NEW WALLPAPER

[Ivan the Terrible]

Look at her legs, and how her torso is extended.

 

She's not going anywhere in a hurry.

Just as noteworthy: the look on her face. It looks like she just tripped or something, with the way she's staring at the ground rather than keeping her eye on her opponent.

[EnderAndrew]

I think this is a hint about what's to come.

 

KOTOR:3 will be called WWE Sith Lord Smackdown.

[Child of Flame]

I think this is a hint about what's to come.

 

KOTOR:3 will be called WWE Sith Lord Smackdown.

Hell yes. Bring out the chair sabers biaaaatch.

[JohnDoe]

Look at the angle of the sabers and her momentum. If she presses her saber against his as she falls over and rolls to the left she can stand back up by the time he turns around.

 

I can totally picture it. Georgie should hire me as a fight choreographer.

[alanschu]

"Ataris", "Arren Kae" or whatever her name is, seems to be holding the lightsaber way to 'lightly' to inflict any serious damage on the Sith Lord IMO. Other than that, i like it.

It's a beam of energy though.....she could glance it through him at a snails pace and it's still gonna hurt him good.

[alanschu]

It doesn't look like he's in much of a position to counter attack with the way his arm is. Plus since it is an aggressive move, to quickly counter-attack might not be as easy as it sounds.

 

I'm not an expert on sword fighting though, so I really can't say. For all we know she's doing a 180 and her momentum is actually backwards.

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

Look at the angle of the sabers and her momentum. If she presses her saber against his as she falls over and rolls to the left she can stand back up by the time he turns around.

I agree...but to take the analysis further, her left hand sort of looks like she is conjuring up a force power, maybe so she could force push herself out of the way of the saber, land on the pillar, and force jump to a safe haven to use her battle meditation...this of course only works if she's a guardian, and invested in battle meditation and force push... :ph34r: :ph34r:

[Sabahattin Dere]

this picture corroborates my theory that this game will feature a cross-over of two universes: The masked warrior is none other than Skeletor, and the white haired girl is Teela. We're going to have TrapJaw and Mer-Man as team members; one of the new planets will be Eternia.

[ichpokhudezh]

We can do lots of speculation about how this will turn out, but she has lost her balance, he has not. She would have to be better than him by several orders of magnatude to keep from getting killed.

 

On the most metaphysical side, if she's attacking with this much passion or anger, she shouldn't be considered a Jedi.

 

Galen

White-haired chick certainly looks rather off-balance to me.

Now a question to you as the MA-literate - how's this scenario: (M - masked guy, W - white-haired chick, C-column):

1.

M_C

___W (walks briskly with her lightsaber sheathed/off and on her left side)

2.

__C

M_W (turns lightsaber on and flicks it with her elbow and wrist as a distraction while she tries to evade him by rolling away from the column toward spectators)

 

Thus, she's not attacking and M is able to read and deflect the blow very easily.

M (it seems) cannot attack her right away so she might have enough time to roll away and cover her head after that.

[nightcleaver]

Look at the angle of the sabers and her momentum. If she presses her saber against his as she falls over and rolls to the left she can stand back up by the time he turns around.

 

I can totally picture it. Georgie should hire me as a fight choreographer.

Except that it was my idea

 

Chair sabers... hmm...

About like the idea of saber-whips, honestly.

 

Oh... and her gaze is most definitely NOT on the ground, it's at the striking point of both their sabers. Being a Jedi, this implies she's very determined to kill him, and possibly not terribly coherent.

 

She doesn't need to be coherent to make the best of it, either.

Also, this is star wars... they wouldn't kill the all-important good-guy like that

[galenbd]

White-haired chick certainly looks rather off-balance to me.

Now a question to you as the MA-literate - how's this scenario: (M - masked guy, W - white-haired chick, C-column):

1.

M_C

___W (walks briskly with her lightsaber sheathed/off and on her left side)

2.

__C

M_W (turns lightsaber on and flicks it with her elbow and wrist as a distraction while she tries to evade him by rolling away from the column toward spectators)

 

Thus, she's not attacking and M is able to read and deflect the blow very easily.

M (it seems) cannot attack her right away so she might have enough time to roll away and cover her head after that.

Very good description of alanschu's suggestion that her momentum might be away from her opponent.

 

The movement of her hair and clothes suggests otherwise, but on to the point.

