meet the same guy with an automatic rifle.

 

Really? If the only purpose a gun serves is to kill, I am definitely not getting my money's worth out of mine.

 

You people have no clue what a gun is meant for or what it is used for, and until you get one, you have no business speaking on the subject like an authority.

 

Automatic rifles are almost never used in domestic crime. I can only think of one instance in the United States where a legally obtained automatic weapon has ever been involved in a crime.

 

Sweden has one of the highest guns per capita in Europe and yet we have one of the world's lowest murder rates involving guns. Hunting has a strong tradition in Sweden so banning guns would be impossible. What they've done is put very strict laws around the handling of guns. Among other things you have to get a hunting license, which involves taking both theoretical and shooting tests. Guns have to be stored divided in two separate safes. Ammunition in a third. Full-automatic weapons are only allowed in special shooting clubs, semi-automatic weapons are only allowed to have 2-4 cartridges in the magazine and so on. No, guns don't kill people, but a psychopath with a gun kills people a lot easier than a psychopath without a gun.

 

Your petty laws are not what is responsible for your low murder rate. Murder is often a crime of passion, and almost always has a strong motive behind it. You said that hunting is a strong tradition in Sweden. What kind of moron tries murdering someone with a hunting rifle? Most gun related murder involves a handgun. That's what your boy Moore and his buddies are always complaining about in the first place.

 

Guns, once again, are not responsible for the crime, they are a just a tool that a criminal uses to commit it.

[Karzak]

High murder rates are a side effect of diversity

[Arkan]

High murder rates are a side effect of diversity

That, or alcohol or female shortages.

[EnderAndrew]

Reviving Ophelia deals a lot with how society "programs" adolescent girls, and creates the issues they deal with. After reading this book, I am more sensitive to how a person can be influenced to certain types of thinking. I know women who are repeat victims, or who believe that abuse is what they deserve in life. I find this unfortunate. When a person is raped or molested, they are forcibly made a victim in that moment. It is up to the victim to decide that they no longer want to remain a victim in the rest of their life however. I am saddened that many people don't see this distinction and continue to live as victims.

 

There was a point in my life, where my parents shaped me quite a bit. My mother divorced and remarried a lot. There was one step-father around more than the others, but mainly it was my mother in my life.

 

Most of my parents were pretty racist. They used terms pretty regularly, that I would never use today. Some day the reason they were racist was because of how they were raised. Yet, I was raised by racists and try very hard to maintain an open mind.

 

I can't say that stereotypes don't come to mind occassionally, but I try very hard not to judge on the basis of race. Does that answer the milk question?

 

Back on the subject of porn addiction, I don't think the problem is with porn, but rather with addictive personalities. Yes, there is a problem there, and I hope these people get help. That's why I didn't partake in making fun of this website. Addiction is a serious matter.

 

Mkreku raises a good point about guns, but guns are a fairly unique case. Guns have no real purpose other than ending life. With so many other things, we blame the tool rather than the person. The tool itself is not good or bad, and can have many purposes. I know couples that use porn together to spice up their relationship and keep things fresh. A gun basically kills, and kills. I wouldn't compare gun control to porn control.