 

This applies a concept I have run into in fencing. It is very DIFFICULT to run backwards faster than your opponent can run forward. Not impossible.

 

Even if she is retreating, she is off balance. As EnderWiggin, said she's not going anywhere in a hurry.

 

Assuming humanity as a basis, HE can freely advance with balance and intent. SHE must recover her balance to be reasonably sure of her defense. She still has a defense, but it is more based on luck or whimsy than application of learned skill. I know which I would rather rely upon.

 

Her attack may be a flick, not a weight-committed attack, but I don't see that in the picture. If I make a feint type of attack, I insure that if I need to retreat, I can do so in good order. If I must extend my balance, I choose to do so for an attack I feel I can succeed at, not a flick or small feint.

 

There are times when I do not pursue an opponent in a vulnerable state. These may be that my balance is off, my timing is not sufficient to capitalize on the vulnerability, I choose not to risk exposing my defense to make a movement in that instant or I may not have sufficient control of my opponent's weapon. The list is long.

 

If she were retreating with her balance intact, I would perceive that she would very likely would get away given your layout. However, in her unbalanced posture, I still maintain that she is so extremely vulnerable that the portrayal becomes unrealistic to ME.

 

That brings me to a related subject. nightcleaver suggested that the Force will allow her to perform outside of the bounds of physics. I agree. In my original post I suggested that I did not feel that all things should be bound similar to my mortal shell.

 

However, to enjoy this protrayal, I must be able to relate it to something I can understand. This concept is called verisimilitude. Defined as the quality of appearing to be true or real. This is what I strive for in my pen-and-paper roleplaying games. We know they're not real. Otherwise, why would we play. However, we need something we can understand. Most roleplaying games, fantasy and science-fiction alter , but do not entirely discard the laws of physics.

 

If a NORMAL-LOOKING girl walked up to me and kissed me on the cheek, I would expect her to smile and say hello. I would not expect her to grow 3 inch thorns from every pore, bleed rainbow-colored fluid and turn and roll away.

 

If I saw a picture of this monstrosity kissing me, I wouldn't be able to believe that it could happen. A similar thing occurs to me when I see this screeshot. I can't believe a person knowledgable in violent action would allow themself to get into this position willfully. She looks pretty willful to MY mind. Since the artist has failed to convince me that his reality is reasonable, I don't like the screenshot. I suspect the artist was not intending me as the audience.

 

I appreciate everyone's commentary on this subject. Thanks.

ichpokhudezh, I hope I have answered all your questions.

 

Galen

[Shdy314]

She is NOT ARREN KAE!! I'll rip your friggin' head off if you say that again... WITH THE FORCE!!

 

Or maybe I'll make it slow and agonizing, a Force Crush, miming the motions over your head with my forefinger and thumb...

 

.... BUT SHE'S NOT ARREN KAE! LOOK AT THE FRIGGIN WALKTHROUGH VIDEO MORE CLOSELY.

 

See him load the game? Good. Wait.

 

NO, WAIT, GO BACK! You missed it. The save game has the main PC's name at the top, who is Arren Kae. Does it make an ounce of sense that one of the character's you could play on the E3 demo was one of the NPC's in the game? No.

She's Arren Kae.

 

The thing is that demo is NOT Kotor 2. Its a demo. Just like screenshots show Sith in your party an NPC can be put in the PC slot just to show it off. Also the in game avatar and portrait look EXACTLY like you would expect the white haired chick to look in game. White hair with the bun in back. Sharp face. Of course Arren Kae is just too "Kotor name generatorish."

[nightcleaver]

... right. Too name generator-ish.

 

The in-game avatar doesn't look like I'd imagine her to look, and there's been a screenshot with a white-hooded character that I sort of took to be Atris, but I also remember thinking at the time that that should change. It looked like a baby suit or something.

 

Her bun is shaped differently. Look at the back, how it's set in a circle of pins. Also, I see a very distinct tinge of blonde, just as I see a very distinct tinge of cyan/blue in the "silver" lightsaber of the first PC, and couldn't see it being silver (unless it's a very badly done silver). It looks like saturation is missing from the picture, but I see yellow there. Her face is sharp, but that's all the similarity I see - and it looks like her eyes are darker, rimmed, and her face is shaped EXACTLY like female PC heads from the original game, and less so like her face in any of the screenshots I've seen. Is it any wonder it took so long for people to realize? I think people are getting too jumpy, looking for hints in a way that isn't normal. When I brought up the bit about the savegame showing the PC's name, and it said Arren Kae, it was to bring to everyone's attention that this whole thing was out of place.

I understand perfectly well that this isn't the real game - I've seen countless screenshots without a PC character in them for both KotOR's. Still, I'm fairly certain we're made to understand that these aren't PC's? I've never heard any announcement, seen any established comments that are about her. It's unreasonable to extrapolate that this girl is the white-haired girl, so saying she HAS to be - not that she COULD be - the white haired "chick", is totally unreasonable.

 

I do concede, however, that the portrait in the lower right has white hair.

[nightcleaver]

This applies a concept I have run into in fencing. It is very DIFFICULT to run backwards faster than your opponent can run forward. Not impossible.

 

Even if she is retreating, she is off balance. As EnderWiggin, said she's not going anywhere in a hurry.

 

Assuming humanity as a basis, HE can freely advance with balance and intent. SHE must recover her balance to be reasonably sure of her defense. She still has a defense, but it is more based on luck or whimsy than application of learned skill. I know which I would rather rely upon.

 

Her attack may be a flick, not a weight-committed attack, but I don't see that in the picture. If I make a feint type of attack, I insure that if I need to retreat, I can do so in good order. If I must extend my balance, I choose to do so for an attack I feel I can succeed at, not a flick or small feint.

 

There are times when I do not pursue an opponent in a vulnerable state. These may be that my balance is off, my timing is not sufficient to capitalize on the vulnerability, I choose not to risk exposing my defense to make a movement in that instant or I may not have sufficient control of my opponent's weapon. The list is long.

 

If she were retreating with her balance intact, I would perceive that she would very likely would get away given your layout. However, in her unbalanced posture, I still maintain that she is so extremely vulnerable that the portrayal becomes unrealistic to ME.

 

That brings me to a related subject. nightcleaver suggested that the Force will allow her to perform outside of the bounds of physics. I agree. In my original post I suggested that I did not feel that all things should be bound similar to my mortal shell.

 

However, to enjoy this protrayal, I must be able to relate it to something I can understand. This concept is called verisimilitude. Defined as the quality of appearing to be true or real. This is what I strive for in my pen-and-paper roleplaying games. We know they're not real. Otherwise, why would we play. However, we need something we can understand. Most roleplaying games, fantasy and science-fiction alter , but do not entirely discard the laws of physics.

 

If a NORMAL-LOOKING girl walked up to me and kissed me on the cheek, I would expect her to smile and say hello. I would not expect her to grow 3 inch thorns from every pore, bleed rainbow-colored fluid and turn and roll away.

 

If I saw a picture of this monstrosity kissing me, I wouldn't be able to believe that it could happen. A similar thing occurs to me when I see this screeshot. I can't believe a person knowledgable in violent action would allow themself to get into this position willfully. She looks pretty willful to MY mind. Since the artist has failed to convince me that his reality is reasonable, I don't like the screenshot. I suspect the artist was not intending me as the audience.

 

I appreciate everyone's commentary on this subject. Thanks.

ichpokhudezh, I hope I have answered all your questions.

 

Galen

Honestly, my original suggestion wasn't that out-of-whack, though it is original and probably extremely unlikely to happen.

 

Her momentum was towards hitting the Sith, but he dodged very slightly out of the way and deflected her blow as seen in the wallpaper. I see he has a direct hit, but it's not impossible for her to make the most of it.

 

I think her intent wasn't to do anything as well-thought-out with her current position as suggested by myself and other's here. However, whether she COULD do what we say or not is another thing entirely, I think. It would be fast thinking, and certainly out of the norm of what's done, but it would look interestnig and be effective - if she knew how to do it.

 

So, I agree there's some lack of realism.

 

I think she's lurching forward, and her momentum could be stopped or corrected relatively easily... whether she would or not, I don't know. I'm not saying she will do that, but I also imagine this fight lasting longer than that one stroke. It wouldn't be a hard stroke for her to deflect, even if she ended up on the ground or was imbalanced, but after that is thrown to the wind. So yeah, I at least see where you're coming from, but there are a few interesting ways for this part to resolve. I don't see, though you might, (and I'd like you to show me how, but it might be difficult given this context) how she couldn't stop her momentum, end up on her knees (lower than him, but in a defensible position) and roll or stand up. I'm sure there's reason for martial arts saying it's always a bad thing to lose balance, but I'm also certain you can turn any failure into a success - he has considerably little of her to aim at, and his ONLY option from here is to move away or try to ground her to the ground - in which case, it seems quite likely that he'd be wide open at the legs and lower torso area. Still, he might act faster and put her in the defensive, and she WOULD be grounded and in a not-so good position for a moment, but it wouldn't be hard (considering she's a Jedi - nothing too fancy here, and this is the kind of thing I meant about going beyond normal fencing physics. Luke did all sorts of leaping and rolling against vader, as I recall, and vader was a far more experienced duelist. You don't think that's too disturbing to your verisimillitude, is it?) to just do a roll out of the position and to her feet.

 

so no, I think it's an accident, but I'd really like to hear your opinion on what I just suggested - if at all possible. You are, after all, something of an expert, and I value your opinion as more accurate than my own. I just want to know if I was on to something.

[Shdy314]

The in-game avatar doesn't look like I'd imagine her to look, and there's been a screenshot with a white-hooded character that I sort of took to be Atris, but I also remember thinking at the time that that should change. It looked like a baby suit or something.

 

Her bun is shaped differently. Look at the back, how it's set in a circle of pins. Also, I see a very distinct tinge of blonde, just as I see a very distinct tinge of cyan/blue in the "silver" lightsaber of the first PC, and couldn't see it being silver (unless it's a very badly done silver). It looks like saturation is missing from the picture, but I see yellow there. Her face is sharp, but that's all the similarity I see - and it looks like her eyes are darker, rimmed, and her face is shaped EXACTLY like female PC heads from the original game, and less so like her face in any of the screenshots I've seen.

I understand perfectly well that this isn't the real game - I've seen countless screenshots without a PC character in them for both KotOR's. Still, I'm fairly certain we're made to understand that these aren't PC's? I've never heard any announcement, seen any established comments that are about her. It's unreasonable to extrapolate that this girl is the white-haired girl, so saying she HAS to be - not that she COULD be - the white haired "chick", is totally unreasonable.

 

I do concede, however, that the portrait in the lower right has white hair.

Bastila's avatar and artwork involving her as well as her appearance in cutscenes can vary greatly. In game you think the white haired chick is going to have hair exactly like for example the wallpaper? The engine isnt good enough to do that. The eyes were darker because the character was leaning towards the dark side. All the heads PC or NPC if the same species were the same so no surprise there.

In screenshots with Sith in your party and such I see no disclaimer clearly stating "This is not the PC, Sith troopers don't join your party etc." No one said she had to be. Its just fun speculation.

 

Oh you concede she has white hair? I hope you dont expect anymore than that from the ingame portrait. Your arguments are silly. Her saber doesnt have the right TINGE of color??? Her bun should be set in circles??? Based off concept type artwork that will not be perfectly and 100% accurately portrayed in game. And yet you accept the demo is by no means a polished final product of the game. Silly.

[nightcleaver]

I said she has yellow hair - the in-game avatar has yellow hair. The portrait has white hair. The guy in the first part of the demo doesn't have a silver lightsaber. I never said anything about HER saber.

Also, her bun IS in a circle, in all the concept art it ISN'T in a circle. This isn't just a matter of engine; it's plainly obvious that it's a different style because of the pins you see in her hair and how they're placed.

 

Proof that she COULD be the white haired woman (when she has yellow hair) isn't proof that she is, by any means, for the reasons I've said. It may seem to you I'm arguing that she isn't, but I'm not - just that nothing's been proven, and it's silly to say it is, by referring to the white-haired woman as arren Kae.

 

It's not unreasonable to speculate or imagine that she is, but it's unreasonable to suggest she is (outside of your head) when the dev's have shot it down. It's fun to speculate on the possibility, but I'd rather avoid stupid rumor's spreading.

 

 

When she has yellow hair, a face that is pretty significantly different, and no indication (I never said anything about them having to say it WASN'T blah blah character, but I did say they would announce her name if it were some sort of revealing of a character. Not PROOF, I never said it was proof, it's just common sense) whatsoever that this is the white haired woman. They released wallpaper the other day with her in it, still white hair, same style as always. Saying that, because she has a bun, that makes her the white hair woman, is nonsensical when the white haired woman has a different sort of bun bun completely - in a different style and a different color, no less. Perfectly possible, I suppose, but just as likely as having an orange twi-lek and calling THAT the white haired woman. Sure, the character could be transferred to an orange twi'lek, and there's no way to disprove it. When you start calling that orange twi'lek the white haired chick, though, you have some interesting problems happening. You don't know if it's the same character, you simply don't, so it's pointless to say it is.

 

 

Oh, yeah. And Bastila went through several character changes - Vima Sunrider, some other crappy name, and finally Bastila, which used to be Juhani's name. I'm guessing these different versions of concept art having something to do with that, and not just engine limitations.

[Shdy314]

I said she has yellow hair - the in-game avatar has yellow hair. The portrait has white hair. The guy in the first part of the demo doesn't have a silver lightsaber. I never said anything about HER saber.

Also, her bun IS in a circle, in all the concept art it ISN'T in a circle. This isn't just a matter of engine; it's plainly obvious that it's a different style because of the pins you see in her hair and how they're placed.

 

Proof that she COULD be the white haired woman (when she has yellow hair) isn't proof that she is, by any means, for the reasons I've said. It may seem to you I'm arguing that she isn't, but I'm not - just that nothing's been proven, and it's silly to say it is, by referring to the white-haired woman as arren Kae.

 

It's not unreasonable to speculate or imagine that she is, but it's unreasonable to suggest she is when the dev's have shot it down.

No one is saying she 100% is. Its just speculation. If youre not arguing against the possibility then what are you bothering posting about this for? Of course nothing has been proven. If it had there'd be no question.

[Akari]

The famous white-haired woman did not appear in the E3 Demo in any way, if I recall correctly. There may have been a character dressed all in white, but it wouldn't have been her, I don't think.

 

The woman with the yellow hair was the PC in the demo, using one of the many new heads that are being made for the game.

 

Arren Kae was a name Avellone asked me to set the female demo character to. Nothing more.

 

-Akari

[nightcleaver]

I'm posting it because you're arguing it. If I hadn't posted, you wouldn't have any idea that's what I thought right now.

 

Thank you.

[galenbd]

nightcleaver said

"...I'd really like to hear your opinion on what I just suggested - if at all possible. You are, after all, something of an expert, and I value your opinion as more accurate than my own."

 

First, as I said in my first post, I am comfortable with martial arts. Whereas I appreciate that you value my opinion, please do not take anything I post as expert information. I may have more knowledge in an area than you, but I am NOT an expert.

 

nightcleaver also said

"So, I agree there's some lack of realism."

 

In a forum that is rife with opinionated discussion, I see little of this. Thank You.

 

Now on to the good stuff.

nightcleaver also said

"Honestly, my original suggestion wasn't that out-of-whack, though it is original and probably extremely unlikely to happen." AND "I just want to know if I was on to something. "

 

You are. When I was studying Aikido, we used to do aggressive movement from our knees. It was an exercise to get us to realize how all the parts of our body moves when the center (belly button) moves. I have used this technique in a unchoreographed bout.

 

Given the screenshot as it is, she could drop to her knees, move her right hand above her head, elbow at a 90 degree angle and the blade running in line with her shoulders. I believe fencers call that Kent, but I'm sketchy on the terminology. That would allow her to be defensive. It's a good recovery for a screw-up.

 

I also agree that my verisimilitude would not freak about this recovery. In all body positions there are strengths and weaknesses. This position has the weakness that significant mobility is lost. The standing opponent is more able to maneuver her into a vulnerable position. That being said, I have won fights when my legs were (fictionally) wounded. However, I would not often initiate an attack that so overextended me such that this recovery is required. I personally have only seen this screw-up to occur when the footing was slick.

 

nightcleaver also said

...he has considerably little of her to aim at...

 

I have hit so many people in the head when they have leaned forward even 1 inch. He may have little of her to aim at, but it's a lethal little bit. Much of the key to winning is to not hit your opponent, but to cause their body to hit your blade. This most often occurs by placing the blade where they must end up. In this screenshot, the Sith could maintain the angle and position of his blade, but merely walk forward, raking the blade up her arm and into her torso. In doing so, he would keep his blade between his body and her blade. Always a good thing.

 

As a toss off, he has overextended his parry. He is defending a significant portion of air between his blade and his body. Speed requires efficiency which requires defending only the important bits. When my parrys get wild, I get (fictionally) dead.

 

Luke vs Vader... I don't watch fighting movies well. The movie Troy also caused me discomfort.

 

Galen